Smaller governments and states are better anyway. It allows better control by the electorate and represents that population better as well. It also avoids culture clashes; I don't think serbia and the UK are sufficiently alike to agree on most policies, or to want one to decide for the other.
Good thing one doesn't decide for the other then. That's not the EU works. Again this is why I say the arguments against are not legitimate. Because they are based on fundamental either misunderstandings or deliberate misrepresentations depending on how charitable you want to be.
Serbia is not in the EU so you picked a bad example but even putting that aside its not about one deciding for the other what happens its about both agreeing common ground on things that they CAN agree on.
It's not a smokescreen, it's my opinion about how the EU system works. You can disagree with it but don't tell me that it's a lie.
I didn't say it was a lie. I said it was a smokescreen. Your assertion that the EU is undemocratic was supported by a statement. I took the statement and showed that the UK is equally undemocratic by the same measures. So unless you can counter that your opinion is not a legitimate argument. If you insist on sticking to your opinion when the things it is based on are shown to have shaky reasoning then its obvious that the reasons you are giving are not the true ones. Creationist reasoning 101 seems to be a required class for Leavers.
What, are you asking me to name names? I'm talking about the principle behind all this. Did you really not understand that, or is this a knee-jerk reaction that any argument not entirely in favour of all forms of immigration is xenophobia?
No I'm asking you to support your arguments with specifics. For example, you could say 'terrorists' or 'murderers' or 'people who have commited a crime' or 'Muslims' or 'people called Pierre' or 'right wing racists' - whatever it is that concerns you. Not some vague 'undesirables' labels that doesn't actually explain or add any credibility to your point.
Until you define what you actually mean we can't even decide if the UK actually already has the right you seem to want it to have. It certainly has the right to refuse entry to people if they have good reasons.
Incidentally you started talking about entry and now you are talking about immigration. Are you talking about entry or settlement?
If your only argument is a vague 'foreigners might be dangerous so we need to keep them out' without actually explaining your point then it is xenophobia. Sorry if you don't like that label but it is what it is.
Incidentally Americans can enter the UK freely right now. Nothing to do with the EU. Should we remove that right too?
You should have a "good" reason, maybe. Someone else might argue that you should have a "good" reason to allow someone entry.
They might. And they might want to provide reasons for that if they want to be taken seriously and have their argument considered legitimate. Some people might say you should teach Creationism in schools. People argue stupid things all the time.
Equally relevant to the point that you repeatedly made
There's that knee-jerk reaction again. You clearly have no idea why people argue for what they argue. You just assume.
I ASK. And they repeatedly fail to provide straight answers or give ones which are xenophobic. Then claim they aren't. It's tiresome.
Sure, but since it's not for me to decide, and since I'm not informed enough about those options, I cannot give you an informed response; I can only say that it's up to the UK to cook up a plan, now.
It's pretty reckless to come up with a plan to buy a parachute after you've jumped out of the plane, no?
They haven't even defined in any meaningful way what 'leave the EU' means. Deliberately so I would say.
Please, Mc. I was using it as an extreme example. Take Poland if you want, instead, but at least address what I said.
Can you name 5 important incompatibilities between Polish people and Brits? There are a million? (can't remember the number off the top of my head) Poles in the UK and they seem to be doing just fine. The only incompatibilities I have ever seen mentioned are of the sort 'the speak funny' 'they eat funny stuff'.
The only legitimate concerns I could see raised are 1) the need to provide services in Polish costs money (but this is not actually an EU requirement just a choice we make) 2) actually that's about it. There are some examples of anti-social behaviour etc but that happens amongst the indigenous population too.
Of course it's an opinion. Everything that's been said on this thread is an opinion, but opinions can be based on facts, too.
See above.
See, this is something that bothers me in the extreme. Assuming that Muslims do bother me, which they do not, why would that be such a discussion-ender for you? What is it about discussing this topic that is so uncomfortable for you that you have to shut it down with thinly-veiled accusations of racism at every turn?
Because you refuse to say who does bother you and cast aspersions at the entire EU population in doing so. Specifics help in critical thinking. So for example it was stated for a long time that the ECHR stopped us deporting bad people and we should leave the EU because of that.
This could have been a legitimate argument and one that could be discussed with facts. The facts in that case were that we COULD deport them and that the ECHR wasn't an EU body anyway. Once those facts were established it became an illegitimate argument.
So if your claim is that we need to keep out terrorists then lets look at how that is achieved. If it's that we need to keep out rapists or murderers the same. Otherwise all you are doing is saying 'foreigners are risky'
How do we determine who such people are, in advance of their doing anything to infringe the law? What culture is incompatible in the sense of a person merely by belonging to it should be denied entry into the UK, without having done anything culturally offensive in the UK?
Anyway, how will leaving the EU make any difference to this situation?
The USA is probably highly culturally incompatible with the UK when compared to most of Europe. Should we be stopping Americans travelling here because they are gun-toting murderers with extreme right-wing political views and high prevelance of religious fundamentalism?
That's just pathetic.
