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Continuation Part 19: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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I think it is hysterical to read people from both sides trying to claim any court having a sensible ruling across the board. Hellmann was the closest IMO but he had his own weirdness such as the calumny verdict and Rudi losing his shoe during the murder.

M&B do clearly find them not guilty but go out of their way to expand on the multiple attacker theory (see Cheli) and do agree with the lower court's assessment of Amanda being there during the murder.

I don't believe anything becomes a judicial fact until ruled on by the ISC else Hellmann and Nencini couldn't have changed Massei's ruling. No ISC ruling (unless I missed it in Chieffi) ruled Amanda was there because of the statement or notes. M&B were not bound to say they agreed with Nencini on this point, but they did.

I still believe the thinking of the Italians is different from most of the west. They do put two and two together and get 5 sometimes, 4 other times and once in a while 3.

How much simpler it would be if they just said guilty or not guilty.
 
Don't forget there is a fourth person in all of this. Kokomani.

However, looks like he's under the oath of omerta.

So what about Kokomani? I never saw his image on the CCTV. While he is a huge question mark I think it's going to be difficult to get anything out of him.
 
People are convicted all the time on less evidence than proof that they were at the scene when the murder occurred and they never reported it and lied about being there. The coroner and the PLE partly believed the murder was related to some sort of sexual activity because there were no signs of forced sex. What proof did they have Rudi killed Meredith? Did they have his print or DNA on the murder knife?



Are you referring to their writing on multiple attackers? They found them not guilty correctly but they seem as wacky as the rest of the judges in Italy.



What did he think of the major revisions of the mid eighties?

Do you have any source for the assertion that any lower court ruling becomes a judicial "fact"? How did Nencini change Massei's motive as it was a "fact"?

What proof is there that Rudy was involved in the murder? I don't claim to have the answer, but there is considerable circumstantial evidence, which on close examination stands up a conclusion of guilty to murder. Would I stake my life on it? No. Beyond a reasonable doubt? Yes.

The fact that people are convicted on less could account for the numerous innocent people behind bars. We live in an imperfect society with imperfect people living under imperfect laws. Are RK/RS innocent beyond a reasonable doubt? Yes. Would I put my life on it? Well I would be tempted if the right offer came along and proof could be established.


"Did they have Rudy's print in the murder knife?"
No that weapon is still at large.


"What did he think of the major revisions of the mid eighties?"
He = Suttner presumable and "major revisions" relates to South Africa, presumably?? Don't know. I graduated in 1981, but I do know he was part of an underground movement against the apartheid government in a very prominent way. I was involved as well but on a more low key menial level working for the opposition party to the Apartheid regime. That was the Progressive Federal Party led by Dr. Frederick Van Zyl Slabbert.

"Are you referring to their writing on multiple attackers? They found them not guilty correctly but they seem as wacky as the rest of the judges in Italy".
The Courts of Appeal in South Africa (and I presume in Italy) have some strange constraints which often result in strange writing. I haven't read the Oscar Appeal Report but will do so when I receive it, however the court of appeal slams the lower court judge, Judge Masipa, and then offers her an olive branch by commending her handling of the case. A case she got hopelessly wrong!! Weird stuff. Additionally the Court of Appeal in the Oscar case was forbidden by law to examine judicial facts. We all know the lower court screwed up the case and in the process introduced some weird "judicial facts" which are untouchable in the Appeal hearings. Italian Law appears to similar but more onerous oddities.

"How did Nencini change Massei's motive as it was a "fact"?"
Motive carries only circumstantial weight. I would think, for Nencini and Messei, motive is an embellishment to the case. If it's there, great but if it isn't it doesn't matter. Nencini could (should?) have left this out without having to alter his verdict. "Judicial facts" don't have specific definition and the fine line between what is fact and what is theory helps to confuse the process.

The Law is an Ass.
 
Section 8 is where Bruno-Marasca trash the DNA findings. For the benefit of the lurkers, here is a portion of that section, so you can see the tone for yourself, and leading into Section 9: Bruno-Marasca's views=final legal facts, as ORDERED by the court.

