Continuation Part 20: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Grinder]

I sort of recall all this and ejected it from my memory as irrelevant. Like the reports of some crazy guy saying he killed her in the town square.

Tesla - I only brought this forward because of the time the police were at Lana's investigating the crank call. It is possible Rudi saw the police car and tossed the phones not realizing he was throwing them where the police were. This was done because it seemed bagels might be interested, but it seems he no longer is pursuing this angle.

 

[acbytesla]

Tesla - I only brought this forward because of the time the police were at Lana's investigating the crank call. It is possible Rudi saw the police car and tossed the phones not realizing he was throwing them where the police were. This was done because it seemed bagels might be interested, but it seems he no longer is pursuing this angle.

I get it and that makes sense. I think Query Grind referred to it though as maybe somehow it was more than a coincidence.

 

[Grinder]

I get it and that makes sense. I think Query Grind referred to it though as maybe somehow it was more than a coincidence.

Oh I couldn't have noticed

 

[acbytesla]

Oh I couldn't have noticed

I think they all are starting to run out of gas.

 

[Desert Fox]

I think they all are starting to run out of gas.

Amanda and Raff are free - Even if they admitted tomorrow to murdering Meredeth with evidence, they cannot be tried criminally again. This case should have been buried as soon as thy were acquitted. There may be little tidbits such as when the ECHR comes up or if Amanda becomes further involved in wrongful convictions but nothing major.

 

[acbytesla]

Amanda and Raff are free - Even if they admitted tomorrow to murdering Meredeth with evidence, they cannot be tried criminally again. This case should have been buried as soon as thy were acquitted. There may be little tidbits such as when the ECHR comes up or if Amanda becomes further involved in wrongful convictions but nothing major.

Vixen gave a little steam for a while. Mach is petering out. Query is new but I don't expect him to last. Figure the thread will be closed in 4 to 6 months.

 

[query grind]

Vixen gave a little steam for a while. Mach is petering out. Query is new but I don't expect him to last.

Well I very much hope I don't. I really only registered to see if grinder would give me the detail of an early newspaper report he posted and then deleted. Namely that the first reports of the autopsy of Meredith Kercher recorded traces of semen on vagina and anus. Since this would indicate that Dr Stefanoni had mislabelled an oral swab which had traces of Rudy Guede kissing Meredith Kercher as a vaginal swab - the socalled "naughty finger". I have found an Italian report that stops short of saying that as explicitly as Grinder's English report

Since Grinder doesn't seem likely to oblige, then there isn't much point to stick around.

This may come as some surprise to you acbytesla, but I, like most normal people, view apologists for smashing a young woman's face into a closet and then anally raping her as utter social pariahs.

 

[Grinder]

Well I very much hope I don't. I really only registered to see if grinder would give me the detail of an early newspaper report he posted and then deleted. Namely that the first reports of the autopsy of Meredith Kercher recorded traces of semen on vagina and anus. Since this would indicate that Dr Stefanoni had mislabelled an oral swab which had traces of Rudy Guede kissing Meredith Kercher as a vaginal swab - the socalled "naughty finger". I have found an Italian report that stops short of saying that as explicitly as Grinder's English report

Since Grinder doesn't seem likely to oblige, then there isn't much point to stick around.

This may come as some surprise to you acbytesla, but I, like most normal people, view apologists for smashing a young woman's face into a closet and then anally raping her as utter social pariahs.

I never posted the alleged article nor have I ever deleted any article.

The Skype conversation contained dialogue that clearly indicated both Rudi and Giacomo had read reports of 'sperm' being found and Rudi insisted it couldn't have been his.

I believe others found Italian accounts.

 

[query grind]

I never posted the alleged article nor have I ever deleted any article.
.

Mmmmm. Well if you ever change your mind you can email it to me on freerudyguede {-at-}gmail

Think it over.

 

[Bill Williams]

Amanda and Raff are free - Even if they admitted tomorrow to murdering Meredeth with evidence, they cannot be tried criminally again. This case should have been buried as soon as thy were acquitted. There may be little tidbits such as when the ECHR comes up or if Amanda becomes further involved in wrongful convictions but nothing major.

Vixen gave a little steam for a while. Mach is petering out. Query is new but I don't expect him to last. Figure the thread will be closed in 4 to 6 months.

Query seems to want to call people racists, mainly as a cover to distract from some very speculative opinions. He also seems to think that other posters have posted things, then deleted them. No one other than Query seems to know what that is all about. He also seems to want to makes suggestions about other posters here that beg the question.

 

[acbytesla]

Well I very much hope I don't. I really only registered to see if grinder would give me the detail of an early newspaper report he posted and then deleted. Namely that the first reports of the autopsy of Meredith Kercher recorded traces of semen on vagina and anus. Since this would indicate that Dr Stefanoni had mislabelled an oral swab which had traces of Rudy Guede kissing Meredith Kercher as a vaginal swab - the socalled "naughty finger". I have found an Italian report that stops short of saying that as explicitly as Grinder's English report

Since Grinder doesn't seem likely to oblige, then there isn't much point to stick around.

