Religious advertising - is it deceptive?

[marplots]

OK... I will give you just one... and let's see if you then can comprehend what the English definition of deception is and accordingly pick out the other two if not the fourth one too... if you still cannot do so then I will list the rest.

Here is one deceptive and misleading lie:

1. In the seconds 0:10 to 0:20 it is claiming that scientology is about searching and finding the truths while handing someone the hoax fake meter device that the CS uses to deceive people with some bogus readings and thus making it appear that it is all scientific.

"We live in an age of searching....blah, blah... to find the truth." That's the audio during that introduces the section where they show the meter. It hasn't even mentioned Scientology, nor made any claim other than "searching." It does not say that Scientology is about searching. It then asks us to "imagine an age" while showing the meter.

I think your bias and background knowledge about Scientology is adding things to the commercial that aren't really there. There is no claim about Scientology being about searching and finding the truth.

Here is the complete transcript of the audio:
"We live, in an age of searching; to find solutions; to find ourselves; to find - the truth. Now imagine an age in which the predictability of science and the wisdom of religion combine. Welcome to the age of answers."

Generic dreck designed to be non-controversial and largely meaningless? Yes. Deception? No.

 

[JayUtah]

OK... I will give you just one... and let's see if you then can comprehend what the English definition of deception is

Do the people we assign on our behalf to rule on deception in advertising use "the English definition," or do they use a different one? One perhaps that they have carefully worked out over time to be fair across a broad range of interests?

 

[Leumas]

Do the people we assign on our behalf to rule on deception in advertising use "the English definition," or do they use a different one? One perhaps that they have carefully worked out over time to be fair across a broad range of interests?

Lawyers wrangling and deceiving themselves as well as others during the routine execution of their profession of deception and lies does not render a deception not a deception just as it does not render a killer not a murderer because some lawyer managed to GAME THE LAWS.

“For there is but one essential justice which cements society, and one law which establishes this justice. This law is right reason, which is the true rule of all commandments and prohibitions. Whoever neglects this law, whether written or unwritten, is necessarily unjust and wicked.”

― Marcus Tullius Cicero​

 

[dejudge]

I agree with god being a fictional character. However I was always of the opinion that this was not a prayer FROM the lord but by believers TO the lord. Pointless either way round but you seem to be arguing a position that isn't.

If God is a fictional being then the Lord's prayer is deception.

The Lord is of the same substance as God in the NT.

The Lord and God are ONE.

The very claim that the LORD Prayed is deception.

No such prayer have ever been said by the LORD.


Matthew 6

7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9 “This, then, is how you should pray:


“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,[a]
but deliver us from the evil one.’

14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

John10:30----I and my Father are one.[/hilite The Lord's prayer is open deception--there is zero evidence of the Lord and "our" father in heaven".

 

[Leumas]

...It hasn't even mentioned Scientology...

So it was not an advert for Scientology by the Church of Scientology paid for by them????

If someone sees that commercial and then does not realize that it is an advertisement for and by the CS to promote the CS then THAT IN ITSELF is a deception.

Or an abject failure in intelligence... which I gather is not something the CS organizers are often attributed with.

, nor made any claim other than "searching."

No... it made a very blatant claim that it also FOUND the answers and that those answers are scientific.

To add to the deception they show very deceitful images of what may fool someone into thinking that their bogus fake SCIENTIFIC LOOKING INSTRUMENTATION is what has helped arrive at the "age of answers" which they also claim to be based upon "scientific predictability and religious wisdom".

The facts are, they use neither scientific anything nor wisdom of any kind except those exploited by charlatans and mountebanks in their deceptive practices just like any quackery ever invented by mankind.

So for them to claim that they have the answers derived from bogus instrumentation to give the appearance of pseudo-scientific quackery is a major deception.

Here is the complete transcript of the audio:
"We live, in an age of searching; to find solutions; to find ourselves; to find - the truth. Now imagine an age in which the predictability of science and the wisdom of religion combine. Welcome to the age of answers."

What do you think "welcome to the age of answers" means?

It does not say that Scientology is about searching.

Seriously???

