The existence of God and the efficacy of prayer

[Pup]

Why go to a christian site for a definition of atheism? It's wrong, and it's self-serving. "Belief in the non-existence of a deity" is just wrong, wrong, wrong. There is no belief involved: there is dis-belief, but no belief. As I've said dozens of times on this forum, give me the incontrovertible evidence of the existence of a deity, and I'll change my world-view and move on. I don't "believe in the absence of god/s": I simply don't have any reason to believe in their existence.

If you want a definition of atheism, wouldn't you seek it on an atheist website? Why go to a christian website, PartSkeptic? And do you now accept that what it said was misleading?

The problem is that there are two meanings of belief, one like faith where the goal is to stay firm despite evidence, and another more like an opinion, or a conclusion one draws from available evidence.

The first meaning, faith, would make the absence of gods a matter of faith that the atheist clings to as surely as the theist has faith his god exists regardless of evidence. That's the straw man that theists try to stick on atheists, perhaps because it's what theists understand.

But the second meaning works quite well and I'd apply it to my own atheism. I believe there are no gods in the same way I believe there are no living dodos or humans colonizing Mars.

It's where all the evidence points, both a lack of evidence for testable attributes of proposed gods, and positive evidence that humans are predisposed to imagine agency behind things and to want answers. Add in the illusion of control that prayer brings, plus the political power that religion creates, and the evidence is overwhelming that gods are human constructs to fulfill various needs.

I realize that many atheists don't take it that far and merely say they lack belief in all the gods they've been made aware of. But that's why there's a hard/soft (or strong/weak or positive/negative) atheist divide.

 

[blue triangle]

Wrong. Personally, I have posted my identity right here along with my professional credentials and the means to independently verify them. I am not alone in doing so.

Where is this information?

Atheism does not have "degrees" of anything.

Yes it does. There is strong atheism and weak atheism, gnostic atheism and agnostic atheism. I've come across some militant atheists too, although that's more of a political position.

Nobody knows. Not even you.

Partskeptic at least acknowledges his, what you might call, agnostic theism. Many others here feel entitled to ridicule religion and religious belief, as if they somehow did know.

Were that true, you would acknowledge that you are pursuing a magic man,

A case in point.

Science does not claim to have all the answers.

But some people who regard all religion as superstition act as if they think it does.

Science does have SOME answers and those answers it does have actually work in the real world. What answers does faith have which work in the real world? None.

Some of the questions religion deals with, such as What is the meaning of Life? and Why is killing people wrong? are not within the domain of science. Religion has answers to these and many other questions. When people live their life as if it does have meaning, as religion generally maintains, then many of them feel that life does start to make sense, something that is worth far more to them than all the science and technology in the world.

Yup. I look forward to the day when humankind as a whole puts this superstitious nonsense behind.

I look forward to the day when people stop erecting straw men to burn.

 

[MikeG]

.........Some of the questions religion deals with, such as What is the meaning of Life? and Why is killing people wrong? are not within the domain of science. Religion has answers to these ........

You are making unsupportable claims about religion. Life doesn't have meaning, and religion's answer to "why killing is wrong" is "because god says so", which is no answer at all.

 

[logger]

Heck, My wife and I have traveled. We're successful. We have wonderful lives, enriching hobbies, give to charities (Time and money). I'm sure that makes us evil because we're also atheists.

No, it shows you haven't lived a sheltered life, which was my point, not some stupid prosperity gospel.

 

[Pup]

Some of the questions religion deals with, such as What is the meaning of Life? and Why is killing people wrong? are not within the domain of science. Religion has answers to these and many other questions. When people live their life as if it does have meaning, as religion generally maintains, then many of them feel that life does start to make sense, something that is worth far more to them than all the science and technology in the world.



I look forward to the day when people stop erecting straw men to burn.

Speaking of straw men... I've never seen the connection between needing a supernatural belief system and feeling subjectively that life has meaning. Seems a straw man to imply that intellectually knowing people aren't special means one must also emotionally feel that no one's life matters.

Why we feel that killing is wrong, is perfectly addressable by science, as is why we feel that killing is right. Religion encourages more or less killing, just depending on the specific beliefs.

 

[logger]

You are making unsupportable claims about religion. Life doesn't have meaning, and religion's answer to "why killing is wrong" is "because god says so", which is no answer at all.

An incredible statement. You're wrong though and I'm sure many atheists here would agree with you.

 

[abaddon]

Where is this information?

