Continuation Part 21: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Planigale]

Er, you did. You jumped onto planigale's bandwagon when she/he claimed there was no police video of Raff's apartment.

Yet again you lie. I did not say there was no police video, I said I was unaware of it, and asked you for a link. Bizarrely you linked a video of a completely different location. Do you actually have a link to a police video of the search of Sollecito's flat? Or have you just made this up? Does to show a pail with cleaning rags and rubber gloves? If it does what is the relevance to the murder of MK?

 

[Grinder]

Curatolo was an intelligent guy who chose his alternate anarchist life style. There are people who have been addicted to heroin or alcohol for years yet manage to function on a day to day level, and it doesn't rule them out as being witness to an accident or a crime.

IMV Curatolo was a perfectly credible witness. I believe him when he says he saw the pair. Sure, his sense of the exact time is not brilliant, but anarchist free spirits don't tend to wear watches.

He wore a watch, a Timex. He looked at his watch when he arrived and left. He said the buses were still there when he left which is why Massei moved the departure time to 11:30 latest, because on normal days that's when the last bus left. Clear now?

Have you looked at the distance he would have had to see them? Heroin users have difficulty seeing because their eyes are pinned.

What I saw when I looked into her eyes was: her pupils were pinned.

The light was by no means bright.

Right away part of me wished I hadn’t looked. Her family life was falling apart, she said; and I didn’t want to know that she herself might have a drug problem.

Pinned pupils are a sentinel indicator of opioid ingestion.
​

 

[Grinder]

Yet again you lie. I did not say there was no police video, I said I was unaware of it, and asked you for a link. Bizarrely you linked a video of a completely different location. Do you actually have a link to a police video of the search of Sollecito's flat? Or have you just made this up? Does to show a pail with cleaning rags and rubber gloves? If it does what is the relevance to the murder of MK?

Scroll down.

 

[Vixen]

Now you're moving the goalposts again. Your post said "if you had your way" and I addressed that directly. But keep in mind that the Hellman court ruled that Quintavalle was not credible and BM acquitted the couple so I'm not the only one who thought Quintavalle's testimony didn't pass the smell test.

If you were a barrister, you'd soon realise everything "smells"; the masonic nod between the judge and the other barrister, the fact they were in the same chambers or drink at the same gentleman's clubs, the defense witnesses prepared to "fib" to get their mates in the dock off, the prosecution witnesses, policemen with notebook notes which all strangely appear to be identical with each other, the "fragant" female witness who cannot possibly be a liar, unlike the common tart witness whom noone can believe a word (Jeffrey Archer case), Barry Scheck types keen to undermine every little bit of DNA evidence, the expensive barrister QC silk, versus the pro-bono citizens law centre one, the horse hair wigs and gowns: get real, the whole bloody court is a circus.

If the above are credible, then so is Quintavalle.

 

[Vixen]

He wore a watch, a Timex. He looked at his watch when he arrived and left. He said the buses were still there when he left which is why Massei moved the departure time to 11:30 latest, because on normal days that's when the last bus left. Clear now?

Have you looked at the distance he would have had to see them? Heroin users have difficulty seeing because their eyes are pinned.

What I saw when I looked into her eyes was: her pupils were pinned.

The light was by no means bright.

Right away part of me wished I hadn’t looked. Her family life was falling apart, she said; and I didn’t want to know that she herself might have a drug problem.

Pinned pupils are a sentinel indicator of opioid ingestion.
​

That indicates they see better in the dark than in bright light.

 

[Vixen]

Yet again you lie. I did not say there was no police video, I said I was unaware of it, and asked you for a link. Bizarrely you linked a video of a completely different location. Do you actually have a link to a police video of the search of Sollecito's flat? Or have you just made this up? Does to show a pail with cleaning rags and rubber gloves? If it does what is the relevance to the murder of MK?

That's it, I'm out.

 

[Bill Williams]

That's it, I'm out.

Instead of bowing out, why not just post a link as you promised; to a video of the police search at Raffaele's?

Or is this another phantom cite?

 

[acbytesla]

If you were a barrister, you'd soon realise everything "smells"; the masonic nod between the judge and the other barrister, the fact they were in the same chambers or drink at the same gentleman's clubs, the defense witnesses prepared to "fib" to get their mates in the dock off, the prosecution witnesses, policemen with notebook notes which all strangely appear to be identical with with each other, the "fragant" female witness who cannot possibly be a liar, unlike the common tart witness whom noone can believe a word (Jeffrey Archer case), Barry Scheck types keen to undermine every little bit of DNA evidence, the expensive barrister QC silk, versus the pro-bono citizens law centre one, the horse hair wigs and gowns: get real, the whole bloody court is a circus.

If the above are credible, then so is Quintavalle.

First off, I'm not a limey. We don't have "barristers"here.