It then asks us to "imagine an age" while showing the meter.

Which is meant to deceive the audience that their bogus fake contraption will be the instrument of that imagined age and thus they no longer need to imagine since there it is right here and now and all you have to do is join them to start realizing all the answers.

What do you think this means

welcome to the age of answers​

Do you think it means that those answers are at Oxford University or the Vatican???

I think your bias and background knowledge about Scientology

Ah... so now a deception is not one if it manages to deceive!!!

And if one is not deceived and calls it a deception then it must be his bias!!!

is adding things to the commercial that aren't really there.

Did I add the snazzy looking meter and DNA molecule and Affinity-Communication-Reality hologram???

Did I add this

...Welcome to the age of answers

What do you think the above means after having said

We live, in an age of searching; to find solutions; to find ourselves; to find - the truth.​

And then it enjoins the audience to

Now imagine an age in which the predictability of science and the wisdom of religion combine.​

While showing them pseudo-scientific claptrap images one of which is an ACTUAL REAL LIFE OBJECT here and now and not in the imagination or a hologram. And it looks cool and scientific and is one of the MAJOR TOOLS of the CS used all the time and in their sessions to make bogus palmistry-like readings and the meter itself is a bogus fakery.

And then finally it says

Welcome to the age of answers.​

What do you think this welcome implies??? That these answers are found in the Roman Catholic Church or at NASA??? Or are they welcoming people to the age of answers they have nothing to do with but just felt that they as the CS need to spend millions on a commercial to welcome people to answers they have not yet found and played no role in finding any and will have no contribution in finding any despite their snazzy scientifically predictive instruments and religious wisdoms????

Does it not imply that the answers are already here and if you join the CS which has used the previously paraded scientifically looking stuff to combine the wisdom of religion and the predictability of science to find those answers which one is looking for and was imagining but no longer needs to imagine because all he has to do is join them and be welcomed to the answers???

There is no claim about Scientology being about searching and finding the truth.

Seriously!!!

Generic dreck designed to be non-controversial and largely meaningless?

That in itself is a deception!!!

Here is the complete transcript of the audio:
"We live, in an age of searching; to find solutions; to find ourselves; to find - the truth. Now imagine an age in which the predictability of science and the wisdom of religion combine. Welcome to the age of answers."

 

[JayUtah]

Lawyers wrangling and deceiving themselves as well as others during the routine execution of their profession of deception and lies does not render a deception not a deception just as it does not render a killer not a murderer because some lawyer managed to GAME THE LAWS.

Asked and answered. The question is about advertising. The question is about deception in advertising. There exists a standard for determining whether advertising is deceptive. I'm using that standard, which everyone else so affected uses. Your changing the goalposts to be your personal standard simply proves your bias.

 

[marplots]

That's a pretty good catch phrase for the 21st century: "The Age of Answers."

But, not to put to fine a point on it, the claim is that the ad was deceptive, yet you weren't deceived. Seems like a bit of a miscall there. If someone isn't deceived, most likely due to their deep perspicacity, then the claim ought to be changed to "attempted to deceive."

 

[Leumas]

Asked and answered. The question is about advertising. The question is about deception in advertising. There exists a standard for determining whether advertising is deceptive. I'm using that standard, which everyone else so affected uses. Your changing the goalposts to be your personal standard simply proves your bias.

Every single time you have attributed an illogical fallacy to a post you have applied it illogically and incorrectly.

So there you have it... asked and answered!!!

By the way... the title of this thread is

Religious advertising - is it deceptive?​

Not

Religious advertising - is it deceptive by the wrangling standards of lawyering applied and squabbled over in courts by lawyers in the employment of advertising agencies and corporations and conglomerates?​

So the moving of the goal posts is in fact your own.

 

[marplots]

By the way... the title of this thread is

Religious advertising - is it deceptive?​

I'd have to say "No." Because it didn't fool me.

 

[Leumas]

That's a pretty good catch phrase for the 21st century: "The Age of Answers."

Yes... it is the motto of the CS see here.

I did a search for this "21st century catch phrase" you are claiming and all I found was links after links to the CS.

