Creationist argument about DNA and information

Thanks to all the science posters here. I'm learning quite a bit. As others have said, there is an indirect thanks due to Daniel, too, for leading me places that teach me things (opposite what he claims, but things nonetheless).

It's all Gish Gallopy, of course, but I'm amazed how Trumpish it is, too. The loud bullying, the unsupported claims, the response to those who point out falsehoods by doubling down and throwing more false claims and insults.

It most reminds me of Trump at his laughable best: "I know words. I have the best words."
 
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.---
Teddy Roosevelt
Thank you Daniel. An excellent description of yourself as critic of science. It really isn't Daniel who counts. It's the actual working scientists on this thread who Teddy Roosevelt was celebrating in that quote, the doers of deeds, and they, to a man and woman, reject everything he has to say.
 
This interview with de Duve in which he discusses the background to that letter to Nature, and his views about the origins of life (he agrees by the way that RNA preceded DNA) is very interesting. Go here: http://www.scientificamerican.com/p...legend-christian-de-duve-11-09-09/?print=true


Oh that's GREAT, We have an Agreement!! The sine qua non of The Scientific Method :rolleyes:

Why didn't you say so from the beginning :mad:

It's too bad he passed or we could have emailed him and had him SHOW One "Functional" 30 mer RNA or larger that wickered itself together from it's Building Blocks "Naturally", spontaneously.

Then for a Bonus; he could have explained how Ink/Paper/Glue Molecules can Author Technical Instruct Manuals/Blueprints and how The Aerojet Rocketdyne RS-25 (Space Shuttle Engine) is just Emergent Properties of Copper and Iron Ores.

Then as a 'Topper', we could have "Agreed" on whether his favorite color was the Best or not. :)


oy vey
 
Oh that's GREAT, We have an Agreement!! The sine qua non of The Scientific Method :rolleyes:

Why didn't you say so from the beginning :mad:

It's too bad he passed or we could have emailed him and had him SHOW One "Functional" 30 mer RNA or larger that wickered itself together from it's Building Blocks "Naturally", spontaneously.

Then for a Bonus; he could have explained how Ink/Paper/Glue Molecules can Author Technical Instruct Manuals/Blueprints and how The Aerojet Rocketdyne RS-25 (Space Shuttle Engine) is just Emergent Properties of Copper and Iron Ores.

Then as a 'Topper', we could have "Agreed" on whether his favorite color was the Best or not. :)


oy vey
Or, more simply and to the point, we could have emailed him and had an AGREEMENT that you misrepresented his words and position just as you have done so many others.
 
Thanks to all the science posters here. I'm learning quite a bit. As others have said, there is an indirect thanks due to Daniel, too, for leading me places that teach me things (opposite what he claims, but things nonetheless).

It's all Gish Gallopy, of course, but I'm amazed how Trumpish it is, too. The loud bullying, the unsupported claims, the response to those who point out falsehoods by doubling down and throwing more false claims and insults.

It most reminds me of Trump at his laughable best: "I know words. I have the best words."
This language is especially revealing-
And....Why So?? Why not just ad hominem explicitly? :cool:

Go ahead and start a new topic "Irreducible Complexity is a farce"....and I'll stop by when I get a chance and take it to the Woodshed and Bludgeon it Senseless!! mmm K? (Even worse than the Bludgeoning in this Thread, if that's even possible).

You wanna make it REAL FUN ;)?? Since you haven't got a 5th Grade Science Acumen, email Kenneth Miller and tell him you have a Creationist here that's Pillaging the evolutionist brethren (a collosal understatement) and have him get all his ducks in a row...THEN post the THREAD!!! :thumbsup:

I'll get Medieval !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This isn't the language of someone who wants to have an honest discussion, this is the childish tantrum of someone who wants only to win an argument, and imagines that just claiming to have won it is enough to make it so.
 
Originally Posted by Daniel View Post

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.---
Teddy Roosevelt

Thank you Daniel. An excellent description of yourself as critic of science. It really isn't Daniel who counts. It's the actual working scientists on this thread who Teddy Roosevelt was celebrating in that quote, the doers of deeds, and they, to a man and woman, reject everything he has to say.
Kind of funny Daniel would say that about critics not counting, isn't it? When just a few hours ago, he said this-
I am the critic here...
 
