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Continuation Part 22: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Now, watch how this is done; you are partially correct. I misread what you wrote and thought you said the opposite. See? I can admit when I make a mistake. Try it sometime.

However, you are incorrect when you say it was "deliberate" and "wanton". It was a simple mistake which I have now acknowledged.

But you still have not listed the "five logical fallacies" of my statement. Please do so.

OK, fair enough. However, it didn't look like an error as you had done it elsewhere, too, within the same time period. You didn't apologise for the dig.

Five logical fallacies:

1. I've heard some sorry excuses

Logical fallacy = there is no 'sorry excuse'. Your saying so, doesn't make it so.

2. for not bothering

Logical fallacy = a presumptious comment designed to disparage

3. to quote things correctly,

Logical fallacy = 'if I say so, it must be true'. I take great care to quote things correctly. Oh the irony.

4. but that one takes the cake.

Logical fallacy = the conclusion doesn't follow from the argument.

5. If you would bother to take a couple of minutes to confirm your information and actually post accurate information rather than "from memory", it might save you a lot of embarrassment and everyone a lot of time.

Logical fallacy = state the opposite of the truth and hope no-one notices. I do take care to post accurate information. Nine times out of ten my memory is reliable. There is very little embarrassment and nobody saves any time at all.
 
This factoid used to be one of the favourites of guilters about 6 or eight years ago. Most guilters abandoned it when reading the 2010 Massei report - a report which ironically was written to justify the first conviction.

Even in convicting Massei wrote that Amanda kept to her innocence and her main alibi throughout. She'd been at Raffaele's, an alibi he confirmed. Indeed guilters had to attack Raffaele's confirmation of it, which implicitly meant that Amanda had been consistent.

Of course, the only variation on Amanda's alibi came during the famous interrogation - one in which she signed two confessions written for her in Italian legalese, in a language and legal idiom she had only a beginner's knowledge of.

But to Massei - it is strange that the canard "she kept changing her story" would be trotted out six years after the Italian courts themselves dropped that idea.

Then again, Nick van der Leek wrote that she had in his cut and paste book, and Vixen simply parrots that book. Note: by Vixen's own account, NVDL came to this case fresh in May 2015 and by the end of that month had his Amazon account suspended for claims of plagiarism.

It's not so the only time her alibi changed was under police 'interrogation' (careful choice of emotive word).

There is the call to Filomena at circa 12:11 on the morning of 2 Nov when she said she was at the cottage, but was pinged at Raff's.

In her email home in the early hours of 4 Nov, she claimed she had been banging Mez' door in a panic and had risked life and limb trying to look in Mez' window. Postal police said she appeared calm and reassured them Mez' door was always locked.

Failed to tell police she she was in the town centre between 17:00 and 20:30 at least.

In the questura claimed in several overheard phone calls to have been 'first to find the body'.

Claimed to have lost her memory as to what she did on the murder evening.

Claimed she couldn't remember as being with Raff was just one long event.

Kept changing the time they ate.

Kept changing the time of the pipes spontaneously dismantling themselves.

Had three different reasons for switching off her phone.

The list just goes on and on and on.
 
It's not so the only time her alibi changed was under police 'interrogation' (careful choice of emotive word).

There is the call to Filomena at circa 12:11 on the morning of 2 Nov when she said she was at the cottage, but was pinged at Raff's.

In her email home in the early hours of 4 Nov, she claimed she had been banging Mez' door in a panic and had risked life and limb trying to look in Mez' window. Postal police said she appeared calm and reassured them Mez' door was always locked.

Failed to tell police she she was in the town centre between 17:00 and 20:30 at least.

In the questura claimed in several overheard phone calls to have been 'first to find the body'.

Claimed to have lost her memory as to what she did on the murder evening.

Claimed she couldn't remember as being with Raff was just one long event.

Kept changing the time they ate.

Kept changing the time of the pipes spontaneously dismantling themselves.

Had three different reasons for switching off her phone.

The list just goes on and on and on.

For heaven's sake, you should take all these issues to Judge Massei. None of them as you list is a change of alibi, but still - Judge Massei settled it in 2010.

Then again Nick van der Leek would not know this because even you say he'd not heard of the case until May 2015. Now you are parroting non sequitors from him.
 