But, not to put to fine a point on it, the claim is that the ad was deceptive, yet you weren't deceived. Seems like a bit of a miscall there. If someone isn't deceived, most likely due to their deep perspicacity, then the claim ought to be changed to "attempted to deceive."

Seriously????

A deception is only a deception if it succeeds in deceiving???

If someone lies to you and you do not believe them was what they said a lie???

Are you going to argue that because you did not believe it that the English language should be amended and that a failed lie is not really a lie but must be renamed "attempted lie"???

I suggest that you start your own language and logic principles.... but in the English language and according to rationality and reason and logic if it has deceived even ONE person into joining the CS then it has been an effective deception.

Has it deceived NO ONE AT ALL????

But even if it has not deceived even a single person then it is still a deception ... a failed and pathetic deception... but still a deception.

But I suggest you read the comments below the video in the Youtube site.... I think you might find that it has deceived a few!!!

• Wow! Yes, I find out my answers in Scientology. Its really help me in my usual life.
  
• What a wonderfull and insightfull video! Wouldn't it be awesome if everyone followed this mordern religion.
  
• It seems like a nice religion c: But my religion is Buddhism

Also I suggest you click on this link to see the extent of the deception which by the way is also the site you will go to if you press the link at the top right hand side of the video while it is playing.

I thank you for showing us the extent of the deception and chicanery of the Church Of Scientology.

 

[Leumas]

I'd have to say "No." Because it didn't fool me.

I think you will find that an application of the syntax and semantics of the English language and the principles of logic would indicate that your above statement implies that you have been thoroughly deceived and that is why you do not realize that you have been deceived.

"It is easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled" — Mark Twain​

 

[marplots]

Can we do "lie by omission" next?

Seems to me, if an ad doesn't tell you everything there is to tell, and I mean every damn thing, we could make that charge too.

That ad didn't make a single claim, much less a false claim.

"Imagine a forum of skeptics where the actual material being presented is analyzed, without bringing a bunch of external bias into the mix. An age of reason." - See? No claim. No lie possible.

 

[Leumas]

...
That ad didn't make a single claim, much less a false claim.

I am sure you have your own language's definition for "claim"... but by the rules of the English language and logic and reason and rationality and reality the above statement is arrantly erroneous!!!

 

[Leumas]

Hey JayUtah.... do you want to see what moving the goal posts in fact means???

Here is a good example of numerous illogical fallacies amongst which is the moving of the goal posts right out of the field altogether.

Can we do "lie by omission" next?

Seems to me, if an ad doesn't tell you everything there is to tell, and I mean every damn thing, we could make that charge too.
...

 

[marplots]

Some of the posts in this thread are deceptive.

 

[Leumas]

An age of reason." - See? No claim.

The above is a very definite claim according to the principles of English semantics and syntax and also according to reason and reality and rationality and logic.

No lie possible.

Oh yes it is very possible!!!

 

[JayUtah]

Religious advertising - is it deceptive by the wrangling standards of lawyering applied and squabbled over in courts by lawyers in the employment of advertising agencies and corporations and conglomerates?

Nor is the title "Religious advertising - is it deceptive by the personal standards of some guy who clearly has a bone to pick with religion and a penchant to argue solely by means of mockery?" Don't deny your own interpretation by begging the question of its applicability.

I've explained why I think my standard is applicable. While you have mocked it, you haven't addressed the explanation in any sort of cognitive way.

 

[JayUtah]

The above is a very definite claim according to the principles of English semantics and syntax and also according to reason and reality and rationality and logic.

No, your arguments aren't automatically realist, rational, and logical just because you say they are.

 

[Leumas]

Some of the posts in this thread are deceptive.

Did they deceive you???

If they did deceive you then how do you know they are deceptive???

And if they did not deceive you then according to your own illogic they are not!!!

I'd have to say "No." Because it didn't fool me.

 

[marplots]

Did they deceive you???

If they did deceive you then how do you know they are deceptive???

And if they did not deceive you then according to your own illogic they are not!!!

At first they fooled me, but then, after awhile, I grew suspicious.