Oh that's GREAT, We have an Agreement!! The sine qua non of The Scientific Method :rolleyes:

Why didn't you say so from the beginning :mad:

It's too bad he passed or we could have emailed him and had him SHOW One "Functional" 30 mer RNA or larger that wickered itself together from it's Building Blocks "Naturally", spontaneously.

Then for a Bonus; he could have explained how Ink/Paper/Glue Molecules can Author Technical Instruct Manuals/Blueprints and how The Aerojet Rocketdyne RS-25 (Space Shuttle Engine) is just Emergent Properties of Copper and Iron Ores.

Then as a 'Topper', we could have "Agreed" on whether his favorite color was the Best or not. :)


oy vey
Yeah, I know why you wouldn't want people to read that interview with de Duve because it shows up your untruths for what they are: not just misrepresentations, not just economies with the truth, but cheap, graceless, big fat porkies. To put it in the kind of boorish style you are so fond of, it takes your claims and hits them for a screaming six over mid-on.

Here it is again.
 
Or, more simply and to the point, we could have emailed him and had an AGREEMENT that you misrepresented his words and position just as you have done so many others.


Sure Sure. You forgot to mention: I was on the Grassy Knoll, slipped a message to the radio controller on the USS Maddox in 1964 in the Gulf of Tonkin, and convinced Napoleon that the Guerrilla Warfare Tactics (adopted from the Scythians) were no big deal, and he should attack Russia IN FORCE!!


Do you have a coherent substantive argument by chance or are you gonna stick with floating Op-Ed's "from the rail"??

How bout, What is Information...?? Show how it's Matter/Energy and put some in a jar and paint it red for us...?

"It put's the lotion in the basket"... how may kJ/mol is that? :boggled:


regards
 
Kind of funny Daniel would say that about critics not counting, isn't it? When just a few hours ago, he said this-


Oh brother, is that Un-Falsifiable or will it never be Falsified?? :boggled:


Why don't you take a shot so we can get back on topic...

How bout, What is Information...?? Show how it's Matter/Energy and put some in a jar and paint it red for us...?

"It put's the lotion in the basket"... how may kJ/mol is that? :boggled:

regards
 
Oh that's GREAT, We have an Agreement!! The sine qua non of The Scientific Method :rolleyes:
Actually people involved with or interested in science could say that the sine qua non of The Scientific Method is Disagreement :p!
It is through scientific theories not agreeing with empirical data that the most progress is made. That is how we got GR and QM.
It is scientists disagreeing with each other that leads to new scientific theories, e.g. the several abiogenesis scenarios supported by various groups of biologists.

Agreement is important in discussions, e.g. agreeing on the definition of a scientific theory as in textbooks (not ignorant creationist web sites or whether you got your "definition"). Agreeing on a definition of information that does not depend on the prejudices of one person introducing their conclusion into the definition. Etc.
 
Thanks to all the science posters here. I'm learning quite a bit. As others have said, there is an indirect thanks due to Daniel, too, for leading me places that teach me things (opposite what he claims, but things nonetheless).

It's all Gish Gallopy, of course, but I'm amazed how Trumpish it is, too. The loud bullying, the unsupported claims, the response to those who point out falsehoods by doubling down and throwing more false claims and insults.

It most reminds me of Trump at his laughable best: "I know words. I have the best words."

Many of the most educational threads on this forum and it's predecessor have been attempts to provide understanding to posters who refuse to learn. I. very much appreciate the efforts of our knowledgeable members.
 
Oh brother, is that Un-Falsifiable or will it never be Falsified?? :boggled:


Why don't you take a shot so we can get back on topic...

How bout, What is Information...?? Show how it's Matter/Energy and put some in a jar and paint it red for us...?

"It put's the lotion in the basket"... how may kJ/mol is that? :boggled:

regards

Oh, brother...you'd like to go around in that circle again, wouldn't you, and get yourself off an insupportable spot? Having a hard time with the question? Here it is again-
How would you falsify your hypothesis? Do you really think you have no burden at all to propose a test for your "hypothesis"?

Why don't you take a shot? It's on topic, since you yourself have been carping for pages about your idea of the scientific method. What about it? Can't do it? Or just never will?
 
