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Miracle of the Shroud V - Blood and Limestone

And that pretty much sums it up very nicely.

I, personally, couldn't care less about debates concerning the authenticity of the cloth. It's a fake. End of. Religious twaddle has no place in real life.
If others wish to do so, I wish them fun.

I read this thread just to marvel at the gobsmackingly rude and dishonest way it was presented. Jabba has no intention whatsoever of debating the rag in question. It's been a childish game for him from the outset.

Why there wasn't a bigger outcry over his genuine reason for this thread, i.e. to misrepresent others' views on his personal blog of gibberish, I found baffling.

Hopefully now the number of pointless attempts to honestly debate with him will decline. I think there are bigger questions to be asked and apologies to be given.

I know that the "Here is why skeptics are wrong. Look, I have invented an analogy that has stumped them" routine is on the increase. The religious dingbats are, imo, using it more than ever. Like a soldier about to be killed rattling off his last few rounds.

Unfortunately these analogies always make their inventor look even more desperate. They are always hopelessly, and laughably, wrong.

It's all very Kent Hovind / any creationist you care to mention. One of them invents a flawed analogy, resulting in laughter all round at its sheer wrongness, the rest of the crowd continue to parrot it.

I think that is one of Jabba's goals. To invent the ultimate list of stock-answers to beat the meanies and easily prove that the magic floaty-man cloth is really really real.

Except he hasn't found a single valid stock answer.

It's actually sad. He's got to the point where there is no turning back. How can he now find the right words to make peace after five long threads of lies, evasion and obfuscation? Some folks could, but not many, I surmise.
 
Why there wasn't a bigger outcry over his genuine reason for this thread, i.e. to misrepresent others' views on his personal blog of gibberish, I found baffling.

A loophole in the rules. We aren't supposed to idly question the motives of posters; we're supposed to assume they're sincere (if perhaps irrational). We aren't supposed to discuss other sites and blogs here by proxy.

Overall we're supposed to direct our comments against the proponents' arguments made here. But therein lies the quandary. Jabba participates in the discussion here just enough to keep it going. He presents arguments here, collects the responses, and publishes them elsewhere beyond the reach of any of the other participants. Normally it would be a legitimate rejoinder to point out how Jabba has misrepresented his critics. That misrepresentation constitutes an argument, and addressing it is relevant and not ad hominem. But the misrepresentation hasn't occurred here.

He's found a perfect way to game this forum and disenfranchise his interlocutors in order to achieve his ends. In other words, he's lying for Jesus.
 


Except he hasn't found a single valid stock answer.

It's actually sad. He's got to the point where there is no turning back. How can he now find the right words to make peace after five long threads of lies, evasion and obfuscation? Some folks could, but not many, I surmise.

"Bobby Ewing...you're ALIVE?"
 

Except he hasn't found a single valid stock answer.

It's actually sad. He's got to the point where there is no turning back. How can he now find the right words to make peace after five long threads of lies, evasion and obfuscation? Some folks could, but not many, I surmise.

It is, indeed, very sad. I have no idea what would convince a person that this was ever a good plan. Maybe he gets brownie points from another religious nutter for doing it. I'm sure I saw some congratulatory posts to him on his blog.

Come to think of it... The method he's been employing is a bit scientology-esque. No matter how ridiculous and wrong your assertions are, repeat them often enough and people will believe them. While in reality the people are laughing their collective noses off

His list of stock-answers doesn't need to be correct. That's not the goal.
Kent Hovind doesn't believe his own ridiculous come-backs, but he can convince the less mentally capable in his flock.
 
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Foundational Stuff/Evidence

- Here's my story, and I'm s-s-stickin to it!
"Come heck or high water", eh?
- Just kidding.

Slowvehicle,

- I've probably tried this before, but if so, I'd like to try again.

