Bullish on Bernie: The Bernie Sanders 2016 Thread

[Trakar]

Sanders Crossover Support?

I read an interesting Guardian article where they interviewed a select group of Sanders supporters who intend(/are open) to vote for Trump in the general if Sanders loses in the Primary.

Article - The Bernie Sanders voters who would vote for Trump over Clinton

...Almost 700 people replied to the call-out, and some 500 of them said they were thinking the unthinkable: a Sanders-Trump switch.

They explained their unconventional position by expressing a variety of passionately held views on their shared commitment for protecting workers and against new wars, on their zeal for an alternative to the establishment, and on their desire to support anyone but Hillary Clinton...

But both candidates appear to have been effective in convincing voters that they ‘“get it”. Another CNN/ORC poll released at the end of February found that 46% of Republicans said Trump, better than any other candidate, understands the problems facing them personally. And 48% of Democrats said the same about Sanders...

Income is another shared characteristic. Exit polls from New Hampshire where Sanders defeated Hillary Clinton showed that the biggest fissure between voters was income. Among voters with a family income of less than $30,000, Sanders defeated Hillary by 48 percentage points but when the income was above $200,000, Sanders lost by seven percentage points. The Republican primary exit polls in New Hampshire revealed the same trend for Trump; his support was seven percentage points higher among low-income families than those earning $200,000 or more.

While I won't vote for anyone who I don't trust to support substantive action on the issues I care about the most, I can see the strategic advantage of having a four year Trump administration where he is made impotent by the senate, if not impeached, after the 2018 midterms. But, I've lived through the tragedies of the Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, and Bush administrations. Enough to learn that there is no such thing as predictable lessor evil -caveat emptor

What did catch my eye, however, is the demographics of Trump's support, and what social and political areas these Trump supporters were favorable toward.

 

[Brainster]

I used the word "disrupt" not protest. Even in public spaces, protesters are not allowed to disrupt, obstruct, or detain others. On private property, where most political rallies happen, the owner of the property (or the lessor) sets the rules. Trump's campaign almost certainly had the right to toss disruptive people (or anybody really) from the property, and if they don't obey a request to leave with alacrity, they are guilty of trespass and/or disorderly conduct.

What I'm not clear on is whether its possible to legally bind a protester even before a request to leave has been made. I suppose it's possible for the campaign to set up a screening process whereby an attendee pledges not to engage in disruptive behavior (including simply holding up a negative sign) in order to gain entry to an event. If the protester then engages in proscribed conduct, it would then be a breach of contract, subject to a civil suit.

It is a fine line, certainly. Perhaps it would be possible to charge a small fee (say $5) for entry, to go into the campaign's coffers. That would certainly deter Trump opponents.

But I don't think protesting, even inside the event is illegal. Certainly you can have them removed from the event; that's not illegal either.

 

[Brainster]

I read an interesting Guardian article where they interviewed a select group of Sanders supporters who intend(/are open) to vote for Trump in the general if Sanders loses in the Primary.

Article - The Bernie Sanders voters who would vote for Trump over Clinton

Both Sanders and Trump are populists, and they have the same views on trade, unfortunately.

 

[varwoche]

Didn't even bother to look.

The post in question was in response to your absurd position that not tolerating bigotry is madness and ineffective. It is not and had worked in the past.

Reading comprehension is not among your many (presumed) outstanding qualities.

Unimpressive in the extreme.

 

[Tony Stark]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/2258455a1c0dcc8c7.jpg[/qimg]

Reading comprehension is not among your many (presumed) outstanding qualities.

Unimpressive in the extreme.

Apparently better than yours given the fact that I said that liberals don't believe you should tolerate bigotry, you responded by saying how it is madness and ineffective, and I pointed out that no its not, that intolerance of bigotry works.

 

[BenBurch]

A "faithless" Virginia elector in 1972 that was pledged to Nixon instead voted for Libertarian John Hospers.

Correct. His name was Roger McBride and he was the LP Presidential Nominee in 1976.

 

[luchog]

Well, if Hillary wants to win this thing, she's really going to have to start keeping her mouth shut more often, since she's been putting her foot in it a lot lately. Just in the last week alone, she managed to anger a large chunk of the GLBT community with her comment about Nancy Reagan and AIDS; and now got caught in a big lie with regard to Sanders (either that or she's trying to emulate Ronnie's Alzheimer's along with his economic and foreign policies).