This may come as some surprise to you acbytesla, but I, like most normal people, view apologists for smashing a young woman's face into a closet and then anally raping her as utter social pariahs.

I don't blame you for that. I don't associate with apologists for Rudy either.

 

[acbytesla]

Query seems to want to call people racists, mainly as a cover to distract from some very speculative opinions. He also seems to think that other posters have posted things, then deleted them. No one other than Query seems to know what that is all about. He also seems to want to makes suggestions about other posters here that beg the question.

Maybe he doesn't understand how this works. The only posts that get deleted are the ones you catch in 2 hours IIRC or are deleted by thed mods for breaking the rules. Otherwise they are here forever.

 

[bagels]

Well I very much hope I don't. I really only registered to see if grinder would give me the detail of an early newspaper report he posted and then deleted. Namely that the first reports of the autopsy of Meredith Kercher recorded traces of semen on vagina and anus. Since this would indicate that Dr Stefanoni had mislabelled an oral swab which had traces of Rudy Guede kissing Meredith Kercher as a vaginal swab - the socalled "naughty finger". I have found an Italian report that stops short of saying that as explicitly as Grinder's English report

Since Grinder doesn't seem likely to oblige, then there isn't much point to stick around.

This may come as some surprise to you acbytesla, but I, like most normal people, view apologists for smashing a young woman's face into a closet and then anally raping her as utter social pariahs.

AFAIK (and correct me if I'm wrong Grinder) but my understanding is that Grinder is open to the possibility of a second accomplice who would make a more probable candidate for the unexplained alleged semen stain. So you're accusing Grinder of covering up an article that supports his own theory

 

[bagels]

Vixen gave a little steam for a while. Mach is petering out. Query is new but I don't expect him to last. Figure the thread will be closed in 4 to 6 months.

Vixen should give up on worrying about the bogus court evidence since there is no need to worry about the sham trial anymore, and focus on working out a PGP theory with the most sensible or plausible actions. Maybe the kids pulled off the crime of the century? We wont find out if we keep going on about Koko's olive tossing and Amanda's invisible coke habit.

 

[Planigale]

Serial refers to the podcast series regarding Adnan Syed. Strictly speaking the fact that incoming calls aren't reliable for location was not part of Syed rather it forms part of the basis of a Brady claim post conviction review of Syed on the grounds that the cover sheet containing this information was withheld from the defence and the prosecution expert witness.

I have no doubt your expertise as a salesman is legendary through-out the Greater Seattle area. To the extent this provides you with a deeper engineering knowledge I have no idea.

Friends of Amanda are notorious for providing "expert" opinions in areas which they are unqualified: Plangiale and Chris Halkides (the DNA guy) are some examples.

As I understand 22:13 was a text.
Perhaps we might have more confidence in your expertise if you had independently introduced this into your discussion rather than having brought to your attention by an acknowledged non-expert?




The Sollecito defence disagrees with you [Summary of Sollecito's defence in the Marasca report]

And the Italian Cassation Court endorsed the defence in this instance



I am not competent to discuss telecommunications, but if I am looking for an expert I will take the Sollecito's defence expert if it has been specifically endorsed as reliable by the Court over that of an anonymous person on the internet.

Congratulations. We'll make a skeptic of you yet. Do not believe experts just because they are experts. An expert should be able to reference their opinion. Many miscarriages of justice relate to plausible 'experts', hair analysis, bite marks footprints, fire analysis are all recognised examples. What you need to do is question both those opinions you agree with and those you disagree. In this case one often hears from e.g. Vixen that defence experts are allowed to lie (unreferenced assertion), which then becomes an excuse nit to examine the argument made. Even if it is true that defence witnesses are allowed to lie it does not mean they did lie. It is also irrelevant to Vecci who was a court appointed expert.

The whole basis of an adversarial case is that the prosecution case should be tested. What we see here is serial incompetence, the facts are there, you can see for yourself. You do not have to believe an expert.

FWIW I am not now was I ever a friend of Amanda. Either in the sense of belonging to or supporting the Friends of Amanda group, nor in a personal sense. Indeed I suspect I would not like Knox if I met her. You throw this false assertion about me into the mix because it gives you an excuse to ignore what I say as biased. Remember even biased people can tell the truth. Convicting innocent people does not honour Meredith.

 

[Planigale]

I haven't read Raffaele's appeal, I have only read the Marasca report's summary of his appeal and the part where they stated that they had determined the expert analysis of the Sollecito defence was superior to the prosecution's experts.

I am quite open to the fact that I have misunderstood it. From your perspective as a phone salesman, how should I interpret this line of the Marasca report?

