Split Thread Signs of the End Times

[Paul Bethke]

I wonder if you realize that you have just claimed to be over 2000 years old...

But have I not spent enough time with you explaining that prophecy does not lose its potency—(Rev_19:10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
You see SV the words of Jesus are prophetic, meaning that they are there for all time to be fulfilled.

Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

 

[Craig B]

But have I not spent enough time with you explaining that prophecy does not lose its potency—(Rev_19:10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
You see SV the words of Jesus are prophetic, meaning that they are there for all time to be fulfilled.

Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

But he who states that a thing will "shortly come to pass" and then it doesn't happen for 2000 years; lo he is a crap prophet.

 

[Border Reiver]

Yes I did predict that I would be instrumental in the withering grass saga—now that did not happen, the reason being that I predicted prematurely, not realising that there was another issue of greater importance that needed to be accomplished first.



So 2010 has come and gone with no withering having taken place, but the more important issue is still in progress.



So if at a later stage just for the sake of accomplishment the withering takes place at a later stage, surely the spectacular event can be seen as a postponement.



You see I made the withering grass a focus point and now it has been revealed that the purging of the Church is of greater importance at this stage. So until the purging of the Church takes place all other demonstrations are in limbo.

I see you have not actually answered the question asked in favour of the question you had wanted asked.

You failed a lot of tests in school didn't you?

 

[abaddon]

Nothing has changed the Ten Commandments that Scripture is based on stays the same. A man may have sex with a prostitute and be forgiven—but the prostitute is not forgiven, until she repents and abstains from sex.---Jesus stated that with the woman taken in adultery---John 8:11 "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."
But now a man who has sex with a virgin and does not remain her husband is committing adultery—and if he seeks forgiveness then he must abstain from sex, and remain celibate.

You see it works both ways---the Day of the LORD is coming where all will needs give account of their marital status.

The Ten Commandments are the foundation of the Scriptures, upon which all people will be judged.

Until he deflowers the next virgin. According to you. Let's face it. In Bethke world, women may never be forgiven for even a single offence. Men may be forgiven for as many as they wish so long as they follow the extra-biblical rules you have arbitrarily set up.

 

[Paul Bethke]

But he who states that a thing will "shortly come to pass" and then it doesn't happen for 2000 years; lo he is a crap prophet.

Well there may be things or people who prevent this from happening, as Paul states--1Thes_2:18 For we wanted to come to you—certainly I, Paul, did, again and again—but Satan stopped us.

So it appears that Satan has certain powers that can prevent God from carrying out his plan, because those plans involve men who can be stopped by Satan. So until man is in a stronger position to overcome Satan then the plan of God can be achieved.

At the present it seems that the devil is in control---1John 5:19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

 

[Paul Bethke]

I see you have not actually answered the question asked in favour of the question you had wanted asked.

You failed a lot of tests in school didn't you?

Now you want to know what I did at school?

 

[Paul Bethke]

Until he deflowers the next virgin. According to you. Let's face it. In Bethke world, women may never be forgiven for even a single offence. Men may be forgiven for as many as they wish so long as they follow the extra-biblical rules you have arbitrarily set up.

You categorically get the truth all mixed up--you seem to be a very confused person!!

 

[Craig B]

Well there may be things or people who prevent this from happening, as Paul states--1Thes_2:18 For we wanted to come to you—certainly I, Paul, did, again and again—but Satan stopped us.

Well, if we consider 1 Thessalonians

4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17 After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.​

Paul got that one wrong. He died, and by the time he died, the Lord had not yet returned. So Satan must have bumped him off to prevent him being alive at the Lord's descent from heaven. However, 2000 years have passed, billions of people have died, and the Lord hasn't yet appeared.

Very poor standards of prophecy altogether, I think.

 

[Jodie]

Nothing has changed the Ten Commandments that Scripture is based on stays the same. A man may have sex with a prostitute and be forgiven—but the prostitute is not forgiven, until she repents and abstains from sex.---Jesus stated that with the woman taken in adultery---John 8:11 "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."
But now a man who has sex with a virgin and does not remain her husband is committing adultery—and if he seeks forgiveness then he must abstain from sex, and remain celibate.

