Suddenly, A Flat Earther Appears!

Jack by the hedge said:
Were I a flat earther I would probably counter that you can get correct results from an incorrect model. I'd claim that people were predicting planetary movements using a geocentric model before they switched to a heliocentric model and plainly both of those cannot be correct.
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Yeah, but not very well. They had to introduce epicycles in order to make it work, and even then it wasn't very accurate.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Were I a flat earther I would probably counter that you can get correct results from an incorrect model. I'd claim that people were predicting planetary movements using a geocentric model before they switched to a heliocentric model and plainly both of those cannot be correct.
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Yes, they would probably insist that people have been predicting eclipses for thousands of years. Trying to convince them that people weren't very good at it until recently, and that the round Earth model is required to do it right, might be difficult.

The problem with Believers is they will clutch at any straw to dismiss your entire argument if you are not a fellow Believer. To convince them, you have to find a weakness, not in their logic, but in their faith. If you can find some sort of weak spot, and attack that, the whole rest of the house of cards will collapse, but until then they will parry all logic.
 
One thing that is necessary in dealing with such people is to find something that they can see, touch, view. The abstract is not their strong suit. If it's on TV, it can be faked, so talking about moon landings isn't going to work, or sailing ships, or even time zones.

One angle I might try is to talk about GPS. In the case of satellite communications, you are dealing with information that comes to you. In the case of GPS, that thing seems to know something about you. It knows where you are. Also, it is something they use every day in their lives if they have a cell phone or car nav system. Moreover, they know that this is a recent invention.

Then, you can talk about how it won't work without satellites, and you might get into flat Earth satellite models.

It still might not work, but in order to explain it without satellites and a round Earth, they might have to speculate on super government spy networks. Most of them will probably go that route, which means the argument isn't convincing, but at least it would be fun to watch.
 
Meadmaker said:
Then, you can talk about how it won't work without satellites, and you might get into flat Earth satellite models.
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I seem to recall, from I know not where, a flat earther explaining all satellite functions as simply radio transmitters.
 
abaddon said:
I think that might have been on cluesforum, but I am disinclined to dip my toe in that cesspit again unless I am very, very drunk.
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Cluesforum's self-declared consensus is that flat earth is a NASA promoted hoax designed to make conspiracy theorists look like brain dead morons. They do not require the help of NASA to do this.

However they have (along with other deluded dullards) claimed that as rocketry is impossible, all GPS and satellite thingies must be faked on the ground by...erm...bad guys and stuff.
 
threadworm said:
Cluesforum's self-declared consensus is that flat earth is a NASA promoted hoax designed to make conspiracy theorists look like brain dead morons. They do not require the help of NASA to do this.

However they have (along with other deluded dullards) claimed that as rocketry is impossible, all GPS and satellite thingies must be faked on the ground by...erm...bad guys and stuff.
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Did they give a specific name? Like the MIB's, the CIA, Majestic-12, Freemasons, ect...?
 
I'll still never forget my favorite thing I saw on the Cluesforum. They were claiming some helicopter crash into a pub was fake because the pictures (which when I looked at them I could see helicopter parts) had no helicopter parts in them. They make up the story first and ignore all available evidence that doesn't fit even when it is right in front of them.
 
AdamSK said:
They can't all see the Southern Cross at the same time. They each see the Southern Cross as the sky rotates into a position where they can see it.
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They (actually WE) can see the Southern Cross at the same time.

While they could say that about brazilians and australians because it´s never night at the same time (what about solar eclipses? Never paid attention to see if it is possible to see the Southern Cross), a brazilian and a south african are UNDER THE NIGHT AT THE SAME TIME and can see the southern cross in the same place while looking south (a bit rotated), while at their map, the constellation would be almost 90º angle from a brazilian (that is, to his WEST) when seen south by a South African.

Flat_earth.png
 
Meadmaker said:
I've been thinking about this, trying to come up with why this isn't a good argument.

Of course, logically, it's a perfectly good argument. Of course it is correct. Unfortunately, it would persuade no one, because the people it is aimed at do not think scientifically. They aren't interested in testing their theories to see if they are correct. They have read the Bible. They know it is right. From there, they want to seek confirmation of their correct theory. If someone presents a logical argument, and they cannot refute it, they will attribute their inability to refute it to their own lack of knowledge of "unimportant" things, or maybe to the conspiracy that keeps "the truth" away from them.