So a good start would be to go and read the original evidence given in court. Much is available in translation. It is not a good basis for an opinion to rely on a translation of a summary of a summary, go to the original document.

 

[Planigale]

Well I very much hope I don't. I really only registered to see if grinder would give me the detail of an early newspaper report he posted and then deleted. Namely that the first reports of the autopsy of Meredith Kercher recorded traces of semen on vagina and anus. Since this would indicate that Dr Stefanoni had mislabelled an oral swab which had traces of Rudy Guede kissing Meredith Kercher as a vaginal swab - the socalled "naughty finger". I have found an Italian report that stops short of saying that as explicitly as Grinder's English report

Since Grinder doesn't seem likely to oblige, then there isn't much point to stick around.

This may come as some surprise to you acbytesla, but I, like most normal people, view apologists for smashing a young woman's face into a closet and then anally raping her as utter social pariahs.

Although you will ignore what I say as a 'Friend of Amanda'. Stefanoni would not be taking the swabs from MK. This would be done by the forensic pathologist. They would then be handed to Stefanoni for analysis. The reason for this is you do not want a (medically) untrained person poking around with swabs and causing anal / vaginal trauma. The swabs would also be potentially examined microscopically for sperm, and chemically with acid phosphatase looking for evidence of semen.

I do not remember a mouth swab from MK, if done this would have been reasonable. There should also have been swabs of her face / neck as there would be a high chance that whoever restrained her would leave DNA.

Rutty, G. N. (2002). "An investigation into the transference and survivability of human DNA following simulated manual strangulation with consideration of the problem of third party contamination." International Journal of Legal Medicine 116(3): 170-173.

 

[query grind]

So a good start would be to go and read the original evidence given in court. Much is available in translation. It is not a good basis for an opinion to rely on a translation of a summary of a summary, go to the original document.

Yes, well:

Had we but world enough, and time,
This coyness, lady, were no crime.
We would sit down and think which way
To walk, and pass our long love's day;
Thou by the Indian Ganges' side
Shouldst rubies find; I by the tide
Of Humber would complain. I would
Love you ten years before the Flood;
And you should, if you please, refuse
Till the conversion of the Jews.
My vegetable love should grow
Vaster than empires, and more slow.
An hundred years should go to praise
Thine eyes, and on thy forehead gaze;
Two hundred to adore each breast,
But thirty thousand to the rest;
An age at least to every part,
And the last age should show your heart.
For, lady, you deserve this state,
Nor would I love at lower rate.

But at my back I always hear
Time's winged chariot hurrying near;
And yonder all before us lie
Deserts of vast eternity.

So I am sure you will forgive me if I take the findings of Marasca court as authoritative on this point until someone produces a citation over and above 'I looked at google earth".

Incidentally why do you keep saying you would dislike Amanda Knox and quite like Dr Stefanoni?
I have no idea what Knox is like but I imagine she has been too battered by events to be particularly objectionable.

I will say she is too snotty to accept a casserole dish as a wedding present from yours truly but.

 

[query grind]

Although you will ignore what I say as a 'Friend of Amanda'. Stefanoni would not be taking the swabs from MK. This would be done by the forensic pathologist.

I don't ignore what you say because you are a 'Friend of Amanda' (and believe me, most Friends of Amanda probably like her as little as you claim to)
I ignore it because I am better informed than you are. It is virtually obligatory to take an oral swab in sexual assault case so as to build up picture of the types of contacts the victim may have had.

Allow me to remind you of what Reperto 12 looked like

You will note that two swabs are presented openly, but the third is concealed inside a wrapper. We don't know what was written on the third swab, we only know what was written on the wrapper.

If there were any traces of the semen that was found on the pillow case positioned under her body in her vagina, then that genetic profile would have to appear in the unfractionated male Y str profile.
The prosecution has been adamant that they did not need to test the semen stain found on the pillow case beneath her body, because, they asserted, it belonged to Giacomo Silenzi.
I expect they are absolutely right.

On the other hand if Guede had been kissing Kercher as he claimed in his Skype conversation, then we might not expect to see his autosomal profile appear in an oral swab, but we would expect to see his Y str profile.

I would also be very surprised if a y profile could not have been obtained from the bloody finger marks on the wall. It is sad that this case is going to down in history as an example of the fallibility of forensics, when it should go down as an example of forensic scientists doing deliberate and grotesque contortions in order to avoid detecting the perpetrators.

 

[query grind]

Maybe that should be the 5th uncanny coincidence for Lone Wolf Guede?

- he positioned the body of Meredith Kercher precisely on top of the semen stain on a pillow left by Giacomo Silenzi.

Thank God Dr Stefanoni and Dr Luca "I'll just take another look at my notes" Lalli were on hand to unravel the Ivorian's diabolical plot.