If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong. Part II

[NoahFence]

So why would a little falling steel be so much louder than a lot of falling steel?

The video you linked is purposely edited to confirm your bias. It's not relevant.

 

[MicahJava]

It's too bad you can't see the obvious flaw here.

You don't believe someone could have predicted the collapse. Just not possible, despite having decades of experience to pull from. Not to mention several centuries worth of experiences that are now just common knowledge.

All that isn't worth anything to you.

But the fact that people who know nothing about the related science are more than qualified, in your opinion, to say what happened, that's ok?

You want me to accept a historical first without question. The closest example I could find is with One Meridian Plaza, which was evacuated because of extremely dangerous fires and at least one engineer's opinion that there may be danger of collapse after eleven hours of gigantic raging fires that killed three firefighters. A collapse zone was made and operations were hauled.

The engineer in this case did not say that the building would collapse, nor did they predict a time in which it would collapse. Also, it did not collapse.

 

[MicahJava]

The video you linked is purposely edited to confirm your bias. It's not relevant.

You can clearly hear this same percussive noise on the CBS footage with the unaided ear, about 3 seconds before the east penthouse falls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqbUkThGlCo

The sound of the rest of the collapse was not picked up by the microphone.

 

[NoahFence]

You want me to accept a historical first without question. The closest example I could find is with One Meridian Plaza, which was evacuated because of extremely dangerous fires and at least one engineer's opinion that there may be danger of collapse after eleven hours of gigantic raging fires that killed three firefighters. A collapse zone was made and operations were hauled.

The engineer in this case did not say that the building would collapse, nor did they predict a time in which it would collapse. Also, it did not collapse.

You're hopeless.

 

[MicahJava]

Please provide a video that mimics what is seen here on a real CD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6n7AG2YJ-I

Though hundreds of videos exist showing the collapse of WTC 7, not a single solitary truther has ever been able to provide one, why don't you be the first.

Collapse or Explosion? A Discussion of the WTC “Sounds of Explosions” Issue by Adam Taylor

Also, how come the seismic instruments that day failed to capture the telltale explosions associated with CD?

Already answered.

You do know lots of things can explode during a fire don't you?

ProBonoShill, what do you think was the cause of the percussive noise heard in the CBS footage and the Ashleigh Banfield footage? Was it floors partially collapsing or did a bunch of oil transformers decide to blow up at that moment?

 

[FalseFlag]

You believe high school physics teachers (like Chandler), when the topic is "structural mechanics".

I don't, but when the topic is physics he has my attention.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

The leaning "side"? Couldn't any slight perimeter deformation from heat affect the results showing this movement?

Also, where do they teach how to predict when a skyscraper will collapse by using this tool?

No, and in high school physics class, it is a matter of gravitational loading over powering the
Connections.

 

[DGM]

I don't, but when the topic is physics he has my attention.

Why? You admit you have no education in the field. How do you know he's not BS'n you? Intuition?

 

[MicahJava]

No, and in high school physics class, it is a matter of gravitational loading over powering the
Connections.

JSanderO disagrees. Topic seems to vague, anyway.

 

[FalseFlag]

Why? You admit you have no education in the field. How do you know he's not BS'n you? Intuition?

I am not an expert. I never said I never had any education in the field of physics.

Your statement is the apotheosis of the skeptic's modus operandi: they take a statement, and then twist it to have a meaning that suits their purpose.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

"If the strategically placed charges had been detonated below ground, they would have delivered about the same amount of energy as a magnitude-1.1 earthquake, a small blip on a seismograph probably not strong enough to be felt by people.

But with the charges positioned above ground instead of within the crust -- where the release of strain results in powerful earthquakes -- the Aladdin implosion didn't even register on the nearby seismograph at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, according to geology professor Dave Weide."

https://web.archive.org/web/2012100..._home/1999/Apr-11-Sun-1999/news/10963838.html

Where is the evidence of cutter charges or shrapnel on the steel, I saw none anywhere none was ever found or recorded?