Also illogical and contradictory is the judge's statement that, attempting to provide a cause for
that disagreement (which was moreover denied in other declarations) doesn’t hesitate to retrieve
the hypothesis of the money and credit card theft which Kercher was said to have attributed to
Knox, despite the fact that, in a definitive finding, Knox, and Sollecito too, would be absolved
because "there is no hard fact" on the crime of thievery in relation to the aforementioned goods
(f.316)
It is also arbitrary in the absence of any accepted confirmation to transfer to the house at via della
Pergola the situations that Knox, in one of her declarations, had described and contextualized in a
different timeframe and circumstance, which was in via Garibaldi n. 130, in Sollecito’s house:
viewing of a movie, light consuming of drugs, sexual intercourse, and nocturnal rest lasting until
the late morning of the 2nd of November, in a period before, during and after the homicide. This
was introduced as a dynamic of the murder, the possible destabilizing effect of drugs.
This also was done in the absence of any verification, and also because – among the multiple
omissions or disputable investigative strategies – the police teams, even after collecting a
cigarette butt from the ashtray in the living room containing biological traces of a mixed genetic
profile (Knox and Sollecito), didn’t carry out any analysis on the nature of the cigarette's
substance because that investigation would have resulted in an impossibility to verify the genetic
profile, making the sample “unusable”. And all of this with the brilliant [sic] result of submitting
to the trial an absolutely irrelevant data, considered that it is certain that Sollecito frequented the
house in via della Pergola, because he was sentimentally bound to the American girl; while in
contrast the verification of the nature of the cigarette sample might have offered investigative
leads of particular interest.
What is underlined above is emblematic of the whole body of the appealed findings related to the
reconstruction of the relevant event, reported in par.10 with the title: conclusive evaluations.
It is undeniably a faulty interpretation attempt of the judge in order to compensate for some
investigative lacks and obvious proof shortfalls with acute speculative activity and suggestive
logical argumentations, being merely assertive and dogmatic.
Now it is unquestionable that the factual reconstruction is an exclusive task of the trial judge and
it is not the responsibility of the Court of Cassation to establish if the proposed assessment is
actually the best possible reconstruction of the facts, nor to approve his justifications, requiring
this court only to address verification if such justification is compatible - according to the basic
jurisprudence formula – “with common sense and with the limits of a plausible appreciation of
opinion” (among others, Section 5, n. 1004 of 30 November 1999, dep. 2000, Moro G, Rv.
215745), and also according to the probative requirements in the light of the text of article 606
lett. e) of the code of criminal procedure; it is also true that the chosen reconstructive version,
even if in compliance with the standards of ordinary logic, has to adhere to the reality of the
body of facts and be presented as the result of a process of critical evaluation of the points of
proof acquired. Therefore the use of logic and intuition cannot compensate for shortfalls in
proofs or investigative inefficiency. In the face of a missing, insufficient or contradictory proof,
the judge must limit himself to accepting that and deliver an acquittal sentence, according to
article 530, chapter 2, of the code of criminal procedure, even if driven by an authentic moral
conviction of the guilt of the accused.
Also, there is no shortage of errors in the motivation text of the examined sentence. Accordingly
the assumption is totally erroneous in f. 321, according to which in the almost imperceptible
grooves of the knife which was considered the weapon of the crime (item 36) DNA samples were
attributable to Sollecito and also Kercher. The assumption is, in fact, in conflict with the lengthy
exposition in the part concerning the aforementioned item (ff. 208 ss), where the outcomes of the
genetic investigations which had attributed trace A to Amanda Knox, trace B to Kercher, a
finally, trace I – the examination of which was unjustifiably passed over in the Conte-Vecchiotti
survey – attributed after a new test to Knox. As will be stated further, given the attribution of the
traces A and I to the current appellant, the reference of the trace B to Kercher cannot have – for
the reasons stated above – any possibility of certainty being a low copy number sample meaning
a scarce-quantity sample which could allow only one amplification (f.124). It doesn’t appear
anywhere that the knife carried biological traces related to the genetic profile of Sollecito.
9. The noted errors in judgment and the logical inconsistencies conflict fundamentally with the
appealed sentence which therefore deserves to be annulled.
The aforementioned invalidating reasons mount up in the absence of a


Section 9 is very different in tone. Gone are the criticisms and admonishments of the Nencini and Massei courts. In come Bruno-Marasca's RULINGS.

