The existence of God and the efficacy of prayer

[Slowvehicle]

You're assuming that prayer is a one-way thing. So you're in the 'maybe' camp then?

You are using the proper English gerund, "assuming", incorrectly.

 

[Slowvehicle]

I already said you could contact him through prayer, in this hypothetical situation. So now, would you pray?

First, show me the "proof".

If your mom were your dad, would socks still get lost in the dryer?

 

[MetalPig]

I already said you could contact him through prayer, in this hypothetical situation. So now, would you pray?

Ah yes, I misunderstood.

If this hypothetical 'God' were indeed different from what people usually call God and this hypothetical 'prayer' were indeed different from what we usually call prayer, and 'contact' means two-way communication, then yes, I might have a few questions for him.

 

[tsig]

It's a hypothetical situation. Would you pray and if not, why not?

Hypothetical prayer to a hypothetical being seems useless, hypothetically.

 

[tsig]

Anything you want. Think of it like a person adopted at birth meeting their biological father.

Never prayed to my father.

 

[tsig]

First, show me the "proof".

If your mom were your dad, would socks still get lost in the dryer?

If socks were gods would we pray to them??

 

[blue triangle]

Not a good analogy, as I could have a proper conversation with my biological father.

I said you could contact God through prayer. I didn't say God wouldn't answer you.

Would this hypothetical entity be able to answer my questions?

A dialogue would begin, yes, and questions might be answered. You would be the junior partner here though, so you wouldn't have an answering machine at your disposal.

Can this hypothetical entity affect anything, eg could it heal someone I love of cancer if it thinks I've asked it nicely enough?

Similarly to the above, healings might be done. But it's more to do with sincerity than niceness and it might be that person's time to leave anyway.

If not I can think of nothing I'd want to say to it.

It might let you know it was there if you prayed. It might let you know you are loved. It might arrange for an event to teach you something . . . If people around you got answers and you didn't seem to get anything there might be a reason for that you hadn't guessed. Would you really give up so easily if you knew God was there?

 

[Slowvehicle]

I said you could contact God through prayer. I didn't say God wouldn't answer you.



A dialogue would begin, yes, and questions might be answered. You would be the junior partner here though, so you wouldn't have an answering machine at your disposal.



Similarly to the above, healings might be done. But it's more to do with sincerity than niceness and it might be that person's time to leave anyway.



It might let you know it was there if you prayed. It might let you know you are loved. It might arrange for an event to teach you something . . . If people around you got answers and you didn't seem to get anything there might be a reason for that you hadn't guessed. Would you really give up so easily if you knew God was there?

"might", "might", "might"...that's quite a poke that pig you're selling is in.

 

[blue triangle]

My response would be to continue to wonder why you avoid answering questions.

I answer the ones I think are worth answering. Most of yours aren't, as much for the way they are delivered and the presumptions they embody, as for the lack of substantive content.

 

[fagin]

I answer the ones I think are worth answering.

Kind of like your hypothetical godthing.

Should we be worried?

 

[blue triangle]

Ah yes, I misunderstood.

If this hypothetical 'God' were indeed different from what people usually call God and this hypothetical 'prayer' were indeed different from what we usually call prayer, and 'contact' means two-way communication, then yes, I might have a few questions for him.

So you're in the yes camp. It took me a while to get a yes, but at least one of you did.

If God did exist in some form and prayer was the only way to contact God then it would be odd if you didn't want to contact him, when it would mean opening a dialogue with the Source of all, your heavenly Father.

 

[blue triangle]

You are using the proper English gerund, "assuming", incorrectly.

Clip clop

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

Okay, if it actually turned out (but it doesn't) that there is a "consciousness" listening, I might talk to it.

Unless it's that asswipe from the bible. Then, **** him.

 

[Delvo]

I said you could contact God through prayer. I didn't say God wouldn't answer you.

A scenario in which God actually answers would not be "prayer". Prayer is one way by definition. If you really meant to ask about two-way communication, then call it what it is instead of using something else's name.

it would be odd if you didn't want to contact him

Not at all. If that were possible, then other people would have already been doing it over thousands of years, so anything I could want to know would already have been explained to them, and thus I would already have heard of it and have no more questions left. And without unanswered questions to ask, God would be nothing but another famous name of someone I could communicate with if we met, but whom I have no reason to try to meet or communicate with: a stranger, like George Clooney or Angela Merkel. They're just not a part of my life, nothing special to me.

 

[blue triangle]

Okay, if it actually turned out (but it doesn't) that there is a "consciousness" listening, I might talk to it.

Okay, another yes then.

 

[The Greater Fool]

"There may be no god. Worse, there may be a god with which I completely disagree." (Ashleigh Brilliant)

If your god exists, it is definitely in the "with which I completely disagree" camp. I would not pray to such a being, I would accuse it.

 

[Slowvehicle]

I answer the ones I think are worth answering. Most of yours aren't, as much for the way they are delivered and the presumptions they embody, as for the lack of substantive content.

Is the reason you continue to avoid suggesting how your "proof" might be wrought that you know such "proof" is not possible?

Why not just proceed directly to your "gotcha" and hae done wi' it?

 

[Pixel42]

I said you could contact God through prayer. I didn't say God wouldn't answer you.

A dialogue would begin, yes, and questions might be answered. You would be the junior partner here though, so you wouldn't have an answering machine at your disposal.

What form would these answers take?

Similarly to the above, healings might be done. But it's more to do with sincerity than niceness and it might be that person's time to leave anyway.

Then how would I tell the difference between prayers sometimes being answered and what would have happened anyway if no prayers had been made?

It might let you know it was there if you prayed. It might let you know you are loved.

It didn't when I prayed desperately when I was 12.

It might arrange for an event to teach you something . . . If people around you got answers and you didn't seem to get anything there might be a reason for that you hadn't guessed. Would you really give up so easily if you knew God was there?

But I don't, do I? Your hypothetical is contradicted by a lifetime of experience. All the people who are convinced there is such an entity are obviously fooling themselves.

 

[blue triangle]

A scenario in which God actually answers would not be "prayer". Prayer is one way by definition. If you really meant to ask about two-way communication, then call it what it is instead of using something else's name.

I wasn't asking about two way communication. I was asking if you would be prepared to contact God if you knew he existed and if prayer was the way to contact him. I was asking if you would take the first step, with no expectations or preconditions.

Not at all. If that were possible, then other people would have already been doing it over thousands of years,

But they have, Delvo!

so anything I could want to know would already have been explained to them,

I never said God would answer all your prayers, either in my hypothetical situation or in real life. He might give an obvious answer to some of them but that is not guaranteed, or not at least in the way you want.

and thus I would already have heard of it and have no more questions left. And without unanswered questions to ask, God would be nothing but another famous name of someone I could communicate with if we met, but whom I have no reason to try to meet or communicate with: a stranger, like George Clooney or Angela Merkel. They're just not a part of my life, nothing special to me.

But everyone's situation is unique and every age has its own problems. There are always new situations, new problems, new reasons to turn to God.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Clip clop

Grammar and Lexicon are, after all, our only tools against the darkness. I apologize for going over your head.

Your error is that "prayer is a one-way thing" is not an "assumption", but a demonstrable fact.