- I'll focus on your arguments.
- We will each lead a sub-thread. For now, in my sub-thread, I'll keep trying to convince you that my understanding of circumstantial evidence is correct.
- You can lead anywhere you want in your sub-thread, and I'll do my best to answer all your questions and comments -- but only one (or two?) at a time. (It would be good if you could either present them one or two at a time, or tell me which QC(s) to answer first.)
- I assume that you would like me to start presenting what I consider to be evidence for authenticity... But again, that's up to you.
- On my part, I'll start by trying to respond to your QCs presented in your post above.

- I'll be back.
 
#icanhazevidenz

edited to add.....

Then again I was doing some hiking recently, got a bit careless and managed to cut myself. My walking jacket is now covered in traces of blood and limestone - I had no idea it was the burial cloth of Jesus

Did you, by any chance, take a bit of a tumble and then...rise again?
 
- Just kidding.



Slowvehicle,



- I've probably tried this before, but if so, I'd like to try again.



- I'll focus on your arguments.

- We will each lead a sub-thread. For now, in my sub-thread, I'll keep trying to convince you that my understanding of circumstantial evidence is correct.

- You can lead anywhere you want in your sub-thread, and I'll do my best to answer all your questions and comments -- but only one (or two?) at a time. (It would be good if you could either present them one or two at a time, or tell me which QC(s) to answer first.)

- I assume that you would like me to start presenting what I consider to be evidence for authenticity... But again, that's up to you.

- On my part, I'll start by trying to respond to your QCs presented in your post above.



- I'll be back.


See what I mean?!

Hands up who saw this post and shook their head in disbelief?
 
I've probably tried this before, but if so, I'd like to try again.

Fringe reset.

I'll focus on your arguments.

You announce that you plan to ignore your critics. You are posting in a public forum on a controversial subject. Everyone has a right to their say, including people you'd prefer not to talk to.

We will each lead a sub-thread.

No such provision in the forum rules. You're not a moderator and neither is Slowvehicle. Stop trying to win the debate by controlling it.

I'll keep trying to convince you that my understanding of circumstantial evidence is correct.

It isn't, for the reasons already given. Convincing someone that your understanding is correct requires you to address those reasons, which you refuse to do.

I'll do my best to answer all your questions and comments -- but only one (or two?) at a time.

No, you don't get to pick and choose which questions you'll pay attention to. If you have time to do this, you have time to address all comers.

I assume that you would like me to start presenting what I consider to be evidence for authenticity... But again, that's up to you.

No, it's no one's fault but yours that you refuse to present evidence or participate in the discussion. You have explicitly told us that you will not post evidence until we agree to your various contrived terms. That is unacceptable. If you will not present evidence, then you have no business being here.
 
Problem is, he may take that as "winning" as no one is able to respond to his illogical (and sometimes downright wrong) posts

I think he'll take it as winning no matter what. We'll never convince him, no lurker reading this thread will ever be under the impression that he was right in the end, and so basically we're just using electricity at this point.

Why do you hate the planet? ;)
 
Problem is, he may take that as "winning" as no one is able to respond to his illogical (and sometimes downright wrong) posts

The secret is there's no action or inaction we can take that won't result in Jabba declaring victory. I've given examples above of his selective interpretation and memory of this debate. When you're dealing with such a delusion, there is simply no path to legitimate victory.
 
[N]o lurker reading this thread will ever be under the impression that he was right in the end...

Which is why he has to lie about the debate at his own site, to which he will undoubtedly direct anyone who asks about his participation here. He cannot control the impression a reader gets by reading this thread here, but he can definitely control it by posting and promoting an edited version. He doesn't like the outcome here, so he just lies about it.
 
I think he'll take it as winning no matter what. We'll never convince him, no lurker reading this thread will ever be under the impression that he was right in the end, and so basically we're just using electricity at this point.

Why do you hate the planet? ;)

Why not let him "win"? If everybody would agree with everything he says, all the time, he might go away. You have nothing to lose but your ego, something I've often found to be an unaffordable and/or awkward luxury.

Oh crap!
 
Why not let him "win"?

He's lost four years ago to everyone but himself, something that's not bound to change anyway. What possible outcome would going on have?

We've asked for evidence for ages, now. At the very least we should stop addressing his evasions and ONLY ask for evidence.
 

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