9.4 Now, a fact of assured relevance in favor of the current appellants, in the sense of excluding
their material participation to the homicide, even in the hypothesis of their presence in the house
of via della Pergola, lies in the absolute absence of biological traces referable to them (apart from
the hook of which we will discuss later) in the room of the homicide or on the victim’s body,
where in contrast multiple traces attributable to Guede were found.
It is incontrovertibly impossible that that in the crime scene (constituted by a room of little
dimensions: ml 2,91x3,36, as indicated by the blueprint reproduced at f. 76) no traces would be
retrieved referable to the current appellants had they participated in the murder of Kercher.
No trace assignable to them has been, in particular, observed on the sweatshirt worn by the
victim at the moment of the aggression and nor on the underlying shirt, as it should have been in
case of participation in the homicide (instead, on the sleeve of the aforementioned sweater traces
of Guede were retrieved: ff. 179-180).
The aforementioned negative circumstance works as a counterbalance to the data, already
highlighted, on the absolute impracticality of the hypothesis of a posthumous selective cleaning
capable of removing specific biological traces while leaving others.
9.4.1 Given this, we now note, with respect to Amanda Knox, that her presence inside the house,
the location of the murder, is a proven fact in the trial, in accord with her own admissions, also
contained in the memoriale with her signature, in the part where she tells that, as she was in the
kitchen, while the young English woman had retired inside the room of same Ms. Kercher
together with another person for a sexual intercourse, she heard a harrowing scream from her
friend, so piercing and unbearable that she let herself down squatting on the floor, covering her
ears tight with her hands in order not to hear more of it. About this, the judgment of reliability
expressed by the lower [a quo] judge [Nencini, ed.] with reference to this part of the suspect’s
narrative, [and] about the plausible implication from the fact herself was the first person
mentioning for the first time [46] a possible sexual motive for the murder, at the time when the
detectives still did not have the results from the cadaver examination, nor the autopsy report, nor
the witnesses’ information, which was collected only subsequently, about the victim’s terrible
scream and about the time when it was heard (witnesses Nara Capezzali, Antonella Monacchia
and others), is certainly to be subscribed to. We make reference in particular to those
declarations that the current appellant [Knox] produced on 11. 6. 2007 (p.96) inside the State
Police headquarters. On the other hand, in the slanderous declarations against Lumumba, which
earned her a conviction, the status of which is now protected as final judgement [giudicato],
[they] had themselves exactly that premise in the narrative, that is: the presence of the young
American woman inside the house in via della Pergola, a circumstance which nobody at that time
– except obviously the other people present inside the house – could have known (quote p. 96).
According to the slanderous statements of Ms. Knox, she had returned home in the company of
Lumumba, who she had met by chance in Piazza Grimana, and when Ms. Kercher arrived in the
house, Knox’s companion directed sexual attentions toward the young English woman, then he
went together with her in her room, from which the harrowing scream came. So, it was
Lumumba who killed Meredith and she could affirm this since she was on the scene of crime
herself, albeit in another room.
Another element against her is the mixed DNA traces, her and the victim’s one, in the “small
bathroom”, an eloquent proof that anyway she had come into contact with the blood of the latter,
which she tried to wash away from herself (it was, it seems, diluted blood, while the biological
traces belonging to her would be the consequence of epithelial rubbing).
The fact is very suspicious, but it’s not decisive, besides the known considerations about the sure
nature and attribution of the traces in question.
Nonetheless, even if we deem the attribution certain, the trial element would not be unequivocal,
since it may show also a posthumous touching of that blood, during the probable attempt of
removing the most visible traces of what had happened, maybe to help cover up for someone or
to steer away suspicion from herself, but not contributing to full certainty about her direct
involvement in the murderous action. Any further and more pertaining interpretation in fact
would be anyway resisted by the circumstance – this is decisive indeed – that no trace linkable to
her was found on the scene of crime or on the victim’s body, so it follows – if we concede
everything – that her contact with the victim’s blood happened in a subsequent moment and in
another room of the house.
Another element against her is certainly constituted by the false accusations [calunnia] against
Mr. Lumumba, afore-mentioned above.
It is not understandable, in fact, what reason could have driven the young woman to produce such
serious accusations. The theory that she did so in order to escape psychological pressure from
detectives seems extremely fragile, given that the woman [47] could not fail to realize that such
accusations directed against her boss would turn out to be false very soon, given that, as she
knew very well, Mr. Lumumba had no relationship with Ms. Kercher nor with the Via della
Pergola house. Furthermore, the ability to present an ironclad alibi would have allowed
Lumumba to obtain release and subsequently the dropping of charges.
However, the said calunnia is another circumstantial element against the current appellant,
insofar as it can be considered a strategy in order to cover up for Mr. Guede, whom she had an
interest to protect because of fear of retaliatory accusations against her. This is confirmed by the
fact that Mr. Lumumba, like Mr. Guede, is a man of colour, hence the indication of the first one
would be safe in the event that the latter could have been seen by someone while entering or
exiting the apartment.
And moreover, the staging of a theft in Romanelli’s room, which she is accused of, is also a
relevant point within an incriminating picture, considering the elements of strong suspicion
(location of glass shards – apparently resulting from the breaking of a glass window pane caused
by the throwing of a rock from the outside – on top of, but also under clothes and furniture), a
staging, which can be linked to someone who – as an author of the murder and a flatmate
[titolare] with a formal [“qualified”] connection to the dwelling – had an interest to steer
suspicion away from himself/herself, while a third murderer in contrast would be motivated by a
very different urge after the killing, that is to leave the apartment as quickly as possible. But also
this element is substantially ambiguous, especially if we consider the fact that when the postal
police arrived – they arrived in Via della Pergola for another reason: to search for Ms. Romanelli,
the owner of the telephone SIM card found inside one of the phones retrieved in via Sperandio –
the current appellants themselves, Sollecito specifically, were the ones who pointed out the
anomalous situation to the officers, as nothing appeared to be stolen from Ms. Romanelli’s room.
Elements of strong suspicion are also in the inconsistencies and lies which the suspect woman
committed over the statements she released on various occasions, especially in the places where
her narrative was contradicted by the telephone records showing different incoming SMS
messages; by the testimonies of Antonio Curatolo about the presence of [the same] Amanda
Knox in piazza Grimana in the company of Sollecito, and of Mario Quintavalle about her
presence inside the supermarket the morning of the day after the murder, maybe to buy
detergents. Despite this, the features of intrinsic inconsistency and poor reliability of the
witnesses, which were objected to many times during the trial, do not allow to attribute
unconditional trust to their versions, in order to prove with reassuring certainty the failure, and so
the falsehood, of the alibi presented by the suspect woman, who claimed to have been at her
boyfriend’s home since the late afternoon of November 1st until the morning of the following
day. Mr. Curatolo (an enigmatic character: a clochard, drug addicted and dealer) [48] besides the
fact that his declarations were late and the fact that he was not foreign to judiciary showing-off in
judicial cases with a strong media impact, he was also contradicted about his reference to young
people waiting for public buses to leave in the direction of disco clubs in the area, since it was
asserted that the night of the murder the bus service was not operational; and also the reference to
masks and jokes, which he says he witnessed that evening, would lead to believe that it was on
Halloween night, on October 31., and not on Nov. 1. instead. The latter point apparently balances
– still within a context of uncertainty and ambiguousness – the witness’ reference to (regarding
the context where he reportedly noticed the two suspects together) the day before the one when
he noticed (at an afternoon hour) an unusual movement of Police and Carabinieri, and in
particular people wearing white suites and head covers (as if they were extra-terrestrials) entering
the house in Via della Pergola (obviously on November 2., after the discovery of the body).


