Criss Angel
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PM me.rikzilla
Ninja wave: Atomic fire-breath ninja
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I did get to see some of the "Mindfreak" show but wasn't home so couldn't record it. Criss has some very cool street magic illusions. I went to his message board to learn more and found it full of nutty "believers".
Here's a common example:
Here's a link.
I've been trying to talk a little sense to some of these people and have been warned by moderators to "stop trying to debunk this".
I'm likely to get banned....funny thing is that Mr. Angel is not making supernatural claims as far as I know....but he sure seems to be encouraging others to court the woo-woos for him. Disgusting!
-z
Here's a common example:
I remember him telling the people who he was levitating (or they were levitating either or) and he told them to think of the perfect moment, happiest moment in their life.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's SIMILAR to Astral projection, in order to preform you have to be at peace with everything, and be happy, and feel lighter than air, and have the urge to want to and to not be afraid and to belive in yourself. To "Face your fears"
-Sean
Edited by: BoRdOm4SaLe at: 7/20/05 11:37 pm
Here's a link.
I've been trying to talk a little sense to some of these people and have been warned by moderators to "stop trying to debunk this".
I'm likely to get banned....funny thing is that Mr. Angel is not making supernatural claims as far as I know....but he sure seems to be encouraging others to court the woo-woos for him. Disgusting!
-z
rikzilla
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Yeah, it's a hoot! It's a veritable gold mine of woo-wooism! Could Criss Angel actually be fostering the belief that he's doing real paranormal stuff? Seems to me that at least the people running his board are anyway!
We ought to get a JREF intervention going on that board! If we all get banned we can clue Randi in that Criss Angel's gone off to the dark side.
-z
We ought to get a JREF intervention going on that board! If we all get banned we can clue Randi in that Criss Angel's gone off to the dark side.
-z
Cain
Straussian
I liked part of the show, didn't like others. Criss Angel just seems way too over-dramatic for my tastes. What's up with the cuts of him and the chick walking through the desert with the wind blowing against their hair/long clothing? Silliness. He's trying to hard.
rikzilla
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Cain said:
He's just doing the showman/mystique thing. What's really disturbing is his following on his forum. It's like a huge woo-woo convention! They all really seem to think he's capable of levitation and telekinesis! Check this out:
It's full of stuff like that. Criss Angel doesn't seem to care at all that his fans are succumbing to woo-wooism. Sad.
-z
Cain
Straussian
That's so disturbing.
Anti_Hypeman
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I thought the Anne Rice goth fettish thing was over I guess not.
I watched an episode of this the other day. At the beginning of the episode, viewers are warned not to try these "illusions" at home. As far as I know, the show isn't calling these powers supernatural.
Through from reading the linked posts here, some of his fans may be taking off on that. Even if he were to come out and publicly say that these were all tricks (which he won't, bad for business, especially among the 'true believers'), they'd likely not believe him.
Through from reading the linked posts here, some of his fans may be taking off on that. Even if he were to come out and publicly say that these were all tricks (which he won't, bad for business, especially among the 'true believers'), they'd likely not believe him.
rikzilla
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Welcome to the forum Lane...
Well I've been engaged in several threads there. I started a thread called :
Nothing Criss does is paranormal
Sad to say the thread was locked...and I seem to be on the cusp of being banned and yet have violated no established rule! Not only that but there were several attempts to infect my PC while I was on the site. Luckily this PC has all the anti-virus bells and whistles plus is behind a corporate firewall.
Ugly, ugly, ugly. Makes me appreciate the ethical people who run this site!
It looks to me like Criss's people are letting people make incredible claims for him...then tacity agreeing with them. That's just slimy.
-z
Well I've been engaged in several threads there. I started a thread called :
Nothing Criss does is paranormal
Sad to say the thread was locked...and I seem to be on the cusp of being banned and yet have violated no established rule! Not only that but there were several attempts to infect my PC while I was on the site. Luckily this PC has all the anti-virus bells and whistles plus is behind a corporate firewall.
Ugly, ugly, ugly. Makes me appreciate the ethical people who run this site!
It looks to me like Criss's people are letting people make incredible claims for him...then tacity agreeing with them. That's just slimy.
