Brexit: the referendum

No worries. People always think I'm a guy.

Here's an article about how England will cope with the Brexit vote in Eduction.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...6/26/how-brexit-could-hurt-british-education/

When you look how it ties together in the big picture you can see that by removing themselves from the EU they have essentially doubled down on the lack of jobs for those with junk degrees. Universities and jobs are likely to recruit from the EU over the country as a whole.

Again coming back to English arrogance and overselling their own importance. It's a symptomatic mindset that has gone on for some time. England likes to compare itself to the US which is nonsensical. As was pointed out before, we are much bigger and have a bigger market and generate a much larger GDP.

The Brexit vote undeniably shows that the people in England honestly think they can maintain their importance in the world on their own.

Although this influence and success does not derive directly from EU membership, most business school leaders would argue that inside the EU, it is easier for us to recruit students and staff from across Europe, and gain access to other EU markets as foreign providers. EU membership also opens up additional funding streams (e.g. Horizon 2020) and opportunities for faculty and students to gain international experience through such programmes as Erasmus. Our ability to collaborate with experts and institutions from other European states is also assisted by being at the heart of the EU and the European Higher Education Area (EHEA). Whilst the likes of Switzerland and Norway have strong business school communities without EU membership, there are material advantages arising from being at the core of the Union.
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truethat said:
Still don't get it right? It's just burning your butt that you can't act superior to an American any more. I'd be laughing my ass off if I didn't feel so bad for your country.
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So that's what your heaps of drivel are all about: inferiority complex?

My dear chap, even if English people are disparaging your country, you don't need to get so worked up about it. Ignore it.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
I don't know anyone apart from myself that likes Americans. I don't know anyone apart from myself that has actually met or knows an American. There just seems to be a resentment against them for a whole load of different reasons including WW2, fast food, tourists, perceived arrogance, Gulf War and their dominant position in Nato among others.
Similarly I don't know anyone that has met a German, Frenchman or Italian. They are still all disliked for a variety of reasons.
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Wow. Your experiences and outlooks are so different from mine, I recognise pretty much none of the above.
 
truethat said:
I specifically compared it to Trump Supporters because we have them here in the US as well. The difference is that they don't outnumber those that are rational in this country. (That's why I said I might have to eat crow this election if he wins. But I don't think he will win because he's an idiot.)
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I think a difference is that Trump actively repels people in a way the EU doesn't attract people. Every vote's a protest vote these days, and Trump is something to protest about. So was Leave, but not so strongly it seems.

The US may lead global culture over the hump, we can but hope.
 
Craig B said:
So that's what your heaps of drivel are all about: inferiority complex?

My dear chap, even if English people are disparaging your country, you don't need to get so worked up about it. Ignore it.
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No, not at all. That's not what worked me up. What worked me up is that over the years I'd be talking to an English person, whom at first I started off with this just assumption that they would be intelligent and educated. And for the last few years it's blown my mind how backward they have been. Like MIND BLOWINGLY illiterate.

I suppose it would be like meeting Canadians that hated nature and were cranky. It's such a switch to what you'd expect. And so I'm being pushy here because I've been saying this for YEARS and people insisted that I was just annoyed because they were criticizing America.

I kept saying "Why don't you see what's happening in your own country???" People kept saying I was exaggerating or that it wasn't happening. Well the Brexit vote proved I was right.

Especially because it came as a SHOCK to so many people. I told everyone they would vote to leave because they honestly believe that they are this really powerful country and that they can do it on their own. I wasn't shocked at all.

The shock is what proves me right even more. That people didn't see what I was saying alllllll along.

(Maybe in that case I'm getting too worked up. But not about insulting the US. To me the English have always seemed ridiculous when they attempt to talk about the United States. So I don't take offense any more. It's just laughable.)

:thumbsup::D:D
 
dudalb said:
Hey,they tried that with the United States.Did not work out too well.Ask generals Burgoyne at Saratoga and Cornwallis at Yorktown about that.....
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Captain_Swoop said:
You weren't important enough to send the real army.
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Really?

At the onset of the war, the British had around 8,000 men stationed in North America.

...

Early in 1775, the British Army consisted of about 36,000 men worldwide, but wartime recruitment steadily increased this number.

...

At the onset of the war, the British Army was less than 48,000 strong worldwide, and suffered from a lack of effective recruiting. By 1778, the army was pardoning criminals for military service and had extended the age range for service to be from 16 to 50.

...

Furthermore, despite the fact that at its height, the British fielded some 56,000 men in the colonies exclusive of mercenaries and militia,[166] they lacked sufficient numbers.
...

Over the course of the war, Great Britain signed treaties with various German states, which supplied about 30,000 soldiers.[171] Germans made up about one-third of the British troop strength in North America.
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What was "the real army" doing?
 