FINAL. SETTLED. These words will be produced in any claim for compensation as being the facts of the matter.

Well done. You've omitted 9.1, 9.2, and 9.3. You should get points for creativity in your argument!

Hoots!
 
So what about Kokomani? I never saw his image on the CCTV. While he is a huge question mark I think it's going to be difficult to get anything out of him.

Think about it. Imagine if Rudy brought out his Best Truth, like Amanda and Raff, painting himself as poor misunderstood victim, with everybody out to get him, and painting himself, as he did in previous purple prose scribblings as the knight in shining armour who tried to comfort and save the "marvellous girl" Mez.

Suppose he roughly gives a broadly accurate recollection of the event with himself removed from it as a perp - as did Amanda and Raff - and manage to confirm Kokomani's alibi that he did indeed chance upon the three on Halloween crouched behind the wheelie bins lying in wait for their "friend", smashed out of their minds on drugs and Amanda brandishing a kitchen knife?

Kokomani might be motivated to come out of hiding to defend himself. He could still have pics on his mobile phone. Etcetera., etcetera.
 
I think it is hysterical to read people from both sides trying to claim any court having a sensible ruling across the board. Hellmann was the closest IMO but he had his own weirdness such as the calumny verdict and Rudi losing his shoe during the murder.
Agreed. Nothing seems straight forward in Italian justice.
M&B do clearly find them not guilty but go out of their way to expand on the multiple attacker theory (see Cheli) and do agree with the lower court's assessment of Amanda being there during the murder.
I don't read it that way. I'm 100 percent convinced that they are only referencing the previous courts and not taking a stand either way on that point. They are referencing it to say that it is not enough to say they were there but it must be proven they were involved. Which was not done.
II don't believe anything becomes a judicial fact until ruled on by the ISC else Hellmann and Nencini couldn't have changed Massei's ruling. No ISC ruling (unless I missed it in Chieffi) ruled Amanda was there because of the statement or notes. M&B were not bound to say they agreed with Nencini on this point, but they did.
Wow! I agree with this 100 percent. Is that the 7th sign?
II still believe the thinking of the Italians is different from most of the west. They do put two and two together and get 5 sometimes, 4 other times and once in a while 3.

How much simpler it would be if they just said guilty or not guilty.
Amen
 
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Well done. You've omitted 9.1, 9.2, and 9.3. You should get points for creativity in your argument!

Hoots!

Sure, here's Sections 9.1, 9.2 and 9.3. (Warning: your eyelids might start feeling very heavy.)

9.1 The intrinsically contradictory quality of the body of proof, the objective uncertainty of which
is emphasized by the highlighted irregular progression of the proceeding, doesn’t allow us to
consider it as having passed the standard of no reasonable doubt, the consecration of which is a
milestone in juridical civilization which has to be protected for always as an expression of
fundamental constitutional values clustered around the central role of the person in the legal
system, whose protection is effected at trial by the principle of presumption of innocence until
there is definitive verification, according to article 27, chapter 2, of the Constitution.
9.2. The terms of objective contradictions in the proof here can be illustrated for each appellant,
in a synoptic examination of the elements favorable to the hypothesis of guilt and the elements to
the contrary in the text of the appeal and the defense declarations.
9.3. It is useful to the side by side examination of these profiles to consider that, given the
committing of the homicide in via della Pergola, the supposed presence in the house of the
current appellants cannot, in itself be considered as a demonstrative element of guilt. In the
evaluative approach to the problematic compendium of proof offered by the appellate judge, we
cannot ignore the juridical categories of “non-punishable connivance” and “participation of
persons in the crime committed by others” and the distinction between them as accepted by
indisputables decision of the Court of Cassation.
In this regard, it is well understood that the distinction resides "in the fact that the first postulates
that the agent maintain a merely passive behavior, of no contribution to the effecting of the
crime, while the second requires a positive participatory contribution - moral or material – to the
other’s criminal conduct in ways that aid or strengthen the criminal purpose of the appellant"
(Section 4, n. 1055 of 12/12/2013, dep. 2014, Benocci, Rv. 258186; Section 6, n. 44633 of
31/102013, Dioum, Rv. 257810; Section 5, n. 2895 of 22/03/2013, dep. 2014, Grosu, Rv.
258953). Equally certain is the effect of this specific distinction in the subjectivity consideration,
since in the actual participation by persons in the crime the subjective element can be identified
in the conscious representations and will of the participant in cooperating with other subjects in
the common realization of the criminal conduct (Section 1, n 40248 of 26/09/2012, Mazzotta,
Rv. 254735).
 
What proof is there that Rudy was involved in the murder? I don't claim to have the answer, but there is considerable circumstantial evidence, which on close examination stands up a conclusion of guilty to murder. Would I stake my life on it? No. Beyond a reasonable doubt? Yes.

Well proof one was at the scene at the time of the murder and never called the police or informed them of what happened is huge circumstantial evidence of involvement in the murder. You said it wasn't.

"Did they have Rudy's print in the murder knife?"

No that weapon is still at large.