-z
HarryKeogh
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rikzilla said:
Just read through that thread Rik...I was impressed by the way you handled yourself. Nice job even though your efforts seemed to fall on deaf ears.
Psiload
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I'm surprised. I heard Criss being inteviewed on a radio show and he was adament in his explanation that everything he does is based on illusion and not real magic. He went on to bash John Edwards calling him a dispicible fraud, and he even went into a short explanation of cold reading techniques.
I can't imagine he condones what's happening on his message board. It sounds like a woo somehow wormed themselves into a moderator position. I hope he stomps that crap real quick.
I can't imagine he condones what's happening on his message board. It sounds like a woo somehow wormed themselves into a moderator position. I hope he stomps that crap real quick.
rikzilla said:
Thanks for the warm welcome. I can volunteer the use of my computer for such forays into unknown waters (I run a Mac).
Your posts are very well-reasoned, and you managed to walk the thin line between condemnation of fallacious beliefs and attempting to educate people honestly about the truth.
Winslow Leach
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I thought you handled yourself as best you could in that forum. I just couldn't believe the reponses you were getting when everything you said was totally rational.
darkstar747
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Hello all. I'm excited to say this is my first post. I also had some interest in the whole Beleive in Criss Angel Cult that's been sprouting out from fans. I joined the Yahoo group just out of curiousity, and I must say he really is gathering a mass of people whom think he has supernatural abilities. I watched the questbook one day and someone asked how he turned water into beer. I posted a book that explains this without exposing the trick itself. Sure enough my post was deleted within about 12 hours. The symbology of it all eh. I myself am a humble street magician, that has never made a dime doing tricks, on the other hand I have yet to see anything on Criss's shows I can't figure out the true nature of. What bothers me is his clever wording. He's not claiming to produce paranormal feats, but he just may be, that's for you to decide. Isn't that in essence what magic is? He truly walks the fine line there, perhaps for his own ego, or ratings. None the less the use of camera cuts and how he produces a sense of supernatural in the downtime before tricks is a little irresponsible in my opinion. Way too overboard if you will.
Much respect to rikzilla for speaking kindly and wisely in that other forum.
It's odd some folks blasted him with outright insults and degrading responses, yet your the one causing the problem. There are so many flim flam (bet you know where I got that word from) groups out there, now we have yet another.
I'm gald to be a part of this group now. My first book on magic was a gift from my grandmother "The Magic World of the Amazing Randi". I'm 30 now, learning from the masters of past and present. I ponder how different I would be now if it wasn't for that book. I most surely wouldn't be here, nor entertaining the masses for fun.
Cheers
Much respect to rikzilla for speaking kindly and wisely in that other forum.
It's odd some folks blasted him with outright insults and degrading responses, yet your the one causing the problem. There are so many flim flam (bet you know where I got that word from) groups out there, now we have yet another.
I'm gald to be a part of this group now. My first book on magic was a gift from my grandmother "The Magic World of the Amazing Randi". I'm 30 now, learning from the masters of past and present. I ponder how different I would be now if it wasn't for that book. I most surely wouldn't be here, nor entertaining the masses for fun.
Cheers
Brown
Penultimate Amazing
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He's way too over-dramatic for my tastes, too. There are bad camera angles (the camera apparently often acting as a stooge) and jerky motions, not to mention disorienting cuts. It's not a pleasant show to watch.Cain said:
Some of what he does is weird, but genuine. Some of what he does is plainly fake. His stated goal is make it difficult for the viewer to determine whether what's seen is genuine or fake.
As for his magic, I was impressed by some, but unimpressed by other effects. In one of his card tricks, I spotted the method immediately (I was familiar with the method from "Scarne on Card Tricks") and laughed all the way through the trick. I know a lot of people would be utterly mystified by that trick, but I could easily perform it myself.
crocodile deathroll
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Trick boot or hypnosis, and selective camera angles, not TK
He could be a stage hypnotist as well. It would be amazing what a stage hypnotist could do if you combine with him with the skills of an illusionist with a bit of digital video editing thrown in afterwards. If I was there in the shopping mall to witness it for myself I probably just be observing him standing on a stool of climbing up a ladder and a few half spaced out hypnotised onlookers looking bemused as those "amazing" feats of TK (sic)
I also saw another scene of a woman in the street drawing a picture of a butterfly on a piece of paper. She passed it to Criss Angel who proceeded to fold it and open it up and a live butterfly flew out and the drawing vanished. That does IMO smack of digital video editing. I would love to see what he would do if I drew a picture of an elephant on the little piece of paper.