OK, fair enough. However, it didn't look like an error as you had done it elsewhere, too, within the same time period. You didn't apologise for the dig.

Please show me where I had done it "elsewhere, too, within the same time period." I didn't apologize, but I did admit my error. More than you ever do.

Five logical fallacies:

1. I've heard some sorry excuses

Logical fallacy = there is no 'sorry excuse'. Your saying so, doesn't make it so.

That is not a logical fallacy. There are "sorry excuses". They are illogical and untrue. For example, Mignini's claim that they didn't record the investigations due to "budget problems" yet they had the money to record 3 days worth of phone calls of Amanda and Raffaele and to secretly record them in the questura waiting room.

2. for not bothering

Logical fallacy = a presumptious comment designed to disparage

Not a logical fallacy. You don't bother because you believe your memory is "99%" accurate. That claim in itself is a impossible. No one has a 99% memory accuracy and certainly not you.

3. to quote things correctly,

Logical fallacy = 'if I say so, it must be true'. I take great care to quote things correctly. Oh the irony.

Not a logical fallacy. It was an error which I acknowledged when brought to my attention.

4. but that one takes the cake.

Logical fallacy = the conclusion doesn't follow from the argument.

Again, not a logical fallacy. The conclusion does follow the argument. No one has a 99% memory accuracy. If so, please identify them.5. If you would bother to take a couple of minutes to confirm your information and actually post accurate information rather than "from memory", it might save you a lot of embarrassment and everyone a lot of time.

Logical fallacy = state the opposite of the truth and hope no-one notices. I do take care to post accurate information. Nine times out of ten my memory is reliable. There is very little embarrassment and nobody saves any time at all.

Again, not a logical fallacy but a mistake. Once before I admitted to making a mistake. Have you EVER admitted to an error? Not that I can remember.
You do not post accurate information "99% of the time" which is proved by the many times you have been corrected in this forum with evidence.

None of your examples are "logical fallacies".
 
Again, not a logical fallacy but a mistake. Once before I admitted to making a mistake. Have you EVER admitted to an error? Not that I can remember.
You do not post accurate information "99% of the time" which is proved by the many times you have been corrected in this forum with evidence.

None of your examples are "logical fallacies".

Since joining this thread 15 months ago Vixen has confessed twice to being in error.

But you are correct - those are not logical fallacies. Maybe Vixen can now admit a third time to making a mistake.
 
Again, not a logical fallacy but a mistake. Once before I admitted to making a mistake. Have you EVER admitted to an error? Not that I can remember.
You do not post accurate information "99% of the time" which is proved by the many times you have been corrected in this forum with evidence.

None of your examples are "logical fallacies".

You think platitudes and clichés like 'I've heard some [XYZ] in my time, but [ABC] takes the cake' is logical rational debate?

I am a reader at British Library and when I research a book, article or topic matter, I seek out the original material, newspaper, book, microfiche or journal. I do not 'go to google'.

So your whole theory 'you never check your information' goes up in flames as the straw man that it is.
 
For heaven's sake, you should take all these issues to Judge Massei. None of them as you list is a change of alibi, but still - Judge Massei settled it in 2010.

Then again Nick van der Leek would not know this because even you say he'd not heard of the case until May 2015. Now you are parroting non sequitors from him.

Vixen makes several allegations against Amanda. With regards to her allegation that Amanda said she was at the cottage when speaking with Filomena when the phone tower which picked up the call covered Raffaele’s apartment. My understanding is the phone tower did cover the cottage and someone from this forum can perhaps confirm this.
Vixen claims that Amanda could not remember at all what she did on the evening of the murder. Where are the statements where Amanda said this? Vixen also claims Amanda gave three different reasons for switching off the mobile phone. Are there any statements for this? With regards to the time Amanda ate dinner, Amanda has always said she can’t remember the exact time she ate dinner as she was not keeping a record. This is dealt with in Amanda’s appeal for the Hellman trial :-
“According to Amanda the time they ate dinner was changed from 22:00 to 23:00. Amanda is accused of making the time later to add to her alibi and cover the time of the murder. However, Amanda has always stated she did not remember exactly what time they had dinner. Amanda repeatedly stated during interrogation the night of November 6, 2007, that she had found it very difficult to remember the exact hours of dinner and the movie on November 01, 2007. During her June 12, 2009 testimony, Amanda stated: “we talked, we had dinner, and we had not left the apartment. I had not looked at the clock. I am not able to tell exactly that time I did everything.” Amanda also stated that she did not remember the exact events of the evening very well, and said “I think we were making dinner, but I am not sure.” She was asked if they ate dinner after the movie and she said “I think so.” It is a very arbitrary assumption that Amanda attempted to postpone the hour of dinner for an alibi based upon her stating she did not know the exact time lines of her activities. Instead she recounted as best she could these normal activities that are repeated everyday and hard to be framed in a time line. It is a common experience that two people in love might prolong or have intermittent consumption of food, without accurate times”