So basically they know he was there at the time.


"What did he think of the major revisions of the mid eighties?"
He = Suttner presumable and "major revisions" relates to South Africa, presumably?? Don't know.

Not interested in S.A. I would have thought with your acclaimed expertise in Italian law you would have been aware of the significant changes made there to the legal system in the mid eighties.

"Are you referring to their writing on multiple attackers? They found them not guilty correctly but they seem as wacky as the rest of the judges in Italy".

The Courts of Appeal in South Africa (and I presume in Italy) have some strange constraints which often result in strange writing.

So you don't know Italian law.


"How did Nencini change Massei's motive as it was a "fact"?"


Motive carries only circumstantial weight. I would think, for Nencini and Messei, motive is an embellishment to the case. If it's there, great but if it isn't it doesn't matter. Nencini could (should?) have left this out without having to alter his verdict. "Judicial facts" don't have specific definition and the fine line between what is fact and what is theory helps to confuse the process.

The Law is an Ass.

You should reread the reports on motive. In fact, I believe the changing motive was a focus for M&B.

You do realize that the entire case is based on circumstantial evidence. There was no direct evidence on the murder. Some think testimony on circumstantial evidence is direct evidence but it is really only direct testimony on circumstantial evidence.

Btw, I think motive is not necessary but shockingly the Italians disagree.
 
Eh, 'eck, lad, it does not say anything of the sort. Yes, in their report, Bruno-Marasca implicitly state they are going to provide an MR explaining their verdict. Before they can do this they need to explain what the issues are. In legal language, an "issue" has specific legal meaning and does not mean the artificial construct of the judicial facts and actual-facts ; they are the preordained, legal issues, as agreed between all of the parties as to what the appeal is predicated on.

Having set out the issues - limited to the Nencini issues, the other issues being res judicata (legally settled and estoppelled from being a legal issue again).

Judges are bullies. They give ORDERS and DIRECTIONS. They do not use terms like, 'if' and 'but'. In Section 9, they are not 'discussing' the issues as though it were a debate; they are TELLING you:

1. Amanda was at the murder scene, and ipso facto on the balance of probabilities, so was Raff.

2. Amanda washed Mez' life blood from her person.

3. Amanda covered up for Rudy.

4. The pair lied and lied and lied again.

No "if's", no "but's", no "even if's". These guys are paid very handsomely to state the legal facts of the matter as the final word.

In their "THEREFORE" section Bruno-Marasca state they have told us what they were going to tell us and that we have now been told.

I have posted this before but I thought I would give Vixen another reminder of how hypocritical it is for her and other PGP to accuse Amanda and Raffaele of lying :-

* The prosecution told numerous lies which can be found on http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/amanda-knox-media-lies/ and http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/myths.html. The prosecution released false information to the media about the purchase of bleach receipts, the washing machine running, Amanda showering in a bloody bathroom, a missing Harry Potter book . The prosecution lied in court. Stefanoni lied about the amount of picograms on Raffaele's knife, Comodi lied in court about the time Amanda called her mother, Stefanoni lied about changing gloves and prosecutor Crini lied saying that Raffaele's knife matched the imprint on Meredith's bed. The haters slavishly defenend corrupt prosecutors who told numerous lies.

* The haters have spread lies about Amanda and Raffaele's supporters. Below is an extract from the chapter "The Truth About the Hate Campaign Against Amanda Knox" Finding Justice in Perugia about the lies the haters have spread about Candace Dempsey :-

Ganong claims that Candace lied about her age on her Linked In account when in fact it was a typo. Candace's age was listed as 20 years younger than it actually was. Who would attempt to shave 20 years off their age? Ganong knows it was a typo but the truth is of little importance. Ganong‘s friend Andrea Vogt asked Candace about the Linked In error while they were both covering the case in Italy. There is no doubt that Vogt relayed the information about the typo back to Ganong.

Ganong often repeats her claim that Candace lied about working at the Spokesman-Review early in her career; when in fact Candace was a summer intern, working all the beats, including courts and police. The lie claim began when Monica Guzman of the Seattle PI interviewed Candace about her book deal in 2008. Guzman asked Candace where she got her training and she said, "At the Spokesman-Review." End of story. Peggy has been calling her a liar ever since. This despite the fact that the Spokesman-Review itself interviewed Candace for her book a year later and said she was a summer intern there.

* Books, documentaries and films about the case are often riddled with falsehoods. The following are examples :-

John Kercher's book Meredith. The falsehoods are detailed on http://groundreport.com/amanda-knox...arable-damage-caused-by-wrongful-convictions/ http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/amanda-knox-media-lies/ http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1870&sid=82fc62b3185cbd71f41e0c2cd6559958

The lifetime move the falsehoods are detailed in chapter 2 of finding justice in Perugia.

Barbara Nadeu's book Angel Face. As with John Kercher's book the falsehoods are detailed on http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/amanda-knox-media-lies/ and the chapter Injustice in Perugia on the media.

A documentary on British Television is Amanda Knox guilty the rebuttal can be found by searching "is Amanda Knox guilty youtube rebuttal"

John Follain's book which are detailed

The haters have never complained about the falsehoods in the items listed above. In fact, John Kercher's book Meredith received glowing 5 star reviews on Amazon.

* The haters spread lies in the comments sections of articles about the case and Amazon reviews.

