Brexit: the referendum

jimbob said:
I liked this

[Mikemcc - snipped the images to save space, plus not seeing Trump is a godsend...]
As the organisation wants this shared, I see no reason not to hotlink - apologies Mods, if that isn't the case:
[Mikemcc - snipped the images to save space, plus not seeing Trump is a godsend...again]
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Images like that are just scaremongering crap. We need reasons and figures for this not crap personalities that many don't like. I saw one that had picture s of IDS, Gove, Farage, BoJo, etc and thinking that was scary. Why? They four politicians, they will still be in politics after Jun 23 no matter what I vote. So what is the scare factor, if I vote one way or the other, does anyone think it will affect these thick-skinned, snouts in the tough, politicians? Not a hope in hell.

Please produce better arguments on the pros and cons. The figures bandied about so far are pie-in-the-sky (from both sides). No one really knows what will happen from a Brexit vote (we all now what happens the other way - status quo (bad music jokes aside)). No country with and economy of our size has ever done something like this before. It's new territory, but that is not an excuse not to go down the Brexit route.
 
Mikemcc said:
We need reasons and figures for this not crap personalities that many don't like.
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That was always going to be what we got, though, wasn't it? The sort of political circus that representative democracy is supposed to spare us.

As it happens, my mother and I have entered into a pairing arrangement (she's for out, I'm for in) and will not vote, thus avoiding association with either camp.

I saw one that had picture s of IDS, Gove, Farage, BoJo, etc and thinking that was scary. Why? They four politicians, they will still be in politics after Jun 23 no matter what I vote. So what is the scare factor, if I vote one way or the other, does anyone think it will affect these thick-skinned, snouts in the tough, politicians? Not a hope in hell.
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Whichever way the referendum goes it won't be over, any more than the Scottish question is.

Please produce better arguments on the pros and cons. The figures bandied about so far are pie-in-the-sky (from both sides). No one really knows what will happen from a Brexit vote (we all now what happens the other way - status quo (bad music jokes aside)). No country with and economy of our size has ever done something like this before. It's new territory, but that is not an excuse not to go down the Brexit route.
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Of course this means the uncertainty is so great that only a huge projected benefit justifies the risk, and there's no evidence of that being presented. Instead we hear guff about sovereignty, as if that ever filled a payroll.

Jeebus, two more months of it ... :rolleyes:
 
NWO Sentryman said:
Ultimately in the USA, it's the Senate who has the final say.
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A critical point. The Senate represents the States/Colonies which surrendered some of their sovereignty to the Federal State - and would not have done without that voice.

Boris Johnson thinks the States of the Union are pussies for surrendering sovereignty to a Federal State. He's even called for Texas to secede and got Mexico to pay for it. He also claims the US hates us because of our Imperial past and treatment of the Boston Mau-Mau rebels. He's on record as saying they were treated too leniently! :eek:
 
zooterkin said:
What makes you think he was commenting on what he could influence rather than the simple reality of the situation? Why should an individual country take priority over a much larger trading block, especially when it's put itself in a situation where it needs to renegotiate treaties?
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Why, indeed, should the US do a bespoke deal with Britain at all if it has an acceptable one with the EU? Any kind of trade deal is an epic endeavour given the toxic mix of diplomats and economists it inevitably involves.

What the US is not going to do is give Britain better trade terms than those negotiated with the EU. That would just annoy a lot of people for no good reason at all. Worse terms possibly, but not better.

Of course we could just sign up to the asme terms as the EU but do it in a more sovereign manner. Making Britain Great again, inch by inch.
 
CapelDodger said:
Why, indeed, should the US do a bespoke deal with Britain at all if it has an acceptable one with the EU? Any kind of trade deal is an epic endeavour given the toxic mix of diplomats and economists it inevitably involves.

What the US is not going to do is give Britain better trade terms than those negotiated with the EU. That would just annoy a lot of people for no good reason at all. Worse terms possibly, but not better.

Of course we could just sign up to the asme terms as the EU but do it in a more sovereign manner. Making Britain Great again, inch by inch.
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What the US will do is break the UK over and give the hard-high dollar - tight up the bank vault!!!

Don't forget, it is the US and not the England who controls the world.