Even if Amanda had difficulty remembering what she did on the night of the murder and details may change, how is this evidence of guilt? Vixen and other PGP expect people to have perfect minute by minute recall of what they did on a certain time and if the recall is not perfect, they have a period of time they can’t account for. The human brain does not work like a computer and people will have difficulty remembering details and likely to get details wrong. If Amanda and Raffaele were guilty and they spent time in the cottage murdering Meredith and they needed to account for this time if questioned, why is it that Amanda and Raffaele seemed to have made no attempt to construct a common story of what they did in the time they were supposedly in the cottage? This is an extract from an article called the unbearable thoughtlessness of guilt which deals with this :-

“The most obvious thing, the thing that anybody at their place would have done would have been to plan the cleanup of the crime scene for the following morning and, above all, conceive a story, invent an alibi for themselves for that evening.

This point cannot be stressed too much: if guilty they would certainly have spent the wee hours of November 2nd in planning a common, shared tale of their actions during the previous evening. They are clever, aren’t they?

So they had to imagine that they would have been questioned about their whereabouts on that evening and they would have all too naturally worked out a more or less detailed story of their actions.
Usually the weakness of concocted stories between accomplices is that they agree too much: the common error is that of working out too many details, of telling them with too much precision and with little or no difference between the two accounts.
While we can suppose that our clever and devious couple will not commit such a mistake, it would also be an offense to their intelligence to surmise that they will not at least agree about the basic elements of they concocted story or that they will not be able to say with certainty at what time they had dinner, when there was the pipe leak, when they stopped watching the movie, when they had sex and approximately also when they fell asleep.
Because if they are guilty they know perfectly that it is all important that their story appears believable, that it doesn’t change and that at least a timeline if not the minute details must be agreed upon and coherently repeated to everyone.
In this scenario Raffaele would have never told a totally different story to a British journalist (letting alone the possibility Raffaele misunderstood her questions and/or she misunderstood his answers).
But also, Amanda would never have appeared vague or shifting about the time of the dinner or about the pipe leak: they would have put times in their story, maybe not down to the minute, but certainly down to the half hour.
In synthesis: they would have had a better reciprocal alibi than the one they presented in the historical reality”

Vixen claims Amanda said she was in a state of panic when the postal police said she was not when they arrived at the cottage. The postal lied they had arrived at the cottage twenty minutes earlier than they actually did which was shown on CCTV. Officer Michele Battistelli lied that he had not entered the room when Meredith’s door was broken which was contradicted by two witnesses. Is the testimony of officers who were proven liars reliable?
 
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OK, fair enough. However, it didn't look like an error as you had done it elsewhere, too, within the same time period. You didn't apologise for the dig.

Five logical fallacies:

1. I've heard some sorry excuses

Logical fallacy = there is no 'sorry excuse'. Your saying so, doesn't make it so.

2. for not bothering

Logical fallacy = a presumptious comment designed to disparage

3. to quote things correctly,

Logical fallacy = 'if I say so, it must be true'. I take great care to quote things correctly. Oh the irony.

4. but that one takes the cake.

Logical fallacy = the conclusion doesn't follow from the argument.

5. If you would bother to take a couple of minutes to confirm your information and actually post accurate information rather than "from memory", it might save you a lot of embarrassment and everyone a lot of time.

Logical fallacy = state the opposite of the truth and hope no-one notices. I do take care to post accurate information. Nine times out of ten my memory is reliable. There is very little embarrassment and nobody saves any time at all.


Vixen clearly doesn't actually know what a logical fallacy is, though it appears that (s)he feels the need to utilise the term - perhaps in an attempt to feign academic credentials.