And second, I don't have a clue what the hell you're talking about. It certainly has NOTHING to do do with the credibility of what is clearly the false testimony of the shopkeeper Quintavalle. His testimony stinks.

The timing of his epiphany alone would make most rational people dismiss it. Add in that it contradicts both his earlier statements made to Detective Volturno and what his employees have said and well, the skepticism is reinforced. But lastly, the story makes no sense as part of a narrative of Amanda being involved in a murder the night before.

 

[Vixen]

No, I'm NOT wrong. Proof is in the pudding.

According to the Open Society Foundation on racial differences of sentencing of similar crimes with similar criminal history over the last 20 years they concluded the following.

There is evidence of direct racial discrimination (against minority defendants in sentencing outcomes);
Evidence of direct discrimination at the federal level is more prominent than at the state level;
Blacks are more likely to be disadvantaged in terms of sentence length at the federal level, whereas Latinos are more likely to be disadvantaged in terms of the decision to incarcerate;
At the state level, both Latinos and blacks are far more likely to be disadvantaged in the decision to incarcerate or not, as opposed to the decision regarding sentence length.

Young black and Latino males tend to be sentenced more severely than comparably-situated white males;
Unemployed black males tend to be sentenced more severely than comparably-situated white males.
Blacks pay a higher "trial penalty" than comparably-situated whites;
Whites receive a larger reduction in sentence time than blacks and Latinos for providing "substantial assistance" to the prosecution;
Blacks and Latinos with a more serious criminal record tend to be sentenced more severely than comparably-situated whites;
Blacks are more likely to be jailed pending trial, and therefore tend to receive harsher sentences;

Do you really want to go down this road?

If I may be flippant for a moment, this advantage has certainly worked well for Raff and Amanda and badly for Rudy.

Seriously though, when I studied criminology as one of my psychology modules, there is more to it than superficial skin colour or designations between Hispanic-Latino and African American.

There is a whole cultural ball game there. Mexico and Puerto Rico are amongst the poorest countries in the world. Mexico is marijuana and cocaine rich, so straight away, there you have a ready criminal subset. The African-American culture goes right back to when they were mere chattels/livestock and with only 2/5 (IIRC) property rights. As law is the ruling classes telling the lower classes what they can or cannot do, it is no surprise it's the lower classes filling up the courtrooms, whilst the upper classes get off with a nod and a wink for their crimes.

In the UK, studies show, if a female defendant is found guilty of a serious crime, the more attractive she is, the harsher her sentence, as she has breached social moraes. Where you have a couple who go "kiting" (fraud), the male partner is invariably seen as the instigator and gets a harsher sentence than the female, seen to have been led astray by him, although there is no logical reason one should believe this.

The USA were putting away children under life without parole until recently. It has one of the worst death penalty sentencing in the world, second only to China.

When you have simplistic figures showing, say, blacks get harsher sentences than their compatriots, there are also factors such as previous convictions, how they come across in court, access to good quality counsel.

It is something you need to tackle at government level. It's not the judges, it is deep set social inequality that determines the laws. Judges apply the law.

 

[Vixen]

Instead of bowing out, why not just post a link as you promised; to a video of the police search at Raffaele's?

Or is this another phantom cite?

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/crime-scene-videos/

 

[Bill Williams]

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/crime-scene-videos/

Thanks.

Can you point to the time-stamp where the video shows what you say it shows.

 

[Planigale]

You didn't even click the link. You just took the opportunity to make yet another reckless ad hominem attack.

The link worked for me. Do let me know if it is broken.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/crime-scene-videos/

To be fair to Vixen this does take me to a site hosting links to a number of videos this is I think the relevant one.

https://youtu.be/_NEFthVQbEE

1) The pail shows no cleaning rags
2) The police clad in white latex gloves seem uninterested in the white latex gloves in the bin almost as if they knew by whom and when the gloves had been deposited.
3) I note no knives were found.
4) No manga novels.
5) One Harry Potter book spotted.

So even when linked to the correct site it does not show what Vixen claims.

 

[acbytesla]

If I may be flippant for a moment, this advantage has certainly worked well for Raff and Amanda and badly for Rudy.

Seriously though, when I studied criminology as one of my psychology modules, there is more to it than superficial skin colour or designations between Hispanic-Latino and African American.

There is a whole cultural ball game there. Mexico and Puerto Rico are amongst the poorest countries in the world. Mexico is marijuana and cocaine rich, so straight away, there you have a ready criminal subset. The African-American culture goes right back to when they were mere chattels/livestock and with only 2/5 (IIRC) property rights. As law is the ruling classes telling the lower classes what they can or cannot do, it is no surprise it's the lower classes filling up the courtrooms, whilst the upper classes get off with a nod and a wink for their crimes.