Last edited:
Ok, so here's a question since he's reading my posts again:

Daniel, please explain why it is that your definition of what constitutes science is so different from that of everyone who actually matters in science - the scientists themselves, the administrators of the universities and government science laboratories and bodies, the philosophers of science and the people and organisations who fund science? You see, everyone who matters includes these subject areas in their definition of science and you don't: geology and astronomy and cosmology and evolutionary biology and astrophysics and palaeontology and General Relativity and... well, you get the picture. So the question is, since you are obviously disgreeing with the accepted view of tens of thousands of institutions and millions of scientists worldwide, and since you have such an extreme minority view, what, in your opinion makes your view right and everyone else wrong? Other than the fact that personally re-defining these subject areas to fall outside science is a simple self-serving fiction to assist in your hopeless task?

To those reading: Daniel is unlikely to engage directly with the question. He might cut and paste mined quotes from undergraduate course-notes on the scientific method which he will claim exclude the subject areas above from science. However, in every single case where he has tried that tactic he has already been shown that the authors of those mined quotes do not exclude the subjects he is afraid of. Moreover, the course-notes, which he mines, form part of courses in universities which patently do not agree with Daniel's private definition of science, or Danielscience as we have come to know it.
 
Sure.





My word, Straw Man Fallacy: we're talking about BEFORE you have LIFE!! Of course there's no problem when you already HAVE LIFE.
You already have the Cellular Structures... SPECIFIC Energy Converter (Mitochondria/ Chloroplasts/Metabolic Pathways) and INFORMATION Program (DNA) ALREADY EXISTING so as to capture, convert, and use the Energy meaningfully.


None of which are mentioned in ANY statement of Thermodynamics.

There are four laws of science that are considered the basis of Thermodynamics. I don't member any words concerning life, energy converter, or cells. Yet, you blithely state that the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics contradicts the process of biogenesis.

As stated before, many of the chemical reactions occurring in the cell have been shown to occur outside the body. There may be a chemical reaction occurring in a cell that appears no where else.

The hypothetical reaction still would not necessarily violate any laws of thermodynamics. The reason is that the laws of thermodynamics do not include any words that specify the living cell.

There are no words in the four laws of thermodynamics that in any way specify 'living cell'. The laws hypothetically apply on a macroscopic scale everywhere. The location where a reaction exists has nothing to do with whether the reaction is consistent with thermodynamics.

1) Just to prove your educational background, could you post the four laws of thermodynamics used by actual chemists?

2) Could you tell us what the important words mean without mathematics of any type?

3) How do you know anything about thermodynamics


4) Are you trying to tell us that you use extrasensory perception (ESP) instead of mathematics?

I predict that Daniel will not list the four laws of thermodynamics because he doesn't know anything about them. He read 'of' thermodynamics, not about thermodynamics.



Anyway, I am through with this thread. He can have his unjustified self esteem.
 
Yeah, I know why you wouldn't want people to read that interview with de Duve because it shows up your untruths for what they are: not just misrepresentations, not just economies with the truth, but cheap, graceless, big fat porkies. To put it in the kind of boorish style you are so fond of, it takes your claims and hits them for a screaming six over mid-on.

Here it is again.


Yea yea sure. I hope everybody reads it!! Understanding it (with this crowd)....Not Bloody Likely. So lets have a go, shall we...

Steve: That the early biological world was an RNA-based world.

de Duve: Well that's the conclusion of my fellow laureate Walter Gilbert, who got the prize for sequencing DNA. And he invented the world, RNA world, and that kind of theory has become extremely popular among all the experts in the field. Leslie Orgel was one, Stanley Miller to some extent, but just then the others and all the people really very much involved in this field had bought this idea of RNA world; I don't buy it.


Well @ least he has some sense.


de Duve: So, the question that I asked in Nature, "Did God Make RNA?" is still valid today because nobody knows.


Ahh Christian, we sure know What Didn't :thumbsup:


Steve: So did he?

de Duve: Well, of course not, I mean, I don't know (laughs) I mean, I don't know.


No waffling; decisive...Speaks from Validated Scientific Experiments.


de Duve: My belief is that early chemistry,first of all, my belief is that it was chemistry, because the problem is a chemical problem—how do you get a molecule like RNA together? Once you have it, it can reproduce itself, but how do you get it together?


It can Reproduce itself? LOL....Why, HOW???


de Duve: But, as a scientist, I have to take as a working hypothesis that this came about naturally and not supernaturally.


