jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
Supposedly the concrete under his feet is destroyed but he gets out with little more than a scratch.
Pitch black. And before that it was emergency lighting only.
If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong. Part II
- Thread starter Seymour Butz
- Start date
Supposedly the concrete under his feet is destroyed but he gets out with little more than a scratch.
Pitch black. And before that it was emergency lighting only.
Do we?
Here is your original post.
Originally Posted by jaydeehess
Barry said the lights went out and then something threw them around.
Now that you watched the video you still won't correct yourself. You are also not paying any attention to the words they are using.
Axxman300
Philosopher
That's not what he said, and this is the 50th time you've put words into someone's mouth. His point was that just because people heard what sounded like explosions doesn't mean that what they heard were explosions.
Many things sound like explosions: falling trees, car crashes, rock fall, and structural failure. The difference between something that sounds like an explosion and an actual explosion is often negligible depending on distance and volume.
The important difference is when you get into high-explosives. Nothing else sounds like them, and there is no mistaking them for anything else. Nobody heard the sound of high explosives going off on 9-11. This minimum safe distance for the amount of explosives needed to destroy even one of the WTC buildings is 800 meters, which means that had explosives been used then everyone within a 10 of a mile would have died, and people up to a half mile away would have been hospitalized. Windows would have been broken as far away as Brooklyn Heights, and Jersey City.
The NIST didn't test for explosives because the FBI, NYPD, FDNY, OSHA, FEMA, and the other agencies working the pile saw now evidence of high explosives having been used. If they had found evidence, the investigation would have gone in a different direction, and NIST would never have been called upon to look into 9-11 at all.
Explosive use is ALWAYS obvious. Not just the blatant damage caused by a cutting or shape charge, but there is a distinct odor that lingers, and residue that is unmistakable when one considered the colossal amount needed to bring down the building in the way we saw on 9-11. A quarter of the police and fire fighters on site had military backgrounds which meant they could spot explosive use if in fact any had been used. Nobody saw any damage from an explosive charge.
Nobody tested for bananas either, for much the same reason.
Nope.
In fact, why not ask the same people what they think today?
That's your department.
They heard what sounded like explosions. They did not hear explosives going off. Big difference.
They didn't test for breast cancer, ear mites, Jimmy Hoffa, or Jello pudding either, and we can ignore them for the exact same reasons.
If there was no explosion, what threw him from the 6th floor to the 8th? Are you trying to say there were poltergeists in the building?
Axxman300
Philosopher
TJM
Potsing Whiled Runk
Hyperbole.
Crazy Chainsaw
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The impact of the debris from the tower that fell on 7.
Show me one person who claimed they saw Jimmy Hoffa on 9/11. Also, please show me one person who claimed Jello pudding threw them from one floor to another.
Oh, one last thing. You have made claims about explosives regarding what should be heard and not heard. Please list your qualifications to make such statements.
ProBonoShill
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It sure does and proves there was no CD, anyone in the vicinity of the building not wearing advanced hearing protection would have damaged eardrums, those closer would've died from the shockwaves. Do you know anything about controlled demolitions at all?
Crazy Chainsaw
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Explosives produce supersonic detonation waves, explosions, it is really implied in the Name.:
ProBonoShill
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ProBonoShill
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Says the guy clueless about controlled demolition.
Axxman300
Philosopher
Your links are from Prison Planet, an unreliable website, ans Jennings might not be the reliable witness you want him to be.
This interview was recorded on 9-11-2001 with Jennings. Two things are obvious, he confused the collapse of WTC 2 with a separate explosion, and the most telling thing to my ears comes at the :57 second mark when he says, "I started praying to Allah..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LO5V2CJpzI&nohtml5=False
Hell, it's a clip from a Dylan Avery piece, so Troofers know it's legit. Either way, me thinks Jennings had an agenda in those later interviews.