Heiress Amazon review WTBH - "For starters was found cleaning the place with bleach when the police arrived". Truth: Amanda was not caught cleaning when the police arrived.

Bejamin Fletcher "BRFC are back" Amazon review WTBH - "They've found Meredith's blood on a knife in his apartment". Truth: There was no blood on Meredith's knife.

Christina comments page 7 Amazon review WTBH - "whose is the female fooprint who applied female sized bruises on MK's neck in strangulation" Truth: There were no female footprints in Meredith's room or female thumbprints on Meredith's neck.

JF Rodrigue Amazon review WTBH - " She was doing cartwheels in the police station." Truth: It has been proved Amanda did not do cartwheels.

Wendy Murphy in her blog - "pro Amanda forces forget to note the knife was found hidden in a shoebox far back inside a coset at Sollecitito's apartment and that the knife had been scrubbed with bleach." Truth:The knife was found in Raffaele's kitchen drawer and the knife had not been cleaned with bleach.

* The haters have set up a fake themurderofmeredithkercher.com which is full of falsehoods. These falsehoods are detailed here http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/anti-amanda-knox-deceptive-wiki/ and here http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/the-interrogation/. The haters have lied saying their wiki is based on court documents when in fact their website contains claims which do not appear in court documents. For instance the website claims one of Meredith's friends was so concerned aboout Amanda's behaviour she went to the police. This never happened and does not appear in court documents. The wiki lies about the contents of court documents. The wiki claims the knife tested for Meredith's biological material when in fact C&V wrote in their report the knife tested negative for the human species.

* The haters have on TJMK have lied about Amanda's father saying he used to beat Amanda and her mother. No evidence has emerged Kurt Knox beat Amanda or her mother.

* TJMK has often used the claims of people who lied about their credentials. For instance, TJMK promoted Ellie Ewing a woman who created a blog "lies my mother told me" where she represented herself as a psychologists with many years of experience when dicussing the murder of Meredith Kercher. The reaility was Ellie Ewing had no experience or qualifications as a psychologist.

* There were instances of witnesses lying in this case. Hekuran Kokomani claimed he saw Amanda, Raffaele and Rudy together on the night of the murder. Kokomani was proved to have lied because he said Amanda had gaps in her teeth and an Italian uncle. Fabio Gioffredi said he saw Amanda, Raffaele, Meredith and Rudy on the October 30th 2007 between 4.30 and 5.30 pm. Raffaele's computer shows itense activity from 5.30 pm to 6.30 pm which proved Fabio had lied. The haters have never criticsed these witnesses for lying. The shop owner initially said he did not see Amanda in his shop the morning after the murder and then changed his story a year later to say he had seen Amanda in his shop. The fact the shop owner changed his story proved he has lied at least once. The haters have defended the shop owner.

* Rudy Guede lied about having a date with Meredith and someone else attacked Meredith. The haters have never attacked Rudy for lying. In fact, many haters support and defend Rudy.

* The Chiefi report written to annull the Hellman aquittal and the Nenci motivation report were full of falsehoods. The falsehoods can be found by searching "Injustice anywhere forum Nenci stupid errors" and "Injustice Anywhere forum Chieffi report errors". The haters never complained about these the falsehoods in these reports.

The haters accuse Amanda and Raffaele of lying but lie themselves and have condoned and ignored the lies of others. The mind boggles at this hypocrisy.
 
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Think about it. Imagine if Rudy brought out his Best Truth, like Amanda and Raff, painting himself as poor misunderstood victim, with everybody out to get him, and painting himself, as he did in previous purple prose scribblings as the knight in shining armour who tried to comfort and save the "marvellous girl" Mez.

Suppose he roughly gives a broadly accurate recollection of the event with himself removed from it as a perp - as did Amanda and Raff - and manage to confirm Kokomani's alibi that he did indeed chance upon the three on Halloween crouched behind the wheelie bins lying in wait for their "friend", smashed out of their minds on drugs and Amanda brandishing a kitchen knife?

Kokomani might be motivated to come out of hiding to defend himself. He could still have pics on his mobile phone. Etcetera., etcetera.

There are lots of problems with that story.

1. Kokomani was NOT believable. He said he first met Amanda with her uncle before Amanda ever set foot in Italy and his description of Amanda with the bad teeth doesn't mesh with the facts.
2.Rudy's shoeprints are clearly found in Meredith's blood and no one else.
3.Only his DNA is found inside Meredith.
4. Rudy alone is the one caught in the nursery with the laptop and cell phone from another burglary only days before the murder.

Sorry, the evidence does not support him being the innocent patsy.
 
Sure, here's Sections 9.1, 9.2 and 9.3. (Warning: your eyelids might start feeling very heavy.)

