Continuation Part 22: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Problems with the knife/DNA Part 2
• In the Nencini trial prosecutor Crini lied that the knife matched the bloody imprint a claim the prosecution had not made before. If the knife knife/DNA evidence was valid why is that six years after Meredith’s murder, the prosecution had to resort to lying to make the knife/DNA evidence appear valid? Does this not indicate the knife/DNA evidence had numerous flaws and no credibility and the only way the prosecution could make the appear valid was through lying.


The odds are billions to one against it was not the murder weapon. There is no way Mez' DNA could appear by magic. She had never been to Raff's home and the police who collected it were a completely different team than the ones at the cottage.

• Vixen and Machiavelli have constantly described C&V as incompetent clueless buffoons with zero expertise in DNA. C&V ripped Stefanoni’s work to shreds. If the DNA on the knife was so solid and there was nothing wrong with Stefanoni’s work, how were a pair of idiots able to find so many faults in Stefanoni’s work?

They make a lucrative living being hired guns for criminal defence. You can get these people to say anything for a fee.

• If Amanda and Raffaele had used the knife to kill Meredith, why did they have no objection to the knife being opened whilst the prosecution did not want the knife opened?

It was enough Mez' DNA was on the blade and the knife was compatible with the wound. This is conterminous with hundreds of other pieces of evidence.

• Vixen lied in her post saying that there were 15 alleles on the knife which the prosecution have never said. Vixen also said there were 12 human specimens when in fact C&V found the knife was negative for the human species. The fake wiki murderofmeredithkercher.com repeats the lie the knife contained Meredith’s biological material. The section of the fake wiki on the knife contains numerous falsehoods which contradict what C&V wrote in their report. As can be seen from my post below, a PGP lied on Amazon reviews that the knife had Meredith’s blood. Wendy Murphy lied that the knife had been bleached and hidden away when this was not the case. If the knife/DNA was so solid, why do PGP have to resort to lying make the evidence appear valid?
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10485386#post10485386

I have no idea who Wendy Murphy is, but that's her opinion. It is a biological, scientific fact Mez' DNA of 15 alleles was found on the blade. All parties accept it. It is not a disputed issue.

• The fake wiki lied that Stefanoni handed in negative control tests and Machiavelli also repeated this lie. If the knife/DNA evidence was so solid, why do PGP have to resort to lying about the actions of the prosecution?



The court confirmed that the demands of the defence were most irregular, unconventional and unreasonable. It is an old trick of demanding more and more minutiae, and the only way to deal with it is to nip this time-wasting energy-zapping behaviour in the bud, which the judge did.
 
Oh dear. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

Take a deep breath and repeat after me: There is not one single piece of credible, reliable evidence which serves to support the case for the participation of Knox or Sollecito in the Kercher murder. ALL of the forensic so-called "evidence" against Knox and Sollecito is fundamentally flawed to the point of being inadmissible. ALL of the witness testimony is fundamentally flawed to the point of being inadmissible (laughably so in some cases....). Key figures in the police and prosecution lied, misdirected and obfuscated in an attempt to cover incompetence and an attempt to prosecute Knox and Sollecito no matter what. Knox and Sollecito should never have been charged with any crime related to the Kercher murder, and they most certainly must have been acquitted once they WERE charged and brought to trial. Furthermore, ALL of the credible, reliable evidence in this case a) proves the guilt of Guede beyond all reasonable doubt, and b) is wholly compatible with Guede acting alone, wielding a single knife.

And breathe in again.
 
The past is prologue

During the Nencini trial in the Fall of 2013 I remember my jaw-dropping reading one of Machiavelli's posts in this very forum. :jaw-dropp

Out of the blue, Machiavelli said something akin, "I am now thinking that the kitchen knife from Raffaele's is a match for the bedsheet outline of a knife." I thought at the time that Machiavelli was grasping at straws and didn't bother to respond (IIRC).

Lo and behold a week later, dial-it-in prosecutor Crini made the same claim in court!!! At the time that seemed to confirm that Machiavelli was a somebody in this case, until Andrea Vogt called him an arm-chair detective.