In the UK, studies show, if a female defendant is found guilty of a serious crime, the more attractive she is, the harsher her sentence, as she has breached social moraes. Where you have a couple who go "kiting" (fraud), the male partner is invariably seen as the instigator and gets a harsher sentence than the female, seen to have been led astray by him, although there is no logical reason one should believe this.

The USA were putting away children under life without parole until recently. It has one of the worst death penalty sentencing in the world, second only to China.

When you have simplistic figures showing, say, blacks get harsher sentences than their compatriots, there are also factors such as previous convictions, how they come across in court, access to good quality counsel.

It is something you need to tackle at government level. It's not the judges, it is deep set social inequality that determines the laws. Judges apply the law.

What's bizarre is you are now proving my point that internal prejudices effect judges. Thank you very much.

 

[Bill Williams]

This started with Planigale protesting Vixen mixing issues and rambling about various factoids of interest which were meant to prove... what? That post of Panigale's is #35 on this, the 21st Continuation of the thread. Twenty-one continuations.

When it comes to where the mop was used, read it for yourself. Planigale wondered what mopping at Sollecito's flat had to do with he horrible events that same evenint at the cottage.

Vixen taunting PLanigale bu linking to a video, which (supposedly) was supposed to clear this up, and prove that Vixen was at least offering something salient.

This is how it unfolded:

Again you conflate different statements to make something new. Why do you do this? Do you need to convince yourself? You only do your case a disservice by making stuff up. There was no mop outside - no one said this (if you think they did find the testimony). Where is the coat testimony? The mopping was in Sollecito's flat what relevance has this to the murder? No one claims Kercher was murdered at Sollecito's and the body transported. So what if someone mopped at Sollecito's?

Herewith link, as you requested.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/crime-scene-videos/

Do please make an effort to familiarise yourself with how police progressed the case, instead of substituting your own guesses.

Another classic Vixen 'the evidence shows nothing like I said it did'! You said there was a video of a pail with latex gloves and cleaning rags in Sollecito's flat. You show a video of a completely different place. Do you not bother to look at any facts? You just make stuff up.

Really? You are unable to locate the police video of Raff's flat? Now I know you are taking the proverbial.

To this Vixen protested that she'd been victim to an ad hominem attack by acbytesla. That one went this way, when Vixen then cited that acbytesla had been saying that there was no police video, at all, of Raffaele's flat.

Again, it's not a personal attack. It's simply revealing the lack of veracity in your posts.

It's a pity you can't get your facts right. You just asserted that there is no such thing as a police video of Raff's apartment.

IOW you were hurling gratuitous abuse just for the sake of it.

I NEVER said anything of the kind. Is this a false memory?

Did acbytesla ever say there was NO police video of Raffaele's flat? I can't find it.

I also cannot find a video of his flat with the original mopping/mop claim in it, certainly not the one cited at the amandaknoxcase.com location.

Yet it continues - now it is Planigale who's supposed to have claimed he absence of that video:

Er, you did. You jumped onto planigale's bandwagon when she/he claimed there was no police video of Raff's apartment.

No, I jumped on the bandwagon when your link disproved your comments.

To anticipate the next item in the exchange, please note that it is not a matter that the link does not work, it is a matter that the video linked to does not show what was originally claimed - see top of the thread!

You didn't even click the link. You just took the opportunity to make yet another reckless ad hominem attack.

The link worked for me. Do let me know if it is broken.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/crime-scene-videos/

Regarding "Planigale's bandwagon", Planigale finally wades in.....

Yet again you lie. I did not say there was no police video, I said I was unaware of it, and asked you for a link. Bizarrely you linked a video of a completely different location. Do you actually have a link to a police video of the search of Sollecito's flat? Or have you just made this up? Does to show a pail with cleaning rags and rubber gloves? If it does what is the relevance to the murder of MK?

To be clear, that link DOES show a police video of Raffaele's flat. Yet the question stands:

Does (it) show a pail with cleaning rags and rubber gloves? If it does what is the relevance to the murder of MK?

Apparently not:

To be fair to Vixen this does take me to a site hosting links to a number of videos this is I think the relevant one.

https://youtu.be/_NEFthVQbEE

1) The pail shows no cleaning rags
2) The police clad in white latex gloves seem uninterested in the white latex gloves in the bin almost as if they knew by whom and when the gloves had been deposited.
3) I note no knives were found.
4) No manga novels.
5) One Harry Potter book spotted.

So even when linked to the correct site it does not show what Vixen claims.

Was all this worth it?

 

[bagels]

Do you think Massei would have changed his assessment if he knew Curatolo was a heroin addict for years, had been charged for dealing, was using that night and mentioned buses that weren't running that night? Does it bother you that Massei altered Curatolo's testimony based on mistaken assumptions about the buses?