A Nobel Prize winning Biochemist and doesn't even know what a Scientific Hypothesis is!!! Priceless. Hey Christian what's your "Independent Variable"...your Imagination? Eyelids? Other?? :rolleyes:


de Duve: Then answer number two is this chemistry is biochemistry, because you see, that is what Stanley Miller and Leslie Orgel and all the people who work in this field do not accept. They believe that this is a special kind of chemistry they call abiotic chemistry which has nothing to do with biochemistry that created the first RNA molecule.


Hey Christian, they probably don't "Accept" it because to have the "Bio" in Biochemistry...you have to have LIFE ("Bio") First, Great Googly Moogly!!

Tell us sir, how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Pop...True or False??



de Duve: And my reason to believe that something like biochemistry had to arise originally is a somewhat complicated argument; but for the new chemistry to arise, the new, the biochemistry is based on enzymes; because all the reactions of biochemistry are reactions that would not take place on their own.


Oy Vey, AGAIN... How on Earth can you have BIOchemistry without the BIO?? :boggled:

ENZYMES, where'd you get those?? Start here sir
....

Of the ~500 Amino Acids (AA's) known, 23 of them are Alpha Amino Acids. All Life requires and exclusively uses 20 Essential Alpha AA's.

1. Please show (CITE Source) of the "Natural" Formation of ALL 20 Essential Alpha AA's from their "Building Blocks"....? (This is ONE of the dirty little secrets you never hear about, it's really quite mind numbing...but they know they can 'Whistle Past The Graveyard', because of the utter ignorance and "Blind" Faith of their target audience).
2. We could in-effect stop right here, but where's the fun in that.
3. Once you get all of the Alpha AA's "Naturally" (and...you won't), they exist "Naturally" as Stereoisomers...Enantiomers i.e., a 50/50 mix (Racemic Mixture/ Mirror Images/Chiral) Left Handed-Right Handed. But LIFE exclusively uses Left-Handed Amino's (There are Exceptions but not material and outside the scope of our discussion). To be "Functional" Proteins, you not only need their Primary Structure (Proper Sequence) but FORM (Secondary Structure) "Form = Function" motif. ONE "right-handed" AA in the chain Compromises Secondary Structure...aka: Football Bat.
In EVERY SINGLE OOL Paper with AA's/Proteins (and SUGARS---we'll get to that), take a look @ "Materials and Methods" Section ;) ... their other dirty little secret, you'll find EVERY-SINGLE TIME the word "PURIFICATION" or equivalent. Because they **sequestered**---if Proteins, then left-handed AA's are chosen...if Sugars, then right-handed ones are chosen, before they even start on their "a priori" fairytale.
**This is Investigator Interference and PROVES the need for Intelligent Agency!
4. The DeltaG for Polymerization of AA's to form Polypeptides is "Positive" i.e., Non-Spontaneous.
5. Peptide Bond Formation is "Condensation Reactions". Ahhh, That is....Peptide Bonds won't form IN WATER, from both a Thermodynamic and Kinetic point of view... Peptide Bonds won't form between two AA zwitterions, this is the form AA's are found in Aqueous Environments.

You'd have better chances resurrecting Alexander The Great's Horse than attempting even a cogent explanation of how this could be in the Galactic Universe of Possibility, let alone actually Physically/Chemically forming a 30 mer "FUNCTIONAL" Protein, "Naturally"!!
AND...This is even before we discuss: Primary Structure, Sunlight which destroys AA's (and Nucleo-Bases), pH, Cross Reactions, Brownian Motion, Hydrolysis, and Oxidation.

I suppose this is what the Grand Poobah of Origin of Life Research (Dr. Leslie Orgel) was referring to, when he said...

"However, solutions offered by supporters of geneticist or metabolist scenarios that are dependent on “if pigs could fly” hypothetical chemistry are unlikely to help."
Orgel LE (2008) The Implausibility of Metabolic Cycles on the Prebiotic Earth, PLoS Biology.

You/They were told this Years Ago, but didn't listen....

Dr Murray Eden, Professor MIT, concluded that, ‘...an adequate scientific theory of evolution must await the discovery and elucidation of new natural laws—physical, physico-chemical and biological.’
Murray, Eden, “Inadequacies of Neo-Darwinian Evolution as a Scientific Theory,” Mathematical Challenges to the Neo-Darwinian Interpretation of Evolution, editors Paul S. Moorhead and Martin M. Kaplan, June 1967, p. 109.


de Duve: So my conclusion was that biochemistry had to be prefigured already in the early chemistry, and so I'm looking for an early chemistry that could do something like biochemistry.