What I mean is, the reaction from a flat earther to that argument is likely to be something along the lines of, "Well, I'm not sure about that. I'm not some great math guy who can figure it all out. I just know that flat Earth scientists have figured it out exactly, but the scientific establishment won't publish their papers."
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maybe showing it in a video, with some 3D can convince some of the fools.

anyway, it can convince flat earthers in the southern hemisphere. Most seem to be americans, but somehow this pest has spread here to Brazil too.

most brazilians are catholics and the catholic church has said multiple times that Genesis should not be read literally, such passages are allegorical and the important is the message, blah blah. So most catholics don´t believe in Noah's Ark, 6000 year old universe, etc.

Nor would accept a Flat Earth.

HOWEVER, pentecostal evangelism has been gaining ground in Brazil, and those extremist religious views and dogmas I mentioned above are spreading too among pentecostals.
 
speaking of which, does anyone knows how Flat Earthers explain time zones being the same in the south and northern hemispheres?

Why does the sun casts a THINNER zone of light on the northern hemisphere than on the southern?
 
Tell a Flat Earther to call someone (preferably a Flat Earther) in New Zealand when it's 7am there.

Then call them to call someone in Brasil (preferably a Flat Earther). Ask the brazilian if it's night there. It should be according to their ridiculous sun illumination model

and yet... it will be a sunny afternoon in Brasilia... 16:00
 
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AcesHigh said:
speaking of which, does anyone knows how Flat Earthers explain time zones being the same in the south and northern hemispheres?
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The sun follows a circular ring around the Earth near the equator (moving north and then south over the course of the year.) The time zones correspond to slices of the disk that are each closest to the sun at the same time as the sun moves in a circle perpendicular to the time zones.
 
In my post #154 I alluded to the sky being modelled as a hemispherical dome. Ever since I have been concerned about the logical conclusion from this, that the rim of the sky and the rim of the flat Earth must roughly coincide. Near the ice wall, the sky, and the stars embedded in it, must be no more than a few hundred miles from parts of the southern ocean accessible by ship. While this would present opportunities for really close-up stellar research and provide a handy source of energy, it does raise the question of how the ice wall remains frozen. Maybe the stars are just awfully tiny and/or cold.
There's a job for the first flat-Earth research ship to investigate. Collecting funds now!
 
AdamSK said:
The sun follows a circular ring around the Earth near the equator (moving north and then south over the course of the year.) The time zones correspond to slices of the disk that are each closest to the sun at the same time as the sun moves in a circle perpendicular to the time zones.
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it wouldn´t work.

7am in New Zealand... it´s 16pm in Brasilia.


Find me a Flat Earth map where that is possible to have both New Zealand and Brasilia lit up at the same time, with Brasilia with 1-2 hours of sunlight to spare.

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self explanatory
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AcesHigh said:
it wouldn´t work.

7am in New Zealand... it´s 16pm in Brasilia.


Find me a Flat Earth map where that is possible to have both New Zealand and Brasilia lit up at the same time, with Brasilia with 1-2 hours of sunlight to spare.
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They'll probably just alter the movement of light from the sun again, like they do when saying that light bends upward to give the appearance of ships going below the horizon. Maybe it's a cone or it just stretches out towards the rim for some reason.
 
and here, an answer from a Flat Earther on Youtube (directed towards me) that sums up all the reason for their ignorance:

"the reason for the flat earth cover up, is that It proves god. They want you to believe you came from nothing and aren't important. Without the globe lie you can't have evolution, dinosaurs, cavemen, space etc.....all of that **** depends on the globe lie.
Genesis 1:7
Job 37:18
Rev 6:13
Psalms 104:5 they prove flat earth. And wether you believe in god or not is irrelevant, he exists. You may also not believe in the devil, who also exists, but the elites do, and nasa is their creation. They perform rituals right in front of your eyes disguised as things like 'half time shows' or 'awards ceremonies'
It's simple, globe lie=satanic worship flat earth=god.
The people who you mention, amateur astronomers etc. They're what's known as useful idiots, and want to believe the lie so bad they fool themselves.
Lol they've got you hook line and sinker, huh little guy? Keep believing everything they tell you, space cadet, I'm sure you'll reach Mars someday lol "
 
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