9.1 The intrinsically contradictory quality of the body of proof, the objective uncertainty of which
is emphasized by the highlighted irregular progression of the proceeding, doesn’t allow us to
consider it as having passed the standard of no reasonable doubt, the consecration of which is a
milestone in juridical civilization which has to be protected for always as an expression of
fundamental constitutional values clustered around the central role of the person in the legal
system, whose protection is effected at trial by the principle of presumption of innocence until
there is definitive verification, according to article 27, chapter 2, of the Constitution.
9.2. The terms of objective contradictions in the proof here can be illustrated for each appellant,
in a synoptic examination of the elements favorable to the hypothesis of guilt and the elements to
the contrary in the text of the appeal and the defense declarations.
9.3. It is useful to the side by side examination of these profiles to consider that, given the
committing of the homicide in via della Pergola, the supposed presence in the house of the
current appellants cannot, in itself be considered as a demonstrative element of guilt. In the
evaluative approach to the problematic compendium of proof offered by the appellate judge, we
cannot ignore the juridical categories of “non-punishable connivance” and “participation of
persons in the crime committed by others” and the distinction between them as accepted by
indisputables decision of the Court of Cassation.
In this regard, it is well understood that the distinction resides "in the fact that the first postulates
that the agent maintain a merely passive behavior, of no contribution to the effecting of the
crime, while the second requires a positive participatory contribution - moral or material – to the
other’s criminal conduct in ways that aid or strengthen the criminal purpose of the appellant"
(Section 4, n. 1055 of 12/12/2013, dep. 2014, Benocci, Rv. 258186; Section 6, n. 44633 of
31/102013, Dioum, Rv. 257810; Section 5, n. 2895 of 22/03/2013, dep. 2014, Grosu, Rv.
258953). Equally certain is the effect of this specific distinction in the subjectivity consideration,
since in the actual participation by persons in the crime the subjective element can be identified
in the conscious representations and will of the participant in cooperating with other subjects in
the common realization of the criminal conduct (Section 1, n 40248 of 26/09/2012, Mazzotta,
Rv. 254735).

Thanks for this - however, your crack that this would be boring reveals a lot about the way you wish to spin this. Let's quote from it.....

9.3. It is useful to the side by side examination of these profiles to consider that, given the
committing of the homicide in via della Pergola, the supposed presence in the house of the current appellants cannot, in itself be considered as a demonstrative element of guilt. In the
evaluative approach to the problematic compendium of proof offered by the appellate judge, we
cannot ignore the juridical categories of “non-punishable connivance” and “participation of
persons in the crime committed by others” and the distinction between them as accepted by
indisputables decision of the Court of Cassation.​
Did you read that? The "supposed presence"? Which part of that is hard to understand - that what is to come in the rest of Section 9 is, in fact, the synoptic recreation from at least two sources - including from previous rulings (not just Nencini's). A synoptic recreation that is not meant to establish factuality......

.... but to demonstrate how contradictory and ludicrous the case always had been; based on a "supposed presence", one that even if true still means they should have been acquitted by Nencini.
 
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Empiricism and legalese are two completely different concepts and ne'er the twain shall meet.

Grade 6 chemistry lesson to show water boils at 100 degrees fahrenheit 32 degrees centigrade. How to write it up.

Experiment to show water boils at 100 degrees fahrenheit 32 degrees centigrade. The null hypothesis is that water does not boil at 100 degrees F 32 degrees C.

Apparatus One bunsen burner, one glass beaker, 500mls of a colourless, odourless and tasteless liquid that is anhydrous to litmus paper, therefore we determine it is water, H2O, One mercury thermometer. One stopwatch.

Method Place beaker of H2O over ignited bunsen burner. Set stopwatch. When water boils note time and temperature.

Results Water boiled after eight minutes at 100 degrees F and 32 degrees C.

Conclusion In this experiment the water boiled at this temperature. We would need to replicate the experiment many times before we can reject the null hypothesis.
~ The Empirical Method, aka the scientific method.


Ladies and gentlemen: proof right here that Vixen's "opinions" on science matters can safely be written off as ignorant, ill-informed and bombastic.

(Hint to Vixen, who probably still hasn't figured it out: water does not boil at 100F, 32C. Furthermore, 100F does not even equal 32C. And water does not boil at either temperature. Look it up in a proper science source perhaps)

Oh and the term "anhydrous" was hideously (and hilariously, in the context) wrongly employed as well.

(Another hint to Vixen: "anhydrous" means "containing no water". It's in fact the very last thing possible that water could be described as. And it's utterly unrelated to a substance's acidity/alkalinity. Advice: don't use what you presumably consider to be sophisticated scientific terms if you don't have the first clue about what they actually mean. It exposes you as being scientifically illiterate and readily willing to play fast and loose with terminology. And that seriously damages credibility in all areas of argument. Just sayin'......)
 
Oh gosh, we are being led into Bill Clinton land.


No. We are not.

Misremembering = genuinely having faults in recall with no underlying intent to deceive.

Lying = deliberately and intentionally deceiving by giving a version of events that you know to be false.

Can the difference between the two be seen and understood now?
 
By your logic, it's OK to kill if you are a resident, even if your blood is found mixed in with theirs, showing you bled the same time as the victim was being murdered.

The trouble is that you want an answer with no nuance when clearly there is nuance here.
 
No. We are not.

Misremembering = genuinely having faults in recall with no underlying intent to deceive.

Lying = deliberately and intentionally deceiving by giving a version of events that you know to be false.

Can the difference between the two be seen and understood now?

Thank you LJ. Clearly Vixen didn't know there is a difference.
 
Ladies and gentlemen: proof right here that Vixen's "opinions" on science matters can safely be written off as ignorant, ill-informed and bombastic.