A logical fallacy is a one of a specific and well-defined set of philosophical devices where flawed logic is deliberately applied in order to lend false credence to an argument. The term "logical fallacy" (or "logically fallacious") is in no way at all synonymous with "false".

Vixen might care to peruse this handy pointer to the various logical fallacies. (S)he can hover or click over each icon to learn in more depth about each fallacy (and why it didn't apply to what she wrote.....):

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

On a wider note, Vixen might also require a timely reminder that in fact a) there is/was not one single piece of credible, reliable evidence that either Knox or Sollecito participated in the Kercher murder, b) there is sufficient credible, reliable evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Guede participated in the Kercher murder*, c) ALL the credible, reliable evidence is actually wholly consistent with Guede acting alone. (S)he still seems to be labouring under the misunderstanding that there's lots of good evidence of Knox's/Sollecito's guilt.

Oh, and it's "presumptuous", not "presumptious". I'm pretty confident that there are dictionaries or other English-language-related books in the British Library which give the correct spelling.


* If Vixen requires yet another education as to why the evidence against Guede was in fact incredibly strong - and his murder conviction therefore entirely safe and just - and how this contrasts dramatically with the total lack of credible, reliable evidence against Knox or Sollecito, I'm sure I'll be able to oblige. If I can be bothered.
 
You think platitudes and clichés like 'I've heard some [XYZ] in my time, but [ABC] takes the cake' is logical rational debate?

I never presented it as debate. I was stating my opinion.

I am a reader at British Library and when I research a book, article or topic matter, I seek out the original material, newspaper, book, microfiche or journal. I do not 'go to google'.

Why not when the trial transcripts, including testimony and the motivation reports, are available by googling? I did a search at British Library and the results for "Amanda Knox trial transcripts" revealed 0 results.

So your whole theory 'you never check your information' goes up in flames as the straw man that it is.

Hardly. The amount of false information you present here, which is proven incorrect with cited evidence by others, shoots your claim down in flames.
 
If only you believe in miracles...

Vixen clearly doesn't actually know what a logical fallacy is, though it appears that (s)he feels the need to utilise the term - perhaps in an attempt to feign academic credentials.

True enough. And yet, somehow, she owns a near eidetic memory, and is correct in her usage of facts and logic a reputed 99% of the time.

Count this as highly "special", let's say.
 
Vixen makes several allegations against Amanda. With regards to her allegation that Amanda said she was at the cottage when speaking with Filomena when the phone tower which picked up the call covered Raffaele’s apartment. My understanding is the phone tower did cover the cottage and someone from this forum can perhaps confirm this.
Vixen claims that Amanda could not remember at all what she did on the evening of the murder. Where are the statements where Amanda said this? Vixen also claims Amanda gave three different reasons for switching off the mobile phone. Are there any statements for this? With regards to the time Amanda ate dinner, Amanda has always said she can’t remember the exact time she ate dinner as she was not keeping a record. This is dealt with in Amanda’s appeal for the Hellman trial :-
“According to Amanda the time they ate dinner was changed from 22:00 to 23:00. Amanda is accused of making the time later to add to her alibi and cover the time of the murder. However, Amanda has always stated she did not remember exactly what time they had dinner. Amanda repeatedly stated during interrogation the night of November 6, 2007, that she had found it very difficult to remember the exact hours of dinner and the movie on November 01, 2007. During her June 12, 2009 testimony, Amanda stated: “we talked, we had dinner, and we had not left the apartment. I had not looked at the clock. I am not able to tell exactly that time I did everything.” Amanda also stated that she did not remember the exact events of the evening very well, and said “I think we were making dinner, but I am not sure.” She was asked if they ate dinner after the movie and she said “I think so.” It is a very arbitrary assumption that Amanda attempted to postpone the hour of dinner for an alibi based upon her stating she did not know the exact time lines of her activities. Instead she recounted as best she could these normal activities that are repeated everyday and hard to be framed in a time line. It is a common experience that two people in love might prolong or have intermittent consumption of food, without accurate times”