So there had to be BIO ("Life") chemistry already prefigured in early ("Non-Life") Chemistry? So a Married Bachelor motif? :cool:

de Duve: I'm thinking of catalysts that could have occurred under the primitive conditions and that could mimic what enzymes do, and I'm thinking of peptides—those associations of amino acids. The amino acids were there; Stanley Miller, showed it, they are on meteorites, the amino acids are available and how they got together is not so difficult, it's not a big thermodynamic problem.


1. Ahh Sir, Stanley Miller??...

a. Show all 20 Essential Alpha Amino Acids produced in this experiment...?

b. Please confirm the Fairytale atmosphere they used: Methane, Ammonia, Water vapor, Hydrogen....?

c. They used only 'SELECT' wavelengths of UV Light (Good Thing, because UV Light destroys AA's (and Nucleobases) )

d. They FILTERED OUT (using "Catch Basins"), natural process eh ?...the products. They made: 85% carcinogenic resin, that also included cyanides and carbon monoxide, and 2% amino acids. Mostly 2 amino acids...The amino acids will bond with the tar and others long before they bond to each other (good thing they filtered, eh?).

2. Not a Big Thermodynamic Problem??? :boggled: All execpt for this of course...

"Such reactions, however, are condensation reactions, requiring the elimination of a water molecule for every peptide bond formed, and are thus unfavorable in aqueous environments both from a THERMODYNAMIC and KINETIC point of view. In addition, PEPTIDE BOND FORMATION WILL NOT OCCUR between two amino acids in their zwitterionic form, the predominate state in a bulk aqueous environment."
Griffith EC, Vaida V; In situ observation of peptide bond formation at the water-air interface; Proceedings of the National Academy of Science, 08/2012; 109(39):15697-701


My suggestion, Take the Next 3 days off....then Quit.

Oy Vey, de Duve
 
Sure Sure. You forgot to mention: I was on the Grassy Knoll, slipped a message to the radio controller on the USS Maddox in 1964 in the Gulf of Tonkin, and convinced Napoleon that the Guerrilla Warfare Tactics (adopted from the Scythians) were no big deal, and he should attack Russia IN FORCE!!


Do you have a coherent substantive argument by chance or are you gonna stick with floating Op-Ed's "from the rail"??

How bout, What is Information...?? Show how it's Matter/Energy and put some in a jar and paint it red for us...?

"It put's the lotion in the basket"... how may kJ/mol is that? :boggled:


regards
You appear to be under the misapprehensions that I fall for your obfuscation, that I do not see through your intentional deceptions or notice your lack of both understanding and desire to understand, and that I am intimidated by your schoolyard tactics.

Those misapprehensions, of course, are probably what have led you to think that I am interested in a direct conversation. I would be except your behavior in this post demonstrates the futility of it. You lie in your quote mining. You lie when the previous lies are pointed out, and you ignore points you cannot refute.

So no thank you. I'll go back to the education I was getting from those who are both informed and honest, and I will use you as another in my ever-growing list of examples of how the behavior of the fundamentally religious is so greatly not to be emulated.
 
Ok, so here's a question since he's reading my posts again:


Well I had to stop with your IN-coherent "De-coherence" Begging The Question Fallacy Implosion on the QM Thread. There's only so many times I can refute 1 + 3 doesn't = 245,675.335.


Daniel, please explain why it is that your definition of what constitutes science is so different from that of everyone who actually matters in science


1. It isn't "My Definition"; SEE: Sir Francis Bacon et al. It's quite simple, "Science" is it's Method, The Scientific Method...

Step 1: Observe a Phenomenon
Step 2: Lit Review
Step 3: Hypothesis
Step 4: TEST/EXPERIMENT
Step 5: Analyze Data
Step 6: Valid/Invalid Hypothesis
Step 7: Report Results

Voila! That's it.

2. Please list the definitions from everyone that matters in science...?


the scientists themselves, the administrators of the universities and government science laboratories and bodies, the philosophers of science and the people and organisations who fund science? You see, everyone who matters includes these subject areas in their definition of science and you don't: geology and astronomy and cosmology and evolutionary biology and astrophysics and palaeontology and General Relativity and... well, you get the picture.


Well apparently, they have a Serious Case of Utter Ignorance and/or been hanging out around Power Lines. Post a Formal Scientific Hypothesis from each of those disciplines...?