I'm sure he heard what he though were explosions, but he couldn't see anything. More importantly, in the video above you can see Jennings wearing a dark suit with little to no dust on it anywhere. That means that if he was in WTC-7 he didn't exit until well after WTC1 had come down and the dust had settled.
ProBonoShill
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He has a functioning brain?
You do realize most of this stuff can be found by doing simple research don't you? Even better it's all here in this very forum.
I'd advise you to use the search function again, but watching you make a fool of yourself is just too entertaining.
Axxman300
Philosopher
Living next to Fort Ord for 20 years gives me all the qualifications I need to identify boom-boom. I can tell the difference between 60 and 81mm mortars, 105s, Bangalores, and a host of plastic explosives.
Using your own logic, just because nobody reported seeing Jimmy Hoffa in any of the WTC buildings doesn't mean he wasn't there. In fact, maybe that should be the starting point of the new investigation.
waypastvne
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You posted that video again, so i will post this response again.
The three firemen in this video were in the lobby of the Marriott Hotel when WTC 2 collapsed on it. Not being able to see the building collapsing they had no idea WTF was going on and mistook the collapse of WTC2 as an explosion.
The Marriott Hotel can be seen in this photo:
The firemen talk about 4 "explosive" events.
1 plane hits North Tower
2 plane hits south tower
3 WTC 2 collapse
4 Wtc 1 collapse
Tyrone Johnson is the fireman on the left. Check the number on his helmet he is with ladder 24.
Quote:
My name is Tyrone Johnson, firefighter first grade, assigned to Ladder 24.......
Then maybe about five, ten minutes later, we were ordered to go into the Marriott Hotel. At that time the company and three other companies in front of us went inside the Marriott Hotel......
We went to the Marriott. We got inside the lobby. The chief told us take your gear off, relax, until you find out what you want us to do.
Maybe 10 or 15 minutes later he gave us the command put the gear on because we're getting ready to head upstairs. There were about three companies in front of us. We were the last company to go up the steps. Maybe about five minutes into the process of going up the steps, that's when the building collapsed on us.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...IC/9110443.PDF
The firefighter on the right is James Duffy.
Quote:
James Duffy. CHIEF CONGIUSTA: Firefighter third of
Ladder 24 of the New York City Fire Department....
We were told to report to the south tower, but the only way to get to the south tower -- you couldn't walk down Liberty Street to get into the main entrance because of the jumpers and the falling debris, so we had to go in through the corner entrance of the Marriott, which is on West and Liberty. We went in there......
over there right next to us. 22 Truck was in the lobby also. Then we were just waiting to go into the south tower. As we were waiting, we looked up and all I saw was -- I heard this huge noise, and I saw hundreds and hundreds of people running towards us. They were running out of the south tower to the Marriott, to the lobby.
We just turned. We started to like run also. We got about ten feet before getting blown across the lobby. We got blown across the lobby, just got covered with debris.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...IC/9110444.PDF
Here is another quote from James Duffy the fireman on the right.
Quote:
Q. When either tower came down, did you have any advanced warning?
A. Oh, no. I didn't know what it was when we were inside. I didn't know the building had collapsed, actually. I thought it was a bomb. I thought a bomb had gone off. That's why I really didn't know until after.
Q. Afterwards?
A. Yeah, that that's when it came down. I wasn't expecting that. I thought it was a bomb or something that went off.
Q. Glad you made it.
A. Yeah.
Q. Thanks for the interview.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...IC/9110444.PDF
Jimmy Grillo is the fireman in the middle
Quote:
My Story, September 11, 2001
Once we reached the doorway I thanked God that we had made it and then entered the hotel lobby. There was a sea of firefighters all waiting their turn to start heading up. We knew we had to wait a while, so we loosened our coats and put down all our gear so we wouldn't overheat. While we waited, I noticed Jimmy Grillo, a member of our company, holding a five-gallon bottle of water, filling up cups with water so we would all be properly hydrated. Standing by, just waiting for our turn, I also noticed a bank of pay phones on the lobby wall. The lieutenant and I approached the phones trying to get a working line. We had a dial tone but all the circuits were busy. I even attempted to use my cell phone to get in touch with my family, but that failed. I was concerned about how much they must be worrying about me.