Even if Amanda had difficulty remembering what she did on the night of the murder and details may change, how is this evidence of guilt? Vixen and other PGP expect people to have perfect minute by minute recall of what they did on a certain time and if the recall is not perfect, they have a period of time they can’t account for. The human brain does not work like a computer and people will have difficulty remembering details and likely to get details wrong. If Amanda and Raffaele were guilty and they spent time in the cottage murdering Meredith and they needed to account for this time if questioned, why is it that Amanda and Raffaele seemed to have made no attempt to construct a common story of what they did in the time they were supposedly in the cottage? This is an extract from an article called the unbearable thoughtlessness of guilt which deals with this :-

“The most obvious thing, the thing that anybody at their place would have done would have been to plan the cleanup of the crime scene for the following morning and, above all, conceive a story, invent an alibi for themselves for that evening.

This point cannot be stressed too much: if guilty they would certainly have spent the wee hours of November 2nd in planning a common, shared tale of their actions during the previous evening. They are clever, aren’t they?

So they had to imagine that they would have been questioned about their whereabouts on that evening and they would have all too naturally worked out a more or less detailed story of their actions.
Usually the weakness of concocted stories between accomplices is that they agree too much: the common error is that of working out too many details, of telling them with too much precision and with little or no difference between the two accounts.
While we can suppose that our clever and devious couple will not commit such a mistake, it would also be an offense to their intelligence to surmise that they will not at least agree about the basic elements of they concocted story or that they will not be able to say with certainty at what time they had dinner, when there was the pipe leak, when they stopped watching the movie, when they had sex and approximately also when they fell asleep.
Because if they are guilty they know perfectly that it is all important that their story appears believable, that it doesn’t change and that at least a timeline if not the minute details must be agreed upon and coherently repeated to everyone.
In this scenario Raffaele would have never told a totally different story to a British journalist (letting alone the possibility Raffaele misunderstood her questions and/or she misunderstood his answers).
But also, Amanda would never have appeared vague or shifting about the time of the dinner or about the pipe leak: they would have put times in their story, maybe not down to the minute, but certainly down to the half hour.
In synthesis: they would have had a better reciprocal alibi than the one they presented in the historical reality”

Vixen claims Amanda said she was in a state of panic when the postal police said she was not when they arrived at the cottage. The postal lied they had arrived at the cottage twenty minutes earlier than they actually did which was shown on CCTV. Officer Michele Battistelli lied that he had not entered the room when Meredith’s door was broken which was contradicted by two witnesses. Is the testimony of officers who were proven liars reliable?


In her earliest statement to the police Amanda gave a precise time of eating : 23:00 or thereabouts. She spoke of blood on Raff's hand and the leak. Perhaps she wasn't aware Papa Raff claimed that when he called his boy 20:42 he was told the meal and the leak had already happened by then.

In WTBH Amanda changes the time to 21:15, at the trial she said it was 22:30.

She just can't stop lying, eh?
 
Vixen clearly doesn't actually know what a logical fallacy is, though it appears that (s)he feels the need to utilise the term - perhaps in an attempt to feign academic credentials.

A logical fallacy is a one of a specific and well-defined set of philosophical devices where flawed logic is deliberately applied in order to lend false credence to an argument. The term "logical fallacy" (or "logically fallacious") is in no way at all synonymous with "false".

Vixen might care to peruse this handy pointer to the various logical fallacies. (S)he can hover or click over each icon to learn in more depth about each fallacy (and why it didn't apply to what she wrote.....):

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

On a wider note, Vixen might also require a timely reminder that in fact a) there is/was not one single piece of credible, reliable evidence that either Knox or Sollecito participated in the Kercher murder, b) there is sufficient credible, reliable evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Guede participated in the Kercher murder*, c) ALL the credible, reliable evidence is actually wholly consistent with Guede acting alone. (S)he still seems to be labouring under the misunderstanding that there's lots of good evidence of Knox's/Sollecito's guilt.

Oh, and it's "presumptuous", not "presumptious". I'm pretty confident that there are dictionaries or other English-language-related books in the British Library which give the correct spelling.


* If Vixen requires yet another education as to why the evidence against Guede was in fact incredibly strong - and his murder conviction therefore entirely safe and just - and how this contrasts dramatically with the total lack of credible, reliable evidence against Knox or Sollecito, I'm sure I'll be able to oblige. If I can be bothered.