If you can't (and you most certainly can't), can you explain how they can be Science without being able to Formulate a Viable Scientific Hypothesis?? Or does their definition of Science EXCLUDE...Scientific Hypotheses?? :eye-poppi (rotflol)


So the question is, since you are obviously disgreeing with the accepted view of tens of thousands of institutions and millions of scientists worldwide, and since you have such an extreme minority view, what, in your opinion makes your view right and everyone else wrong?


1. Argument to Popularity (Fallacy).

2. It's not my 'Opinion', it's what SCIENCE is for goodness sakes.

3. When are you gonna start posting these tens of thousands and MILLIONS (lol, btw) of "Scientists"--- VIEWS?? You know, to SUPPORT your Fairytale Claims here....?


Other than the fact that personally re-defining these subject areas to fall outside science is a simple self-serving fiction to assist in your hopeless task?


pfffft.


To those reading: Daniel is unlikely to engage directly with the question. He might cut and paste mined quotes from undergraduate course-notes on the scientific method which he will claim exclude the subject areas above from science. However, in every single case where he has tried that tactic he has already been shown that the authors of those mined quotes do not exclude the subjects he is afraid of. Moreover, the course-notes, which he mines, form part of courses in universities which patently do not agree with Daniel's private definition of science, or Danielscience as we have come to know it.


Are you on Sabbatical from The "How to conjure then post mind-numbing Propaganda University"/Politburo? Chairman Mao would be proud ;)

oy vey
 
You appear to be under the misapprehensions that I fall for your obfuscation, that I do not see through your intentional deceptions or notice your lack of both understanding and desire to understand, and that I am intimidated by your schoolyard tactics.

Those misapprehensions, of course, are probably what have led you to think that I am interested in a direct conversation. I would be except your behavior in this post demonstrates the futility of it. You lie in your quote mining. You lie when the previous lies are pointed out, and you ignore points you cannot refute.

So no thank you. I'll go back to the education I was getting from those who are both informed and honest, and I will use you as another in my ever-growing list of examples of how the behavior of the fundamentally religious is so greatly not to be emulated.
It's clear that Daniel has been intellectually clobbered in this thread. His adolescent tantrums, featuring big font, bold font, quotation marks, highlighting, etc. are symptomatic of defeat and are of no avail. He misunderstands the substance of scientific evidence and the scientific method. He does not understand mathematics, yet thinks he can debate QM and Relativity with those who do. He has amassed a superficial vocabulary (clearly from ID sources) of the evidence for evolution and tries to decieve knowledgable people here who see through all the lies and deception.
His position here has been exposed and is demonstrably totally bankrupt!
 
Thanks to all the science posters here. I'm learning quite a bit. As others have said, there is an indirect thanks due to Daniel, too, for leading me places that teach me things (opposite what he claims, but things nonetheless).

It's all Gish Gallopy, of course, but I'm amazed how Trumpish it is, too. The loud bullying, the unsupported claims, the response to those who point out falsehoods by doubling down and throwing more false claims and insults.

It most reminds me of Trump at his laughable best: "I know words. I have the best words."

You know, I've been kind of wondering why the Gish Gallops- after all, there's no time constraints in Internet discussion like this one, anyone can just scroll up to see what was said and respond to each galloped point, so...why the interminable posts (like this one, hoo boy!), with all the incoherent arglebargle, the weak, belabored snark, and the weird formatting, pointless double spacing, etc.? Just seems like a waste of space...

And it hit me- that is the point, to waste space. It's the Gish Gallop adapted for Internet discussion; people have a tendency to respond to the most recent posts in a sequence, and the more space the creationist can put between his post and the questions he's refused to answer, the points he can't address, the better. With a little effort, he can push the discussion to the next page, and start all over again.

Duane Gish would be proud of you, Daniel :thumbsup: Galloping for Jesus, you go, boy!
 
It's clear that Daniel has been intellectually clobbered in this thread. His adolescent tantrums, featuring big font, bold font, quotation marks, highlighting, etc. are symptomatic of defeat and are of no avail. He misunderstands the substance of scientific evidence and the scientific method. He does not understand mathematics, yet thinks he can debate QM and Relativity with those who do. He has amassed a superficial vocabulary (clearly from ID sources) of the evidence for evolution and tries to decieve knowledgable people here who see through all the lies and deception.
His position here has been exposed and is demonstrably totally bankrupt!

That's what I'm seeing from the cheap seats.
 

Back
Top Bottom