It was our turn to go up.
We started heading to the stairwell when this dark, overpowering shadow started heading toward us. It seemed as if it was in slow motion. People were yelling to run. My first instinct was to run away from the shadow thinking another plane must be coming in. I made a turn toward another lobby, trying to get away from the front of the building. Then I felt this force, like being in a massive wind tunnel. Firefighters were getting tossed around like rag dolls. I found myself being blown across the floor landing into what appeared to be a closet. The South Tower was collapsing.
http://www.newsweek.com/my-story-sep...11-2001-144971
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee...r-11-2001.html
The three firemen in the video were in the lobby of the Marriott hotel when WTC 2 collapsed on top of them
They never made it in to WTC1 or WTC2.
Note: this is a copy paste so links don't work.
Links can be accessed through this link.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11188337#post11188337
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
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Sadly trying to look through 10 years of Truther garbage means I can't locate what I want, but I did recover this....
NYPD Detective first grade Hal Sherman: "At Ground Zero the CSU is responsible for photographing the site, recovering physical evidence, documenting body parts and any other physical evidence like weapons or a wallet, manning the temporary morgue at the site (as well as the city morgue up on 28th Street), inspecting debris that leaves the site, and inspecting debris as it gets sifted out at Staten Island. ...All evidence is documented– airplane parts were essential to the beginning investigation, but now they look for hair, fibers, glass particles, semen, ballistics. ...We ID every part. Pillars and beams are swiped for hair, tissue and blood, evaporated body evidence. We have two police officers with mortuary degrees, and they are either in the medical examiner's office or the police lab, because you must be a sworn police officer to take evidence.
If you step on a fly ten times there will be nothing left. And here we have no couches, no computers, no chairs, no glass. Any small trace of anything is evidence. Anything to bring closure to the families. Human body part, clothing, jewelry, equipment and tools, anything. If there ever is a trial, we will be prepared. We've been here from day 1, and we'll be there well after the regular police officers go home, when everyone is packed up and gone." (p. 326-327)
Do you think with this level of detail and swabbing every bit of steel before it was sent off site they'd have missed signs of explosives?
Do you think that the NYPD and FBI, who both lost people would be lying about what they found?
FEMA reports the following things
As of March 15, 2002, a total of 131 engineer visits had been made to these yards on 57 separate days. An engineer visit typically ranged from a few hours to an entire day at a salvage yard. The duration of the visits, number of visits per yard, and the dates the yards were visited varied, depending on the volume of steel being processed, the potential significance of the steel pieces being found, salvage yard activities, weather, and other factors. Sixty-two engineer trips were made to Jersey City, 38 to Keasbey, 15 to Fresh Kills, and 16 to Newark.
Three trips made in October included several ASCE engineers. Eleven engineer trips were made in November, 41 in December, 43 in January, 28 in February, and 5 through March 15, 2002.
D.3.1 Identifying and Saving Pieces
As shown in Figure D-4, the engineers searched through unsorted piles of steel for pieces from WTC 1
and WTC 2 impact areas and from WTC 5 and WTC 7. They also checked for pieces of steel exposed to fire.
Specifically, the engineers looked for the following types of steel members:
• Exterior column trees and interior core columns from WTC 1 and WTC 2 that were exposed to fire
and/or impacted by the aircraft.
• Exterior column trees and interior core columns from WTC 1 and WTC 2 that were above the impact
zone.
• Badly burnt pieces from WTC 7.
• Connections from WTC 1, 2, and 7, such as seat connections, single shear plates, and column splices.
• Bolts from WTC 1, 2, and 7 that were exposed to fire, fractured, and/or that appeared undamaged.