Don't know how much either of those will hurt her campaign; but she's really not doing herself any favours with her off-the-cuff remarks.

 

[Dog Town]

http://time.com/4256782/snl-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders/

100% accurate!

 

[BenBurch]

Well, if Hillary wants to win this thing, she's really going to have to start keeping her mouth shut more often, since she's been putting her foot in it a lot lately. Just in the last week alone, she managed to anger a large chunk of the GLBT community with her comment about Nancy Reagan and AIDS; and now got caught in a big lie with regard to Sanders (either that or she's trying to emulate Ronnie's Alzheimer's along with his economic and foreign policies).

Don't know how much either of those will hurt her campaign; but she's really not doing herself any favours with her off-the-cuff remarks.

As I pointed out just now in the Hillary thread, I am not sure those were lies. Perhaps her memory really is that terrible? And I find that alarming, but I cannot decide if simply lying would be less or more alarming?

 

[varwoche]

Apparently better than yours given the fact that I said that liberals don't believe you should tolerate bigotry, you responded by saying how it is madness and ineffective, and I pointed out that no its not, that intolerance of bigotry works.

This is a gross misrepresentation of our exchange. Notwithstanding, guess who else disagrees with you...

I happen not to believe that people should disrupt anyone's meetings.

Bernie, specifically in regard to events at Trump rally. I'm entirely not surprised he would say this, because he's a decent and intelligent person. I should have just posted this as my own words and grabbed a bag of popcorn. Maybe next time.

 

[Tony Stark]

This is a gross misrepresentation of our exchange. Notwithstanding, guess who else disagrees with you...

Bernie, specifically in regard to events at Trump rally. I'm entirely not surprised he would say this, because he's a decent and intelligent person. I should have just posted this as my own words and grabbed a bag of popcorn. Maybe next time.

Nope, that's exactly what happened.

And so what, I like Bernie Sanders but that doesn't mean I have to agree with about everything.

 

[BenBurch]

Appears that Sanders may win Hillary's home state, Illinois...

 

[d4m10n]

How many Trump supporters have been infiltrating Sanders' events, trying to get them shut down?

 

[BenBurch]

How many Trump supporters have been infiltrating Sanders' events, trying to get them shut down?

Trouble is once they start listening, they stop being Trump supporters...

 

[BenBurch]

And besides, how is Trump to follow in Hitler's footsteps unless he blames a Jew for all of his troubles?

 

[Manopolus]

Michigan was way off, yes. Have any other primaries or caucuses been off by more than the margin of error? You are putting too much stock into an anomaly becoming the new normal. Perhaps you will turn out to be correct, but I'm going to go with people like Nate Silver until such time.

Umm... yes.

The last poll in Kansas prior to March 5th gave Bernie Sanders a 1% edge. He won 67%-33%. Any other questions?

 

[Manopolus]

I've seen a lot of posturing about never voting for Clinton, but I suspect that a lot of those people will realize how bad a Trump presidency will be, and not follow through with their pledge. Heck, we already have Republicans already saying that Clinton will be better than Trump for the country, combined with the Democrats. (cue standard they're all the same/Clinton is a right-leaning candidate rant from the usual suspects)

It's an insurgent year. If we let Republican have the only insurgent candidate, they have a bigger chance of winning. It really is that simple. If we don't use the energy from a unique campaign, we will lose -- if only because people wrongly assume that Trump has no chance in hell of winning and thus don't bother going to the effort of voting.

People don't vote AGAINST a candidate -- they vote FOR a candidate. It's the same freaking thing that was going on when we assumed that John Kerry had a better chance of winning than anyone else 12 years ago. Guess what -- he LOST.

 

[Dog Town]

Appears that Sanders may win Hillary's home state, Illinois...

What is it they say in politics, about not being able to win your home state?
Although, she is a carpetbagger all over!
Ohio looks good too.


It aint over yet! The west is the best...
Pick one and suck...

 

[wareyin]

Umm... yes.

The last poll in Kansas prior to March 5th gave Bernie Sanders a 1% edge. He won 67%-33%. Any other questions?

I see, you are going by single polls, no matter their historical accuracy, whereas I'm going by polling aggregates.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

People don't vote AGAINST a candidate -- they vote FOR a candidate.

No. I voted AGAINST John McCain (actually Sarah Palin) in 2008.