Right here on this very site.

Are you suggesting that you are search incompetent and you need a wowwipop put in your mouth?

Yes it does. There is strong atheism and weak atheism, gnostic atheism and agnostic atheism. I've come across some militant atheists too, although that's more of a political position.

As a subject matter expert I am sure you can describe to me what exactly the all believe in whoever they are.

Partskeptic at least acknowledges his, what you might call, agnostic theism. Many others here feel entitled to ridicule religion and religious belief, as if they somehow did know.

Read that back to yourself. You are actually claiming that one should be forbidden from ridiculing the ridiculous.

A case in point.

What in the blazes does that connect to?

But some people who regard all religion as superstition act as if they think it does.

So? All religion demonstrably is superstition. News at five.

Some of the questions religion deals with, such as What is the meaning of Life?

According to the holey babble, blind obedience

and Why is killing people wrong?

Killing people is not wrong according to the holey babble. The holey babble mandates it and demands it

are not within the domain of science.

Of course not. Science doesn't do fairy stories.

Religion has answers to these and many other questions.

Fail. What has religion explained in the last 2,000 years?Sure there are religious claims aplenty. Explanations? Nope.

When people live their life as if it does have meaning, as religion generally maintains, then many of them feel that life does start to make sense, something that is worth far more to them than all the science and technology in the world.

That one is anyone's guess.

I look forward to the day when people stop erecting straw men to burn.

Really? Cool. How about you stop doing it yourself?

 

[Desert Fox]

You are making unsupportable claims about religion. Life doesn't have meaning, and religion's answer to "why killing is wrong" is "because god says so", which is no answer at all.

An incredible statement. You're wrong though and I'm sure many atheists here would agree with you.

I would argue that i all depends exactly what both of you mean.

 

[Nay_Sayer]

An incredible statement. You're wrong though and I'm sure many atheists here would agree with you.

I would, Oh right you theists think your special little snowflakes and that the universe needs you.


Wait...your life has no meaning either though, Isn't this all just dress rehearsal for the big after show?

As long as you kiss the sky genies ass you get your ticket in right?

 

[logger]

I would, Oh right you theists think your special little snowflakes and that the universe needs you.

Special but I don't believe God or the universe needs me.

Wait...your life has no meaning either though, Isn't this all just dress rehearsal for the big after show?

The big show is certainly going to be exciting.

As long as you kiss the sky genies ass you get your ticket in right?

Lol

He actually really likes me so I don't have to kiss his ass. I'm sure I irritate him a lot, but I do that to lots of people.

 

[Desert Fox]

I would, Oh right you theists think your special little snowflakes and that the universe needs you.


Wait...your life has no meaning either though, Isn't this all just dress rehearsal for the big after show?

As long as you kiss the sky genies ass you get your ticket in right?

That afterlife where you are just kissing God's butt forever
Sounds pretty boring and sad.

 

[Nay_Sayer]

Special but I don't believe God or the universe needs me.



The big show is certainly going to be exciting.

Lol

He actually really likes me so I don't have to kiss his ass. I'm sure I irritate him a lot, but I do that to lots of people.

How do you know?

 

[logger]

That afterlife where you are just kissing God's butt forever
Sounds pretty boring and sad.

Unless it includes cutting timber forever for him. Does that count as ass kissing?

 

[logger]

How do you know?

Because I know him.

By giving me salvation, I don't have to kiss his ass. It was a free gift.

 

[Nay_Sayer]

Unless it includes cutting timber forever for him. Does that count as ass kissing?

Why do you think that's what you'll be doing?

what if he demands you to scrub his celestial taint till the end of time?

 

[Nay_Sayer]

Because I know him.

And how do you know him/her/it/horse?

I'm already dizzy and circles have not even started.

 

[Nay_Sayer]

Because I know him.

By giving me salvation, I don't have to kiss his ass. It was a free gift.

again

HOW DO YOU KNOW?

You make an awful lot of proclamations, Odin weaps.

 

[logger]

Why do you think that's what you'll be doing?

I don't

what if he demands you to scrub his celestial taint till the end of time?

That would be awful.

 

[Nay_Sayer]

I don't


That would be awful.

But your pleasing your god, You should derive nothing but pleasure from that.

Remember it's about his glory.

 

[logger]

again

HOW DO YOU KNOW?

Because salvation through Christ is not of works so that no man can boast.

You make an awful lot of proclamations, Odin weeps.

Odin's a cry baby.