But the post-war was on - a full six years past the horrible crime, suddenly a major piece of claimed-evidence, Raffaele's kitchen knife, was now (out of the blue) claimed to be a match for that blood-soaked outline on the bedsheet. If one called that into question, one was called a despicable shill for the defence, who would say anything to get the kids off. (!!)

The whole issue of one-knife, two-knives had gone full circle.

To echo Welshman's post, if the prosecution had such an open and such case - why'd they have to change motives like Imelda Marcos changes shoes, and why oh why oh why did they have to keep re-inventing the evidence about that ridiculous knife?

Not only was it ridiculous that they chose one, and one only, knife - this one from a remote location; one, just one and none other.....

Why'd Massei have to invent out of whole cloth a ridiculous claim that Knox had carried it for protection (thus preserving Massei's no prior-intent motive, but still getting the knife over to the cottage)....

Now, in 2013, they were cycling back to the "one knife theory", one that had to be abandoned back in 2009's trial because Raffaele's knife was so obviously not a match for the bed-sheet outline of a knife in blood!?

Welshman, you have provided a list of other extreme issues with that knife, if one wants to tie it to the crime somehow. What I've outlined is the problems associated with just one of those issues.

And they have the gall to say that the evidence against AK and RS is an open and shut case!!!

Finally, I remember finding a copy of Frank Sfarzo's earliest blog entries from the time, early on, when his trademark snark had been aimed at AK and RS whom he believed at the time to be obviously guilty.

In the blog entry, he recounted going down to the cottage, only to be kept at a distance because a cop was on duty. Passing the time, Sfarzo had asked the cop, "Have you searched the woods below the cottage for a knife?" The cop had replied, "Oh don't worry, we have the knife."

Sfarzo found out that there had been no search for a knife in those woods. Fourteen months later the trial had started, and Sfarzo then heard the prosecution's (then) theory of two knives, because the one from Raffaele's neither matched the wounds nor the bedsheet outline. He'd remembered, "They'd not even searched the woods for this mythical second knife!? They'd confiscated the knife Raffaele had had on him at the Questura during interrogation, and now that one is nowhere to be seen either."

This had convinced Sfarzo that the PLE were more stupid than anything, and that they had nothing, not really, to link RS and AK to the crime.

Then there was the link to Hallowe'en, then Mignini's plea to the court to see the motive as Knox's psychopathology. Even though Massei had dismissed both those motives, Massei had convicted anyway.

Which just proved to Sfarzo that the PLE from Napoleoni, to Ficarra, to Mignini, to Mattieni to Massei were really quite stupid.

Fast forward - because past is prologue. At the Nencini trial it was a completely different scenario..... with the need for two knives reduced to one, because after six years, all of a sudden Raffaele's knife was a match for the bedsheet outline/stain!

How do we know that is true? Machiavelli told us.


They did search the foliage. Please see the compilations of police photos taken at the time. There was a blunt butter knife and some bloody tissues found. The area around Grimana Piazza was a favourite haunt of druggies, so could have come from anywhere.
 
Wait a minute. Are you arguing that Kokomani offered testimony to convict the pair, or to acquit the pair? You first said he confirmed their guilt, now you're saying he was bribed to deny their guilt.

You will say anything, and invent anything, even on the heels of saying the opposite.

Within three weeks of the murder he turned up as a voluntary witness. By the time of the trial in 2009, he had clearly been paid off, or frightened off, given his heavy disguise. In England, he'd have been ordered to remove it.
 
Within three weeks of the murder he turned up as a voluntary witness. By the time of the trial in 2009, he had clearly been paid off, or frightened off, given his heavy disguise. In England, he'd have been ordered to remove it.

As per usual, you did not answer the question put to you. In its placed you offered a conspiracy theory, again just asserting it rather than offering anything substantial.

Never mind.
 
Ok - you've offered a ridiculous unproven claim to account for your ridiculous assertion that Bongiorno had had Aliessi "wheeled in" to give testimony to the Nencini trial.