Stacy's fallacies are well-known logical fallacies. For example, 'and that takes the cake' is a non sequitur, as the conclusion doesn't follow from her sweeping generalisation ( = logical fallacy, sorry) that she's 'heard of some sorry excuses in her time'. Etcetera, etcetera. Perhaps you should try to understand your list, instead of learning them off by heart with little comprehension. Oh, and by the way, 'lots' is plural. It should read, 'There is a lot of evidence'. Once your grasp of English grammar is up to scratch, do come back and correct mine.


ETA And it's not, 'If Vixen requires yet another education', it's 'more or further education'.
 
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In her earliest statement to the police Amanda gave a precise time of eating : 23:00 or thereabouts. She spoke of blood on Raff's hand and the leak. Perhaps she wasn't aware Papa Raff claimed that when he called his boy 20:42 he was told the meal and the leak had already happened by then.

In WTBH Amanda changes the time to 21:15, at the trial she said it was 22:30.

She just can't stop lying, eh?

How can Vixen who habitually lies in her post be in a position to accuse Amanda of not being able to stop lying.
 
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True enough. And yet, somehow, she owns a near eidetic memory, and is correct in her usage of facts and logic a reputed 99% of the time.

Count this as highly "special", let's say.

I didn't say it was, 'eidetic'. That fact that I can pay attention, absorb facts and recall them from memory, makes me wonder why Stacy can't do the same.
 
In view of how Vixen has attacked Amanda for supposedly changing her story, how the police prosecution have changed motives/scenario deserves to come under scrutiny.

During the interrogation, Amanda was accused of covering up for Lumumba and this is the scenario presented in the statements the police prepared. She was not accused of covering up for Raffaele and Raffaele was not accused of taking part directly in Meredith’s murder only that he covered up for Amanda in his interrogation. The statements the police prepared made no mention of Raffaele. The police/prosecution claim later that Amanda and Raffaele killed Meredith together which completely contradicts the accusations the police made against Amanda and Raffaele in the interrogations. The police initially said Amanda was with Lumumba when he killed Meredith and the police later change her accomplice to Guede.

At no point in her interrogations was Amanda accused of stabbing Meredith and the statements the police prepared made no mention of Amanda stabbing Meredith. Raffaele was not accused of taking part in Meredith’s murder and the statement the police prepared for Raffaele made no mention of Raffaele taking part in Meredith’s murder. Despite this the police take a knife from Raffaele’s apartment and claim either Amanda used the knife to stab Meredith.

The prosecution have difficulty deciding where Amanda and Raffaele were at the time of the murder. The police used the testimony of Curalto who said Amanda and Raffaele were in a square at the time of the murder. The police are on the hand claiming Amanda and Raffaele were at the cottage taking part in Meredith’s murder whilst also being in a square away from the cottage at the same time. Mignini was asked in an interview how Amanda could take part in Meredith’s murder without leaving forensic traces. Mignini said she was directing the murder from the corridor. This contradicts the previous claim by the prosecution Amanda took part in Meredith’s murder in Meredith’s murder. This contradicts the prosecution’s previous claim Amanda stabbed Meredith.

The police claim Amanda and Raffaele staged a break in but for some strange reason the police never accused Amanda and Raffaele of this during their interrogations.
The police/prosecution constantly keep changing motives which consist of the following :-
1) Killing Meredith because she refused to take part in sex game
2) A drug induced rage
3) Hatred of Meredith
4) Theft
5) Because Rudy Guede did not flush the toilet

Vixen accuses Amanda of changing stories but then defends police/prosecutors who changed motives/scenarios.
 
In view of how Vixen has attacked Amanda for supposedly changing her story, how the police prosecution have changed motives/scenario deserves to come under scrutiny.

During the interrogation, Amanda was accused of covering up for Lumumba and this is the scenario presented in the statements the police prepared. She was not accused of covering up for Raffaele and Raffaele was not accused of taking part directly in Meredith’s murder only that he covered up for Amanda in his interrogation. The statements the police prepared made no mention of Raffaele. The police/prosecution claim later that Amanda and Raffaele killed Meredith together which completely contradicts the accusations the police made against Amanda and Raffaele in the interrogations. The police initially said Amanda was with Lumumba when he killed Meredith and the police later change her accomplice to Guede.