(Hint to Vixen, who probably still hasn't figured it out: water does not boil at 100F, 32C. Furthermore, 100F does not even equal 32C. And water does not boil at either temperature. Look it up in a proper science source perhaps)

Oh and the term "anhydrous" was hideously (and hilariously, in the context) wrongly employed as well.

(Another hint to Vixen: "anhydrous" means "containing no water". It's in fact the very last thing possible that water could be described as. And it's utterly unrelated to a substance's acidity/alkalinity. Advice: don't use what you presumably consider to be sophisticated scientific terms if you don't have the first clue about what they actually mean. It exposes you as being scientifically illiterate and readily willing to play fast and loose with terminology. And that seriously damages credibility in all areas of argument. Just sayin'......)

LondonJohn said:
No. We are not.

Misremembering = genuinely having faults in recall with no underlying intent to deceive.

Lying = deliberately and intentionally deceiving by giving a version of events that you know to be false.

Can the difference between the two be seen and understood now?

So, when Vixen posted the wrong info about the boiling and freezing points of water, was she lying or merely mistaken?
 
Empiricism and legalese are two completely different concepts and ne'er the twain shall meet.

Grade 6 chemistry lesson to show water boils at 100 degrees fahrenheit 32 degrees centigrade. How to write it up.

Experiment to show water boils at 100 degrees fahrenheit 32 degrees centigrade. The null hypothesis is that water does not boil at 100 degrees F 32 degrees C.

Apparatus One bunsen burner, one glass beaker, 500mls of a colourless, odourless and tasteless liquid that is anhydrous to litmus paper, therefore we determine it is water, H2O, One mercury thermometer. One stopwatch.

Method Place beaker of H2O over ignited bunsen burner. Set stopwatch. When water boils note time and temperature.

Results Water boiled after eight minutes at 100 degrees F and 32 degrees C.

Conclusion In this experiment the water boiled at this temperature. We would need to replicate the experiment many times before we can reject the null hypothesis.
~ The Empirical Method, aka the scientific method.
....

Heck, it doesn't even have to be logical.

The posts by this poster don't need to be logical or based on any facts. The above post confirms this in what may be the most hilarious "chemistry" demonstration ever described.

The poster describes using "anhydrous" water that boils (under 1 atmosphere of pressure, presumably) at 100 F (= about 38 C) to demonstrate his or her total ignorance of some basic scientific information.

This is an example of a poster repeating his or her misunderstood "factoids" of science, law, and the details of this particular case. The case details are as badly mangled by the poster as the physical chemistry, terminology, units and quantification in the post.


Definition of anhydrous

: free from water and especially water of crystallization
Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anhydrous
 
I don't read it that way. I'm 100 percent convinced that they are only referencing the previous courts and not taking a stand either way on that point.

Here's what they wrote:

No trace belonging to them was found in particular on the sweater that the victim
was wearing at the time she was attacked nor on her shirt underneath, which would
have been the case if they had participated in the murder (instead, traces of Guede
were found on a sleeve of the aforementioned sweater: ff, 179-180).
This aforementioned negative circumstance accords with the fact, already
highlighted, of the absolute impracticability of the posthumous clean-up hypothesis,
removing some biological traces while leaving others.
9.4.1. With this premise, with regards to Amanda Knox’s position, it is now
observed that her presence in the house, the scene of the murder, is an acclaimed
fact of the trial, based on her own admissions, also contained in her signed memorial,
in the part where she explains how, when she was in the kitchen, after the young
Englishwoman and another person went into Kercher’s room to have sex, she heard
her friend’s harrowing scream, to the lacerating and unbearable point that she slid
down, squatting on the floor, holding her hands firmly on her ears, so as to hear no
more of it. On this point, the reliability of the opinion of the judge a quo [of the trial
from which this appeal is being heard] is certainly acceptable concerning this part of
the accused’s account, based on the plausible consideration that it was she who first
mentioned a possible sexual motive for the murder and spoke about the victim’s
harrowing scream, when the investigators still did not have the results of an
examination of the body or of the post-mortem, nor witness information taken later
regarding the victim’s scream and the time it was heard (statements from Capezzali
Nara, Monacchia Antonella and others).

​

They certainly didn't have to write this section or they could have left it at " it is now
observed that her presence in the house, the scene of the murder, is an acclaimed
fact of the trial,"
but they didn't. Why did they write the last section? I think the only way to read that section and not think they are agreeing with the lower court on her presence is a form of conformation bias or having a vested interest.

Here is what Cheli wrote:

Hence it isn’t particularly surprising that Marasca agrees with Guede’s ruling about the presence of multiple attackers and the burglary being staged: ruling otherwise would have caused a major “conflitto in giudicato”, and probably that was also one of the causes of the annulment of the first acquittal.

There is however a difference: while Marasca writes very few words, if any, in upholding the concept of a staged burglary, so much so that one derives it was deemed staged more from the verdict than from the ruling, he expands quite a bit on the reasons for supporting the multiple attackers theory.

Some of those reasons are the usual ones and have been debated for years, and I will not discuss them further now (lack of defensive wounds, just to quote one), but while this could just be a mechanical rehashing of corny arguments, there is also something new that makes me think the judges of the panel, or at least a majority of them, really believed in what they were writing.

Specifically they really believed that Meredith Kercher’s killer was much more “criminally skilled” than petty thief Rudy Guede and, all the more so, than two nerdy students.​
 
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