• Floor trusses, including stiffeners, seats, and other components.
• Any piece that, in the engineer’s professional opinion, might be useful for evaluation. When there was any doubt about a particular piece, the piece was kept while more information was gathered. A conservative approach was taken to avoid having important pieces processed in salvage yard operations.
You think had there been steel that showed signs of explosive damage, they would have ignored it?
This page is no longer available sadly.... American Recycler: WTC steel recycling Excerpt: "Law enforcement authorities survey the material for evidence. Only then is it released to a scrap processor under an existing long-term contract with the NYC Department of Sanitation to purchase and then recycle scrap metal."
From the FBI - We collected over 7,500 pieces of evidence which were submitted for analysis. Working in conjunction with New York City agencies and authorities, we helped process over 1.8 million tons of debris for investigative leads and victim identification and took more than 45,000 crime scene photographs. The Report is their PENTTBOM report, though if it is linked on the Net I wasn't able to locate it amougst the rest of the rubbish. It involved involved 4,000 special agents and 3,000 professional employees of the FBI. Were they lying about what they found?
Axxman300
Philosopher
Again, FF has hijacked a thread to fill it with nonsense.
Take a look at the fallacy of CD in the case of the WTC 9-11 attacks from the basic level.
First, the WTC was a target of a truck bomb in 1993. This shook up a lot of people in NYC and other cities where high-rise office buildings fill the skyline. So why hijack airplanes if you have the capability to drop 3 skyscrapers in Manhattan on a Tuesday morning?
Why wait until most of the people have escaped to blow your buildings?
Why wait until WTC7 is completely empty?
Why risk having your detonators damaged and rendered inoperable by the impact of a speeding 767?
Why isn't blowing up a building full of civilians terrorizing enough? It would be for me. The idea that a team of people could rig multiple buildings with explosives without being seen and then setting them off would cripple most people with fear. So why hijack the jets at all?
Then if you have access to that much high explosives, why just one target? Why not place charges in hundreds of buildings, and the subway, and various Hudson River tunnels? You're a terrorist organization, or you're faking a terrorist act for some reason, so why not get more bang for your buck?
Why not hit one building in every major US city at the same instant? Sure, you don't get the body count, but if you're an evil government organization hell bent on undermining civil liberties, then that would get you to martial law faster than what we got on 9-11.
The logic of CD in 9-11 doesn't play out when you honestly consider the amount of men and material and effort needed to pull it off successfully.
Take a look at the fallacy of CD in the case of the WTC 9-11 attacks from the basic level.
First, the WTC was a target of a truck bomb in 1993. This shook up a lot of people in NYC and other cities where high-rise office buildings fill the skyline. So why hijack airplanes if you have the capability to drop 3 skyscrapers in Manhattan on a Tuesday morning?
Why wait until most of the people have escaped to blow your buildings?
Why wait until WTC7 is completely empty?
Why risk having your detonators damaged and rendered inoperable by the impact of a speeding 767?
Why isn't blowing up a building full of civilians terrorizing enough? It would be for me. The idea that a team of people could rig multiple buildings with explosives without being seen and then setting them off would cripple most people with fear. So why hijack the jets at all?
Then if you have access to that much high explosives, why just one target? Why not place charges in hundreds of buildings, and the subway, and various Hudson River tunnels? You're a terrorist organization, or you're faking a terrorist act for some reason, so why not get more bang for your buck?
Why not hit one building in every major US city at the same instant? Sure, you don't get the body count, but if you're an evil government organization hell bent on undermining civil liberties, then that would get you to martial law faster than what we got on 9-11.
The logic of CD in 9-11 doesn't play out when you honestly consider the amount of men and material and effort needed to pull it off successfully.
NoahFence
Banned
Any of these reports include explosives that can survive aircraft impacts and a towering inferno?
PhantomWolf
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Nice explanation. I predict it'll be ignored.