At no point in her interrogations was Amanda accused of stabbing Meredith and the statements the police prepared made no mention of Amanda stabbing Meredith. Raffaele was not accused of taking part in Meredith’s murder and the statement the police prepared for Raffaele made no mention of Raffaele taking part in Meredith’s murder. Despite this the police take a knife from Raffaele’s apartment and claim either Amanda used the knife to stab Meredith.

The prosecution have difficulty deciding where Amanda and Raffaele were at the time of the murder. The police used the testimony of Curalto who said Amanda and Raffaele were in a square at the time of the murder. The police are on the hand claiming Amanda and Raffaele were at the cottage taking part in Meredith’s murder whilst also being in a square away from the cottage at the same time. Mignini was asked in an interview how Amanda could take part in Meredith’s murder without leaving forensic traces. Mignini said she was directing the murder from the corridor. This contradicts the previous claim by the prosecution Amanda took part in Meredith’s murder in Meredith’s murder. This contradicts the prosecution’s previous claim Amanda stabbed Meredith.

The police claim Amanda and Raffaele staged a break in but for some strange reason the police never accused Amanda and Raffaele of this during their interrogations.
The police/prosecution constantly keep changing motives which consist of the following :-
1) Killing Meredith because she refused to take part in sex game
2) A drug induced rage
3) Hatred of Meredith
4) Theft
5) Because Rudy Guede did not flush the toilet

Vixen accuses Amanda of changing stories but then defends police/prosecutors who changed motives/scenarios.

The police simply collate the evidence surrounding the case. As of the time the body is found, zero information is known, so in effect, it is a constantly developing situation, until such time there is enough to pass the dossier over to the prosecutor's office, and it is this office that assesses whether there is adequate cause to bring a prosecution.

It is for the court to decide motive - although the prosecutor is expected to provide a probable scenario - and Massei decided it was 'futile motive' and that the pair 'made a choice for evil'.

People do evil nasty things for no reason, especially sociopaths and those with anti-social behaviour disorders.
 
Welshman wrote "Vixen makes several allegations against Amanda. With regards to her allegation that Amanda said she was at the cottage when speaking with Filomena when the phone tower which picked up the call covered Raffaele’s apartment. My understanding is the phone tower did cover the cottage and someone from this forum can perhaps confirm this. "

The BEST cell phone tower to cover 7 via della Pergola was the Piazza Lupatelli tower. However, according to the testimony of these Vodaphone engineers, the cottage was also able to connect to the same tower that covered Raffaele's apartment.


· 12:07:12 Knox calls Meredith's phone with UK number (16 seconds).
Time from phone records on Amanda Knox page.
(cell Eagle Street 5-Torre sett.9 Aqueduct) Massei Report pg 346
(note: Eagle is a translation of Aquila)

12:08:44 Knox call Filomena Romanelli (68 seconds).
From Knox phone records.
(cell 5-Torre dell'Aquila Via Aqueduct sett.3) - Massei Report pg 346

Testimony of Vodaphone Employee – Luca Fioravanti

"...the so called best server cell was the one located at Piazza Lupatelli, however Via Della Pergola is also within….
Question – Are we speaking of the Vodaphone cell?
Answer – Yes, Vodaphone, exactly. While, lets say, Via Della Pergola is also served by other cells that are at Piazza Forte Braccio, Via Dell Aquila number 5 and Via Berardi and this a client that is at Via Della Pergola had the possibility of connecting to one of these cells."

Vodaphone Employee – Sonia Cieri

"It is the best server for the address of Via Pergola 7, but the sufficient level in order to allow conversations for that address is offered from all six of the cells of Piazza Lupatelli and also from the two cells at Piazza Forte Braccio, of the six cells of Via Dell Acquila and from the station at via Berardi,
 
Stacy's fallacies are well-known logical fallacies.


False. They are not logical fallacies at all as shown. Your simply stating they are does not make them so.



For example, 'and that takes the cake' is a non sequitur, as the conclusion doesn't follow from her sweeping generalisation ( = logical fallacy, sorry) that she's 'heard of some sorry excuses in her time'. Etcetera, etcetera.

Once again, that is not a logical fallacy. It is an opinion as I stated. You cannot know what excuses I've heard, therefore you cannot know if yours "takes the cake" or not.
 
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