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

That's what I'm saying, though. In the CBS footage, the loudest noise you can hear (which is also audible on the Ashleigh Banfield footage) is about 3 seconds before the East Penthouse caves in. You can't hear the rest of the building collapsing after that. A little falling steel vs. a lot of falling steel. That is, if falling steel is what truly made that racket.

That would be the column buckling and the counterlevered beam falling, collapsing the bay.
That can only happen once in the collapse.

 

[beachnut]

Collapse or Explosion? A Discussion of the WTC “Sounds of Explosions” Issue by Adam Taylor ...

You are citing failed 9/11 truth conspiracy theorists... There were no sounds of explosives. Darn, you should have researched this stuff, instead you have BS for evidence. 14 years of failure, add 9/11 failed claims to your list of failed CTs you have.

Wait, are these sounds of explosives?
Here are some witnesses from 9/11 describing sounds...

"Sounded like bombs" –Keith Murphy
"A huge explosion" –Gerard Gorman
"Sound of popping and exploding" –Alwish Monchery
"Explosions" –William Burns
"Kept hearing these large boom, boom" –Rosario Terranova
"Sounded like explosions." –Anthony Fitzgerald
"Like a shotgun going off" –Mark Meier
"Sounded like explosions" –Wilfred Barriere
"Sounded like bombs, like blockbusters" –John Murray
"You could hear explosions" –Richard Smiouskas
"Sounded like an M-80, that's how loud they were" –Tim Pearson
"Sounds like a shotgun" –Eric Ronningen
"Sounded like an explosion" –John Morabito
"There were lots of explosions" –Jeff Birnbaum
"Under the assumption that the sounds were secondary bombs." –Andrew Rodriguez
"Sounded like bombs. Like a bomb going off. I mean, it was huge." –FDNY Deputy Chief Peter Hayden

Is this your evidence for CD?

Got any evidence yet?

 

[JSanderO]

JSanderO disagrees. Topic seems to vague, anyway.

There were all manner of failures in the collapse of the towers... and they included connection failures, bolt shearing, fractured welds, spalded and fracture concrete... elongated steel pushing columns and shearing connection plates. The structure came completely "undone" in the end... the whole thing was a pile of failures... heat and gravity driven.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

I don't see any specific wind shear structure other than the belt trusses which encircle the building. The moment frame was stiff and probably was the wind shear structure... but the curtain walls are intended to be as light as possible and not a counterweight. I have never heard of this.

I was told that each piece of granite was two inches thick, and held in place by clips, is that correct?

 

[NoahFence]

Micah...
Was WTC7 collapsing the ONLY historical first that day?

 

[ProBonoShill]

"If the strategically placed charges had been detonated below ground, they would have delivered about the same amount of energy as a magnitude-1.1 earthquake, a small blip on a seismograph probably not strong enough to be felt by people.

But with the charges positioned above ground instead of within the crust -- where the release of strain results in powerful earthquakes -- the Aladdin implosion didn't even register on the nearby seismograph at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, according to geology professor Dave Weide."

https://web.archive.org/web/2012100..._home/1999/Apr-11-Sun-1999/news/10963838.html

That's nice, which building do you think was larger: WTC1, WTC2 WTC7 or the Aladdin?

How many pounds of explosives do you think it would take to bring each down?

Please show your math.

 

[MicahJava]

Where is the evidence of cutter charges or shrapnel on the steel, I saw none anywhere none was ever found or recorded?

Explosive devices designed to rip through solid steel are probably factored out. They are too loud and they leave obvious damage on the steel which was not noticed or seen in photographs.

As for "shrapnel", a while back I gave some examples of shrapnel injuries by WTC victims/survivors.

 

[MicahJava]

That would be the column buckling and the counterlevered beam falling, collapsing the bay.
That can only happen once in the collapse.

And why would that be louder than the entire rest of the structure crumbling to the ground?

 

[MicahJava]

That's nice, which building do you think was larger: WTC1, WTC2 WTC7 or the Aladdin?

How many pounds of explosives do you think it would take to bring each down?

Please show your math.

It would seem that only eight stories worth of demolition devices in the core would be enough to destroy seven. So, size doesn't really seem to be that much of an issue.