Hellmann called him as a witness and that's when all the heroin issues came out. In addition ole Curatolo seeing them from 9:30 until just before midnight gave them an alibi.

Hellmann is also when Curatolo admitted he spoke to police asking around after the murder, and he said to them that he saw nothing. This in spite of the fact that he supposedly found the two young people, one female one male arguing in the cold for several hours not far from the cottage where a girl was murdered so peculiar he carried it in his memory for months, but he didn't mention it to the police? (for example, what if the girl was Meredith)

He's trash, just like Quint. Two peas in a pod with trash testimony that belongs in the garbage.

 

[Vixen]

This started with Planigale protesting Vixen mixing issues and rambling about various factoids of interest which were meant to prove... what? That post of Panigale's is #35 on this, the 21st Continuation of the thread. Twenty-one continuations.

When it comes to where the mop was used, read it for yourself. Planigale wondered what mopping at Sollecito's flat had to do with he horrible events that same evenint at the cottage.

Vixen taunting PLanigale bu linking to a video, which (supposedly) was supposed to clear this up, and prove that Vixen was at least offering something salient.

This is how it unfolded:






To this Vixen protested that she'd been victim to an ad hominem attack by acbytesla. That one went this way, when Vixen then cited that acbytesla had been saying that there was no police video, at all, of Raffaele's flat.




Did acbytesla ever say there was NO police video of Raffaele's flat? I can't find it.

I also cannot find a video of his flat with the original mopping/mop claim in it, certainly not the one cited at the amandaknoxcase.com location.

Yet it continues - now it is Planigale who's supposed to have claimed he absence of that video:



To anticipate the next item in the exchange, please note that it is not a matter that the link does not work, it is a matter that the video linked to does not show what was originally claimed - see top of the thread!



Regarding "Planigale's bandwagon", Planigale finally wades in.....



To be clear, that link DOES show a police video of Raffaele's flat. Yet the question stands:

Does (it) show a pail with cleaning rags and rubber gloves? If it does what is the relevance to the murder of MK?

Apparently not:



Was all this worth it?

A decent honest person familiar with the video will know whether it exists or not, whether there is manga, rags or knives in it, or any of the other things planigale swear blind is a lie. Note, there is no apology for claiming the video was a lie and that there was no link. I am not sure what planigale hopes to achieve by calling it all a lie when most people on this forum already know what the contents of the video are, so it only reflects on planigale that she or he is attempting to persuade knowledgeable persons otherwise.

 

[Bill Williams]

A decent honest person familiar with the video will know whether it exists or not, whether there is manga, rags or knives in it, or any of the other things planigale swear blind is a lie. Note, there is no apology for claiming the video was a lie and that there was no link. I am not sure what planigale hopes to achieve by calling it all a lie when most people on this forum already know what the contents of the video are, so it only reflects on planigale that she or he is attempting to persuade knowledgeable persons otherwise.

"What the contents of the video are." Yes, that's the point. That video does not show what you'd originally claimed. As to whether or not it is a lie, only you, really, can know your motivation.

Once again, in my opinion, you have offered a cite which does not back up your claim. Once again. On two occasions in the past you have acknowledged this, and have (in those cases) apologized.

 

[Grinder]

Hellmann is also when Curatolo admitted he spoke to police asking around after the murder, and he said to them that he saw nothing. This in spite of the fact that he supposedly found the two young people, one female one male arguing in the cold for several hours not far from the cottage where a girl was murdered so peculiar he carried it in his memory for months, but he didn't mention it to the police? (for example, what if the girl was Meredith)

He's trash, just like Quint. Two peas in a pod with trash testimony that belongs in the garbage.

Do you have a link to an English version of Curatolo's Hellmann testimony? I only remember reading news reports.

 

[Vixen]

"What the contents of the video are." Yes, that's the point. That video does not show what you'd originally claimed. As to whether or not it is a lie, only you, really, can know your motivation.

Once again, in my opinion, you have offered a cite which does not back up your claim. Once again. On two occasions in the past you have acknowledged this, and have (in those cases) apologized.

The video does show a pail of latex gloves and rags. But then you knew that.

It does contain manga. I am not sure why palanigale claims out of the blue, it doesn't contain manga, when no-one even mentioned manga.

What is planigale hoping to achieve by convincing knowlegeable people the video doesn't exist, the link was a lie and that there is no manga, rags or knives? She or he informs us the aim is to gratutiously call me a liar.

 

[Grinder]

The video does show a pail of latex gloves and rags. But then you knew that.

At 1:55? Doesn't look like a pail of gloves. Can you find any mention of these "gloves" in your beloved court file. My SO always wears gloves when washing dishes or cleaning. So unless the alleged gloves have something suspicious on them, so what?

There were also two cartons of milk. Why would anyone need two? Hmmmmm.