Continuation Part 22: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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*cough* back to discussing the trial process of Knox & Sollecito and the Kercher murder?
 
Though as Quennell so very sanely and correctly points out: had Kercher lived, she would almost certainly have been a prominent driving force in the EU (or perhaps in the vastly more important and influential UN, where Quennell himself was such a globally-important leader), and she might singlehandedly have shaped the way the UK deals with the world. I can't believe that a person of such enormous global significance was cruelly snuffed out by Knox, Sollecito and Lumumba Guede

:rolleyes:
 
Desert Fox said:
What is left? We should be able to just see what the ECHR decides in the next couple of years and that is it.
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Perhaps, but here is def not the place to be discussing the political ramifications of a UK vote to leave the EU. I wanted to try to reverse the thread drift and steer the thread back on topic - if that means a slowdown in the post rate on the thread, so be it.

But in any case, I suspect that there will be some interesting discussion points arising within a couple of months out of the response of the Italian State (and, for that matter, the response of Knox's lawyers) to the ECHR request.
 
LondonJohn said:
Perhaps, but here is def not the place to be discussing the political ramifications of a UK vote to leave the EU. I wanted to try to reverse the thread drift and steer the thread back on topic - if that means a slowdown in the post rate on the thread, so be it.

But in any case, I suspect that there will be some interesting discussion points arising within a couple of months out of the response of the Italian State (and, for that matter, the response of Knox's lawyers) to the ECHR request.
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Indeed the ECHR keeps the case live. As things stand Amanda Knox has a conviction within the EU. I have no idea how that in a real world way impacts her freedoms as world citizen, but criminal convictions are a right royal pain for travellers, where questions and answers are a mine field. This case can further illuminate the collateral damage caused by application of any discipline that is apart from pure science, in criminal proceedings.
 
Samson said:
Indeed the ECHR keeps the case live. As things stand Amanda Knox has a conviction within the EU. I have no idea how that in a real world way impacts her freedoms as world citizen, but criminal convictions are a right royal pain for travellers, where questions and answers are a mine field. This case can further illuminate the collateral damage caused by application of any discipline that is apart from pure science, in criminal proceedings.
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There might be something else to talk about:
Corriere della Sera: Omicidio Meredith, Rudy Guede chiederà la revisione del processo
 
All of the original evidence has probably been destroyed at this point?
 
Anode said:
All of the original evidence has probably been destroyed at this point?
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In defending the way Stefanoni allowed the bra-clasp to rust out well before the end of the judicial process - thus rendering it useless as evidence.....

..... one time poster here, Machiavelli, assured us it was standard practise in Italy to destroy evidence after the adjudication of a case.
 
Thanks, I guess it would have to be. So that evidence says he's the only one in the murder room and he's lying about Knox being there. Somehow he would expect a better outcome? Good luck with that...
 
Mike1711 said:
K

Sadly I live in South Africa. A dreadful corrupt and futureless country.

I have family living in the UK and quite a few UK friends. The EU is dysfunctional. Uncontrolled immigration is hugely problematic.

The UK was well advised to leave and it's excellent that it has.

The EU may well relinquish some it's powers because if they don't over time other countries will leave.

Economically the UK won't hurt in the long term, but short term turmoil will be a challenge.

The most interesting aspect of the "In" side is how the younger generation seem to refuse to accept the result. It's anathema to be liberal and anti-democratic, but perhaps they're too young, too stupid, or too arrogant to understand the oxymoron of a liberal protesting to, in effect, overturn democracy.
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Fascinating to see the developing bromance between you and acbytesla. I certainly consulted with younger members of the family before voting, keen not to cancel out their vote. As you know, Bri'un's Youf voted overwhelmingly >75% in favour.

I am so glad I have dual nationality and will retain my EU citizenship, anyway, and continue to have the freedom of other Scandinavian countries, together with free movement across the Schengen region. In addition, my second passport is as powerful as my first, British one, (and the US passport) and even more so, as I can visit Vietnam without a visa. Don't scoff, I have had Vietnamese friends/colleagues in the past. But do I have the attitude, 'I'm all right, Jack?' No, I am concerned and outraged by the whole Brexit circus.

Notandum: Was just stopped in my tracks by the Battle of the Somme memorial service in Thiepval. That lone flautist playing Evening Hymn (the day thou gavest), gave me goosebumps, then the Welsh (?) male voice choir with Abide with me, followed by Last Post was just so amazing and poignant, I am in floods of tears. Those Coldstream Guard boys are such talented musicians (do download some of their stuff) - they undergo four or five years musical training and only the most talented young musicians get taken on for the band.

Anyway I am wavering from the point...

But lest we forget.
 
Vixen said:
Fascinating to see the developing bromance between you and acbytesla. I certainly consulted with younger members of the family before voting, keen not to cancel out their vote. As you know, Bri'un's Youf voted overwhelmingly >75% in favour.

I am so glad I have dual nationality and will retain my EU citizenship, anyway, and continue to have the freedom of other Scandinavian countries, together with free movement across the Schengen region. In addition, my second passport is as powerful as my first, British one, (and the US passport) and even more so, as I can visit Vietnam without a visa. Don't scoff, I have had Vietnamese friends/colleagues in the past. But do I have the attitude, 'I'm all right, Jack?' No, I am concerned and outraged by the whole Brexit circus.