You see it works both ways---the Day of the LORD is coming where all will needs give account of their marital status.

The Ten Commandments are the foundation of the Scriptures, upon which all people will be judged.

"Leave your life in sin" means don't be a prostitute. Forgiveness is forgiveness of sin of any kind, as you interpret it, but it doesn't come with these caveats that you've added to it. Your changing scripture to suit your POV so that makes you a false profit according to the bible.

 

[abaddon]

Well there may be things or people who prevent this from happening, as Paul states--1Thes_2:18 For we wanted to come to you—certainly I, Paul, did, again and again—but Satan stopped us.

So it appears that Satan has certain powers that can prevent God from carrying out his plan, because those plans involve men who can be stopped by Satan. So until man is in a stronger position to overcome Satan then the plan of God can be achieved.

At the present it seems that the devil is in control---1John 5:19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

Are you now claiming that satan is more powerful than your god? satan can do whatever he likes and there is nothing your god can do about it? How inneffectual is your god?

 

[abaddon]

Well there may be things or people who prevent this from happening, as Paul states--1Thes_2:18 For we wanted to come to you—certainly I, Paul, did, again and again—but Satan stopped us.

So it appears that Satan has certain powers that can prevent God from carrying out his plan, because those plans involve men who can be stopped by Satan. So until man is in a stronger position to overcome Satan then the plan of God can be achieved.

At the present it seems that the devil is in control---1John 5:19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

And again, satan is more powerful than god. Why is god such a weakling?

 

[Craig4]

A man who has sex with a promiscuous woman can be forgiven—but the woman can only be forgiven if she abstains from sex. That should be clear to you now!!

You know, your god is really a complete pervert. Having this much interest in what consenting adults do in their bedrooms is really sexually deviant behavior on his part. He really needs to seek help to control his maladaptive behaviors.

 

[Border Reiver]

Now you want to know what I did at school?

You have missed the point. I noted that you answered a different question than what had been asked - again. I then made a rather sarcastic observation that if you answered that way in school you'd get a lot of wrong answers.

 

[Jodie]

None are so blind as those that will not see.

 

[Meadmaker]

Your case is not unique, and is part of what has to be dealt with. I have dealt with many men who have had casual sex with girls who are not virgins, this is the state of the world today.

It is the state of the world as it has always been. To be fair, it happens in much greater numbers now than in ancient times. People don't get stoned to death as often as they once did for this sort of thing and, more importantly, we have birth control, so casual sex is a lot more common today than it once was, but it isn't a new thing.

The problem with your theology, whether applied in Biblical times or today, is that you would assert that God demands people live in misery. Let's take my situation.

Once, some decades ago, I had sex with a virgin young woman named Laura. That means we were married in the eyes of the Lord, according to your teachings. Ok. All well and good so far. Then, I abandoned her. I ran off to another state, and not too long after to another woman. This makes me an adulterer and one upon whom God might pour out his wrath. Ok. Fine. I hope you are wrong, but I won't say there's anything inherently ridiculous about that belief.

But what of Laura? Having been abandoned, the only way that she can live a life free of sin is, apparently, to live a life free of sex. She must spend her days unloved and childless, all because at age 18 some cad took her maidenhead and kissed her goodbye? Now she must live alone, or hunt me down and kill me, or spend eternity in a lake of fire. Do you really think God wants that, or that the Bible demands it?

The commandments and passages you have cited from the Bible demand that a man not do what I did. If there is divine retribution in store, I have clearly earned it. But Laura? To punish her for my actions would be cruel, and I have never heard a believer insist that God is cruel.

And in my particular case I was up front about my intentions, and she went to bed with me anyway, so maybe she was a little slut who deserves her lake of fire. On the other hand, she would have continued the relationship, even at a long distance, if I had been willing, so that ought to count for something. Regardless, for every Laura in the world, there are plenty of others to whom men pledged undying love in order to get them into bed, and either changed their mind later, or possibly never intended to keep that promise in the first place. Shall those women who suffered so much at the hands of the cads they fell in love with suffer even more at the hands of God?