What's your ridiculous accounting for what you say is "Nencini's typo" in saying that Raffaele's DNA had been found on the knife!? If you're going to cling to it being a typo, is it not equally possible that his conviction of the pair was also a typo?

In case you missed it, you are being ridiculed right now.

Lots of typos pop up in judges' write ups - usually proper nouns - as the secretaries who type them up and proof read them do not always catch them and the sign-off judge doesn't always spot them, either. It is 'bleedin' obvious' Nencini meant to say 'Amanda's DNA on the knife', not Raff's, as that was not argued by anyone.
 
They did search the foliage. Please see the compilations of police photos taken at the time. There was a blunt butter knife and some bloody tissues found. The area around Grimana Piazza was a favourite haunt of druggies, so could have come from anywhere.

Rather than simply assert this, it would be helpful to provide a link.
 
Lots of typos pop up in judges' write ups - usually proper nouns - as the secretaries who type them up and proof read them do not always catch them and the sign-off judge doesn't always spot them, either. It is 'bleedin' obvious' Nencini meant to say 'Amanda's DNA on the knife', not Raff's, as that was not argued by anyone.

It occurs to me that you really do believe this.
 
As per usual, you did not answer the question put to you. In its placed you offered a conspiracy theory, again just asserting it rather than offering anything substantial.

Never mind.


It is not my assertion. It is journalistically recorded in a newspaper Kokomani claimed he'd been offered a bribe at the time, quite independently of Aviello. even Raff mentions the latter in his book, so it is hardly something I've made up. In fact, Bongiorno vowed to sue Aviello for his claim of being bribed.

She has never got round to it.

Make of it what you will.
 
I didn't say I did. I am quoting US detectives who made the observation from having dealt with hundreds of sex criminals. As an example of this sleazy look, have a butchers at Ian Huntley of the Soham murders.

Studies show cops also have an overinflated belief that they can read people. While I do believe that some individuals are a little better at reading people than others, it is at best marginally better. You can tell maybe 70 percent of the time instead of say 50. Hardly something you should count on in determining the guilt or innocence of a suspect.
 
It is not my assertion. It is journalistically recorded in a newspaper Kokomani claimed he'd been offered a bribe at the time, quite independently of Aviello. even Raff mentions the latter in his book, so it is hardly something I've made up. In fact, Bongiorno vowed to sue Aviello for his claim of being bribed.

She has never got round to it.

Make of it what you will.

You continue to avoid answering the question as asked of you. I can see why.
 
I defer to your superior expertise in this.

Taking those first baby steps is always the hardest.

"Pervy criminals often have a well-known and well-recognised sleazy look to their eyes. "

Is that "fact" reached in the same scientific study that provided evidence for the "Guilt is seen in the eyes" and "The wearing of a T shirt given as a gift is evidence of guilt" theories?
 
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I didn't say I did. I am quoting US detectives who made the observation from having dealt with hundreds of sex criminals. As an example of this sleazy look, have a butchers at Ian Huntley of the Soham murders.

How about providing a link to these alleged US detectives?

I suppose all those priests who abused young boys also had "a well-known and well-recognised sleazy look to their eyes" too? Many "pervy criminals" got away with their crimes for years because they didn't look like the stereotypical "pervy criminal". They looked "normal". As psychiatrist Dr. Rakesh Ranjan wrote in his article "The guy next door":

"I first met Matt* at a county jail when, as a psychiatrist-in-training, I was undergoing my forensic psychiatry rotation. He was 27 and married, about 5’8” and of average build. He was well-groomed, clean shaven, mild-mannered and soft-spoken. While interviewing him, I learned that he had molested several underage girls and boys, his youngest victim being age 10. Sitting next to him, it was very hard to believe he was a sexual predator. First, I felt he must have been the ‘wrong guy’, given my preconceived notion about what a sexual predator would look like. Checking and rechecking his jail file confirmed that he was the right person."
http://medinagazette.northcoastnow.com/2010/04/28/dr-rakesh-ranjan-the-mind-of-a-sexual-predator/

I wonder why Queen Elizabeth didn't recognize that "sleazy" look of Jimmy Savile's when she granted him a knighthood in 1990?
 