Notandum: Was just stopped in my tracks by the Battle of the Somme memorial service in Thiepval. That lone flautist playing Evening Hymn (the day thou gavest), gave me goosebumps, then the Welsh (?) male voice choir with Abide with me, followed by Last Post was just so amazing and poignant, I am in floods of tears. Those Coldstream Guard boys are such talented musicians (do download some of their stuff) - they undergo four or five years musical training and only the most talented young musicians get taken on for the band.

Anyway I am wavering from the point...

But lest we forget.
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Oh Vixen, you are an international woman of mystery. Perfectly qualified to deconstruct this complex case. But hang on, professor Guede did it with a knife in the bedroom.
 
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Pacal said:
Contrary to your statement "it is not possible to say 'it is untrue any of the Salem defendants were witches'." it is indeed possible to say that none of the Salem Defendants were Witches. Just read up about the farce of justice that the trials were. The absolutely idiotic "evidence" used to convict the accused. Even at the time the absolutely silly but lethal nature of the trials was well known. In the aftermath of the trials the accused, including those executed were exonerated and compensation paid to survivors. So even the authorities at the time thought the trials were a horrible joke. Also if by "Witch" you mean a practitioner of Wicca or the made up diabolic religion concocted by the Witch Hunters in Salem then it is nearly certain that none of the accused "Witches" were in fact "Witches". If you mean some of them may have practiced "folk magic" or been superstitious to would suspect a majority would have done one of the two from time to time. After all throwing salt over your shoulder to ward off the Devil is "folk magic".

The idea that John Dee was a "Witch" "Warlock" is amusing and promoted by some Wicca enthusiasts, it is also false. John Dee was a rather addled Astrologer, who some of the credulous took for a Wizard. As for Madame Blavatsky. Well if you think Theosophy is "Witchcraft", good for you. It isn't.

The bottom line is that Wicca is a modern faith that owes a lot to "folk magic" and cleaned up versions of the ravings of the Witch Hunters it almost certainly did not exist in the 17th century. Thus there were "witches" in the sense of practitioners of the Witch Religion no where except in the minds of the Witch Hunters. What there was were superstitious people some of whom practiced "folk magic" which is not the Witch religion.

I would also like to repeat that the various judicial and other authorities in Massachusetts after the events in Salem eventually cleared the accused and those put to death.
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We should be grateful the early Pilgrim Fathers clung onto their Christianity, otherwise the founding fathers of the USA might have been Basphomet (_sp?)-worshipping freemasons.


...Oh wait.
 
Bill Williams said:
In defending the way Stefanoni allowed the bra-clasp to rust out well before the end of the judicial process - thus rendering it useless as evidence.....

..... one time poster here, Machiavelli, assured us it was standard practise in Italy to destroy evidence after the adjudication of a case.
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For the record, Appeal Courts do not look at evidence. They assess whether the points of law, interpretation thereof and any resulting conviction is sound.

As the prosecution never pleaded 'Rudy did it alone' and indeed made it clear they believed a certain other person inflicted the lethal blow, there are some rulings they are not in a position to make, such as 'Rudy was the lone wolf'.
 
Samson said:
Oh Vixen, you are an international woman of mystery. Perfectly qualified to deconstruct this complex case. But hang on, professor Guede did it with a knife in the bedroom.
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...Together with post-modernist talking head Professor Amanda (when she's not posing for pseuds corner photo shots with pretentious photographers called 'Dawndra') and Crime Expert guru and social commentator psychopomp Raff of the Dead.
 
Vixen said:
For the record, Appeal Courts do not look at evidence. They assess whether the points of law, interpretation thereof and any resulting conviction is sound.

As the prosecution never pleaded 'Rudy did it alone' and indeed made it clear they believed a certain other person inflicted the lethal blow, there are some rulings they are not in a position to make, such as 'Rudy was the lone wolf'.
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But as your privy council likes to say

the proper basis on which admission of fresh evidence should
be decided is by the application of a sequential series of tests. If
the evidence is not credible, it should not be admitted. If it is
credible, the question then arises whether it is fresh in the sense
that it is evidence which could not have been obtained for the trial
with reasonable diligence. If the evidence is both credible and
fresh, it should generally be admitted unless the court is satisfied
at that stage that, if admitted, it would have no effect on the safety
of the conviction. If the evidence is credible but not fresh, the court
should assess its strength and its potential impact on the safety of
the conviction. If it considers that there is a risk of a miscarriage of justice if the evidence is excluded, it should be admitted, notwithstanding that the evidence is not fresh.”
 
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And I should add, it appears that England (nice new little place) seems to be well able to keep innocent people in the community, notwithstanding the absurdity of the hapless Jeremy Bamber.
You are streets ahead of Italy America New Zealand and Canada.
 
Vixen said:
We should be grateful the early Pilgrim Fathers clung onto their Christianity, otherwise the founding fathers of the USA might have been Basphomet (_sp?)-worshipping freemasons.


...Oh wait.
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Amen.
 
Vixen said:
For the record, Appeal Courts do not look at evidence. They assess whether the points of law, interpretation thereof and any resulting conviction is sound.

As the prosecution never pleaded 'Rudy did it alone' and indeed made it clear they believed a certain other person inflicted the lethal blow, there are some rulings they are not in a position to make, such as 'Rudy was the lone wolf'.
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I'm not sure that matters. The question is, was Rudy involved in Meredith's murder? That the courts were unable to prove that specific other people were involved does not alter the fact that Rudy was involved.
 
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