No one who gives it a moments thought would agree, and nowhere can you find a passage in the Bible that demands it.

 

[Craig4]

Your case is not unique, and is part of what has to be dealt with. I have dealt with many men who have had casual sex with girls who are not virgins, this is the state of the world today.

So what if they're both consenting adults and managing any potential risks of STDs or unwanted pregnancy by mutual agreement? I can't see where it's any of your business if that's what people want to do.

 

[Slowvehicle]

"Leave your life in sin" means don't be a prostitute. Forgiveness is forgiveness of sin of any kind, as you interpret it, but it doesn't come with these caveats that you've added to it. Your changing scripture to suit your POV so that makes you a false profit according to the bible.

Oh, noes! Say it isn't so...

 

[crazycat]

I don't agree with your interpretation of scripture. Thou shalt not commit adultery applies to both men and women. That said, these laws were written before birth control and genetic testing was invented. The Jewish identity is passed down through the mother so this is why it is written this particular way.

There is a lot of contradiction in the scriptures so you should read them from the context of the age when they were written. You need to also take into consideration that things were changed and added to the bible over time, another reason for the contradictions you'll find in the scriptures.

God apparently didn't know any more about human reproduction than did the humans during Biblical times. When a couple had sex, man released his "seed". Women didn't contribute anything except being a field in which to grow the seed. People soon learned that plant seeds could last for years and assumed the same thing about human "seed". Once a woman had sex with a man, his "seed" could lie dormant in her for years. No one could be sure who her future children's father was. Hence the maniacal insistence on female purity.

Actually this line of thought lasted up until at least the 20th century in some places.

Now, you would think that God would know better, him having invented it all. It would have been easy enough for him to note that man's "seed" only lasts a few days and to add something to the purity laws to address any pregnancy that occurred after a rape or mistake by the girl and to have her ritually purified and therefore eligible for marriage again. Or he could have mentioned that women have "seeds" also.

 

[Meadmaker]

Actually this line of thought lasted up until at least the 20th century in some places.

Maybe longer. I remember a case a few years ago (maybe 10 or so, but not more than that, I think) in which a woman in one of those barbaric countries where sharia law is practiced was to be put to death. (Nigeria, maybe? Definitely Africa.) Her crime was adultery. She had not been living with her husband for several years, and she was pregnant. Therefore, she was an adultress, and would be executed.

It turns out, though, that the Koran says it is possible for the seed to lay dormant, and her defense lawyers were appealing on the grounds that it was possible for such a thing to happen, as it says in the Koran.

I don't know how the case turned out. I think it is absolutely clear that her lawyers didn't believe it, but they were daring a Sharia court to deny the validity of the Koran.

It's disgusting that people could actually pass such a sentence.

ETA: Wikipedia article on the case. She lived.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amina_Lawal

 

[crazycat]

Maybe longer. I remember a case a few years ago (maybe 10 or so, but not more than that, I think) in which a woman in one of those barbaric countries where sharia law is practiced was to be put to death. (Nigeria, maybe? Definitely Africa.) Her crime was adultery. She had not been living with her husband for several years, and she was pregnant. Therefore, she was an adultress, and would be executed.

It turns out, though, that the Koran says it is possible for the seed to lay dormant, and her defense lawyers were appealing on the grounds that it was possible for such a thing to happen, as it says in the Koran.

I don't know how the case turned out. I think it is absolutely clear that her lawyers didn't believe it, but they were daring a Sharia court to deny the validity of the Koran.

It's disgusting that people could actually pass such a sentence.

ETA: Wikipedia article on the case. She lived.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amina_Lawal

I don't know whether to laugh (she wasn't killed) or cry (because of such a contrary to biology reason.) Sigh.

This lack of knowledge of reproduction was the final straw that lead me to realize that the Bible is written by people about God, not God writing through people.