Are you seriously going to play semantics in lieu of a real argument. Oh wait, never mind. I get it. I'm used to that. Carry on. :D

No I mean illiterate. You can read the entire article I posted above where they also use the word illiterate. In other words they have been taught to test and not educated to think. Example, the guy who told me that he had written a screen play about the FBI infiltrating an Albania spy in the 1970s on the track to get a secret document needed to kill Hitler.

That kind of illiteracy. Not the kind that only means you can read and write. (Although I can see why you think that's ONLY what literacy means.) But the kind of people who can think and understand and apply things.

I'm not the one who is saying it. It just made sense to me when I read the article. You know the one everyone keeps ignoring and acting like is no big deal.

That's sad.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...-developed-world-report-reveals-a6841166.html


English teenagers are among some of the least educated in the developed world, a report reveals.

Young people aged between 16 and 19 have been found to possess only a “basic” grasp of maths and English, with nine million people of working age having low literacy or numeracy skills.

The report, conducted by the OECD (the Operation for Economic Co-Operation and Development) found that out of 23 developed nations, English teens had the lowest literacy rates and the second to lowest numeracy rates.

READ MORE
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The report summarised that one in five young university students could manage basic tasks but might struggle with anything advanced, like reading instructions on an aspirin bottle.

It concluded: "university teaching gives limited attention to low levels of literacy and numeracy. Graduates with low basic skills gain modest returns from their qualifications and will often not be able to repay their student debts. England has a large university system relative to a poorly skilled pool of potential entrants."
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truethat said:
Exactly, they star in American shows and in HOLLYWOOD movies because England doesn't produce much very successfully on their own. The fact that you wrote this thinking it shows "English leads culturally" just demonstrates what I mean. For a country that's been around as long as England has you'd think they'd been leading in innovations in science, technology, medicine and culture. But they aren't.
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Try E2V and Inmarsat to start understanding how fatuous that statement is. Oh and lets throw in Surrey Satellite Technology for good measure.
 
Garrison said:
Try E2V and Inmarsat to start understanding how fatuous that statement is. Oh and lets throw in Surrey Satellite Technology for good measure.
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The Surrey link is very interesting. Thanks for sharing it. You're still missing the point. For their supposed great history in how they view themselves they should be a world leader in this kind of work. Not just someone "also adding to the pool."

They view themselves as a world leader when they are really on par with a country like Spain. That's why they voted for Brexit. They don't understand the reality and think "they" have been holding up the EU when it's not been that way at all.
 
Francesca R said:
It's good that a New Yorker has arrived in the thread to unite the squabbling Brits :v
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:thumbsup::D

Sure wish people would take a look at it and think about it. How in the world are people so blase about the article about literacy levels? I guess it doesn't really matter.
 
What do you know you're American. Go and vote in Trump. Or something.

(I don't care about this really I am kiwi by birth and Italian by wishful thinking)
 
truethat: you keep harping on about how terrible the education system has become in the UK and that is why the "leave" vote won out. How do you reconcile that with exit polls that show the under 30's overwhelmingly voted to remain in the EU?? Or am I misunderstanding your line of thinking?
 
lobosrul said:
truethat: you keep harping on about how terrible the education system has become in the UK and that is why the "leave" vote won out. How do you reconcile that with exit polls that show the under 30's overwhelmingly voted to remain in the EU?? Or am I misunderstanding your line of thinking?
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They're so illiterate they couldn't even put their X in the right box. Now THAT'S stupid!
 
lobosrul said:
truethat: you keep harping on about how terrible the education system has become in the UK and that is why the "leave" vote won out. How do you reconcile that with exit polls that show the under 30's overwhelmingly voted to remain in the EU?? Or am I misunderstanding your line of thinking?
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My line of thinking is England is in trouble. A lot of trouble. Basically you've got a lot of "UKIP" supporters very similar to Trump supporters in the US. You could kind of equate it this way: My gay friends in the US are saying that essentially you have to just wait for all the old people to die off because people are moving forward. Once the old thinkers die off the new more educated, more open minded people will take over and move forward in progress.

If you are outnumbered to the point that you have Trump supporters winning this election in the US. And the you know he will have control for the next 8 years and that by the time he gets out of office the "adults in society" are going to be illiterates with junk college degrees and no critical thinking skills how is the country going to look?

That's a huge problem. It's a double edged problem. There's no redeeming it. You wouldn't be able to bring it back.

I do admit that my "I told ya so" is annoying. But I've been pointing this out for the last 8 years or so and it's not been noticed. People have basically suggested that I see English people that way BECAUSE I am a dumb American who doesn't understand that they are more sophisticated in England.

Well no, it's been shocking to me. The illiteracy is bizarre. However almost every English person I've ever spoken to has told me that English people are better educated than people in the United States.

So why that comparison bugs me, is realizing how totally blind to this people were.

Hope I answered your question.

Oh and one more point. Illiteracy doesn't occur in a vacuum. The fact that teenagers are so illiterate is a reflection of the kind of homes and parents they have as well. It's socioeconomic background. You don't get large numbers of illiterate teenagers without large numbers of illiterate parents. And they are the ones who voted for the exit.
 
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