How about providing a link to these alleged US detectives?

I suppose all those priests who abused young boys also had "a well-known and well-recognised sleazy look to their eyes" too? Many "pervy criminals" got away with their crimes for years because they didn't look like the stereotypical "pervy criminal". They looked "normal". As psychiatrist Dr. Rakesh Ranjan wrote in his article "The guy next door":

"I first met Matt* at a county jail when, as a psychiatrist-in-training, I was undergoing my forensic psychiatry rotation. He was 27 and married, about 5’8” and of average build. He was well-groomed, clean shaven, mild-mannered and soft-spoken. While interviewing him, I learned that he had molested several underage girls and boys, his youngest victim being age 10. Sitting next to him, it was very hard to believe he was a sexual predator. First, I felt he must have been the ‘wrong guy’, given my preconceived notion about what a sexual predator would look like. Checking and rechecking his jail file confirmed that he was the right person."
http://medinagazette.northcoastnow.com/2010/04/28/dr-rakesh-ranjan-the-mind-of-a-sexual-predator/

I wonder why Queen Elizabeth didn't recognize that "sleazy" look of Jimmy Savile's when she granted him a knighthood in 1990?

Half of England knew Jimmy Saville was a slimeball. There were newspaper reports going back to 1968 wherein he told one reporter police had warned him to never be alone with an eight year old girl again. There was the paedohile ring scandal at a children's home in Jersey, and Jimmy Saville was named as one of the 'uncles' who often visited. I mentioned this on a mensa forum, way back, and everyone else said they'd always had their doubts about him, too. Suddenly everything went quiet: Jimmy Saville threatened to sue for libel, and that was the end of that. We are a class-ridden society in the UK and the rich and famous are well-protected, as is evidenced by the sheer number of sex abuse stories that only come out AFTER the person has died.

Of course you cannot have people judged in a court of law by their appearance. That would be quite wrong and unethical. However, criminologists have always been fascinated by the criminal's appearance and behaviour.

The quote about sex offenders looking sleazy came directly from author J Paul de River, who was director of the Los Angeles Police Department Sex Offense Bureau in the 1940's. He has photos of the various convicts and observes: "Note the dreamy, neuropathic eyes often found among sexual criminals'.

Some people are better at judging character than others; these people often make good detectives and judges.

BTW, acbytesla: contrary to your belief, parents are only too aware of the proclivities of teenage boys.
 
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Vixen - this is what you are avoiding with a long series of non-sequitors.

I had said:

Regardless of this stupid, pop-psychologizing on your part, there is absolutely no record that Rudy and Amanda, much less Raffaele, ever together-conspired to do this.​
You responded by citing Kokomani's testimony:

Vixen said:
Not quite accurate: we have the testimony of Kokomani who came all the way back from Albania to give his statement to the police. This was IIRC within some three weeks of the murder. He knew salient details only someone present at the cottage would have known​

I responded to THAT by reminding you that Kokomani also had testified to seeing Knox weeks before she'd even gone to Italy.

You then shifted gears by saying that Kokomani had been bought off by Bongiorno: something which (once again) you only asserted ad provided no proof, which brought my question to you - since ignored:

Wait a minute. Are you arguing that Kokomani offered testimony to convict the pair, or to acquit the pair? You first said he confirmed their guilt, now you're saying he was bribed to deny their guilt.

You will say anything, and invent anything, even on the heels of saying the opposite.​
This earned yet another of your assertions, once again with no proof advanced....

Vixen said:
Within three weeks of the murder he turned up as a voluntary witness. By the time of the trial in 2009, he had clearly been paid off, or frightened off, given his heavy disguise. In England, he'd have been ordered to remove it.​
You replaced an answer to the question put to you with a conspiracy theory.

You said that this had been "journalistically recorded", without providing a link or a mention of who the journalist was.

I think this is actually a fault with me - I fall for your malarky every time.
 
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