Another method and I think it would be a very good method would be the use of a "trick boot" where most of the sole cut out just leave the out edge in tact just so the toe end of the foot enter in and out of the boot easily. The trick boot should show no external signs to that boot modification at all to the audience. Then with good balancing skills all Criss Angel has to do is balance on the toe of foot that is wearing the trick boot to raise him or herself off the ground and the observers get the illusion that both feet are levitating up off the ground at once because no one suspects that the toe end of one of the feet is no longer inside the boot as he is very carefully balancing on it. No one can spot the protruding foot beneath the boot as he is careful to keep it out of their line of sight. There is also no give away camera angles.
I also noticed that as he is performing his standing levitation illusions his arms are outstretched. There are some mystical quasi-religious overtones to this like Christ ascending to heaven. But it is also a handy way to aid balance. It is very difficult the balance on one toe with your arms down.
He could be a stage hypnotist as well. It would be amazing what a stage hypnotist could do if you combine with him with the skills of an illusionist with a bit of digital video editing thrown in afterwards. If I was there in the shopping mall to witness it for myself I probably just be observing him standing on a stool of climbing up a ladder and a few half spaced out hypnotised onlookers looking bemused as those "amazing" feats of TK (sic)
I also saw another scene of a woman in the street drawing a picture of a butterfly on a piece of paper. She passed it to Criss Angel who proceeded to fold it and open it up and a live butterfly flew out and the drawing vanished. That does IMO smack of digital video editing. I would love to see what he would do if I drew a picture of an elephant on the little piece of paper.
Another method and I think it would be a very good method would be the use of a "trick boot" where most of the sole cut out just leave the out edge in tact just so the toe end of the foot enter in and out of the boot easily. The trick boot should show no external signs to that boot modification at all to the audience. Then with good balancing skills all Criss Angel has to do is balance on the toe of foot that is wearing the trick boot to raise him or herself off the ground and the observers get the illusion that both feet are levitating up off the ground at once because no one suspects that the toe end of one of the feet is no longer inside the boot as he is very carefully balancing on it. No one can spot the protruding foot beneath the boot as he is careful to keep it out of their line of sight. There is also no give away camera angles.
I also noticed that as he is performing his standing levitation illusions his arms are outstretched. There are some mystical quasi-religious overtones to this like Christ ascending to heaven. But it is also a handy way to aid balance. It is very difficult the balance on one toe with your arms down.
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Crocodile. I've probably seen the same episode you saw last week.
Regarding the butterfly one, it could be legit. It could all be just editing for the final cut of the episode. He could've done the trick to dozens of people, and that particular lady chose butterfly. On the other hand, those people choosing animals other than butterfly could've gotten into an entirely different trick...which isn't shown on TV coz it wasn't as impressive.
For the levitation trick, I don't think he stood on a stool, since you can clearly see him hovering, up and down. The trick boot won't work, since he hovers at least 1-2 feet above ground.
Another thing is that I find it hard to believe that he'll use dodgy tricks like hardcore video editing ie. deleting wires/stools, since he'll be so looked down upon by all the other professional magicians.
Anyone else have info?
Regarding the butterfly one, it could be legit. It could all be just editing for the final cut of the episode. He could've done the trick to dozens of people, and that particular lady chose butterfly. On the other hand, those people choosing animals other than butterfly could've gotten into an entirely different trick...which isn't shown on TV coz it wasn't as impressive.
For the levitation trick, I don't think he stood on a stool, since you can clearly see him hovering, up and down. The trick boot won't work, since he hovers at least 1-2 feet above ground.
Another thing is that I find it hard to believe that he'll use dodgy tricks like hardcore video editing ie. deleting wires/stools, since he'll be so looked down upon by all the other professional magicians.
Anyone else have info?