Really...just try the Nasty Boyz from Yale and Harvard - they will destroy you.

Deal.
 
The Mail on Sunday has reported that even if there is a vote for Brexit Vince Cable has said that parliament will overturn that decision.
 
Henri McPhee said:
The Mail on Sunday has reported that even if there is a vote for Brexit Vince Cable has said that parliament will overturn that decision.
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I'm guessing you're referring to:
If there is a 51/49 vote for Brexit on a 50 per cent turnout, Parliament isn't going to allow Brexit on that basis. There could be messy outcomes where the way forward isn't at all clear.
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...which is slightly different to what you claimed he said.
This is MONEY

Hard to tell, as you Never provide a link for any of your incorrect claims.
 
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ComfySlippers said:
I'm guessing you're referring to:

...which is slightly different to what you claimed he said.
This is MONEY

Hard to tell, as you Never provide a link for any of your incorrect claims.
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Either way I think it's pretty bad to be putting unpublished conditions on the referendum in that way. There would be hell to pay if the vote was Out and the parliament just ignored it. Quite rightly too.
 
ComfySlippers said:
Hard to tell, as you Never provide a link for any of your incorrect claims.
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The exact quote from that Mail on Sunday interview with Vince Cable which caught my eye was: 'MPs won't allow a 51/49 vote for Brexit'. Interview page 83'.

Most of these politicians seem to be in the pay of Goldman Sachs. That Danny Alexander was knighted and is now a director of a Chinese bank as a reward for all his cuts and closures in office. Somebody has said that the top 1 percent on top pay are to be immune from bugging under this new snooper's charter. I don't think that's fair and just.

It's like there are car drivers in my own area who approach roundabouts at about 50 mph without signalling, and the local authority and police do next to nothing about barking dog nuisances. It's not right judgment.
 
Henri McPhee said:
Somebody has said that the top 1 percent on top pay are to be immune from bugging under this new snooper's charter. I don't think that's fair and just.
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Neither do I. But I would be most grateful if you could tell us who the "somebody" who said this is, and why we should pay attention to her or him. In other words, do you have a source for this very strange allegation?
 
Henri McPhee said:
The exact quote from that Mail on Sunday interview with Vince Cable which caught my eye was: 'MPs won't allow a 51/49 vote for Brexit'. Interview page 83'.
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.

Oh dear:
ComfySlippers said:
I'm guessing you're referring to:
If there is a 51/49 vote for Brexit on a 50 per cent turnout, Parliament isn't going to allow Brexit on that basis. There could be messy outcomes where the way forward isn't at all clear.
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...which is slightly different to what you claimed he said.
This is MONEY
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.

Henri McPhee said:
Most of these politicians seem to be in the pay of Goldman Sachs. That Danny Alexander was knighted and is now a director of a Chinese bank as a reward for all his cuts and closures in office.
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Says who?

Somebody has said that the top 1 percent on top pay are to be immune from bugging under this new snooper's charter. I don't think that's fair and just.
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Who?

Are you watching RT again or something?
 
CapelDodger said:
We're clearly in the doldrums of the campaign now, and weeks of tedium yet to come - if we allow ourselves to care. Which I don't intend to.
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I can't even remember when the bloody vote is. Perhaps both sides have realised that their campaigning is doing very little to actually influence opinion and have given up?
 
From a pro-European point of view, I hope Brits will choose the right option (exit) and let us continentals build a European federation in twenty years' time.
 
Carnby said:
From a pro-European point of view, I hope Brits will choose the right option (exit) and let us continentals build a European federation in twenty years' time.
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The stresses and strains of all this might just cause the Kingdom of the "Brits" to fall to pieces travelling in different directions; so you continentals may be distracted by fragments of former Britannia disturbing the tranquillity of the process of European federation building.
 
Craig B said:
The stresses and strains of all this might just cause the Kingdom of the "Brits" to fall to pieces travelling in different directions; so you continentals may be distracted by fragments of former Britannia disturbing the tranquillity of the process of European federation building.
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Irrelevant in my opinion, I'm not even sure the so-called Brexit will cause e.g. secession of Scotland (in a recent referendum the Scots have opted to remain in the UK), let alone Wales or Northern Ireland (where independentist parties are tiny).
 
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