States refusing to accept Syrian refugees

[Sabrina]

I don't think so. Again, they are not US citizens, and therefore we are under no obligation to take care of them. Don't confuse mercy with obligation. Secondly, this is a known pathway by which enemies attack us. It only makes sense to leave such a pathway open if 1) there is no other way to defeat the enemy, or 2) you're setting a trap. You don't hand opportunities to your enemies to harm you without cause.

And again, I'm not saying we need to stop accepting refugees entirely. I'm merely saying that at this point, we need to reconsider our evaluation process. If we can find a way to weed out terrorists posing as refugees from actual refugees, cool. Bring 'em in. The USA has a lot of land we're not using; the BLM can help them get established on some of the land that was graded for housing developments in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. If we CAN'T differentiate between refugees and terrorists posing as refugees, obviously we have to consider whether we can allow anyone in. The USA's responsibility is to protect its own citizens from threats foreign and domestic. Protecting someone else's citizens is outside that scope of work.

I realize this was back on the first page, but I'm late to the party; regardless, you do realize that it is FAR easier to insert personnel via a tourist visa, which requires much less stringent checks than being labeled a refugee, don't you? Refugees have MUCH more difficulty gaining entry to the US than tourists do. Seriously; look it up.

 

[Ryokan]

The problem Ryokan is seeing young able bodied men, alone (some going ahead of the family, I know, but they left the family behind, what does that say?) while the US is expected to send our able bodied young men to fight in their country.

I agree with your Jews in WWII example if the Syrians are leaving a completely hopeless situation as no doubt most are. So it is a complex situation. I, myself, have an intellectual response (Jews in WWII) and an emotional response (all those young able bodied men fleeing, leaving the family behind and it looks like what they might be is economic refugees). It's hard not to react when the US is doing some of the fighting for them.

We are actually fighting for ourselves as well, (back to the intellectual reaction). But I also believe Obama is right, people in those countries and neighboring countries need to be doing the fighting themselves for many reasons.

It's not as simple as some people like their black and white worlds to be.

When you talk about young able bodied men, alone, I think you are talking about the asylum seekers who are showing up in Europe. It's a long, hard and dangerous trek from Syria and surrounding areas to Europe, and we have seen what can happen to children on this journey. It shouldn't come as a big surprise that it's mostly fit young men that do this and not young women with children and old grandfathers.

When it comes to the US accepting refugees, I have to assume it's the same as with the refugess my country has said they will take in: They're chosen from the refugee camps in the surrounding area of the conflict and airlifted in, and that this means that young able bodied men, alone, won't be the only ones chosen. There's a difference between quota refugees and asylum seekers.

 

[NoahFence]

No. Allowing a terrorist organization to take over entire countries is a great way to multiply it's numbers though.

We've armed countless middle-eastern idiots who wound up pointing our guns right back at us.

Am I to understand that you are opposed to Syrians defending their country against terrorist invaders?

Nope. But as I said, we've been down this road before. I'd need concrete evidence it won't happen again.

Do you know a way of defending a country against being taken over by terrorists that doesn't involve fighting the terrorists?

Confusing problem, isn't it? Middle Eastern hi-jinks are never black&white

Is that cat's neck broken?

Nah, she was just goofy

 

[Horatius]

But then I am left to ponder why Cullenz would refer only to Syrians, and why you would follow suit.

Have you noticed the title of this thread? And, maybe, I don't know, the incredibly negative reactions to the particularly Syrian refugees this past week?

 

[Toontown]

Have you noticed the title of this thread? And, maybe, I don't know, the incredibly negative reactions to the particularly Syrian refugees this past week?

Can you explain, logically, how the title of the thread makes it logical to leave non-Syrian refugees uncounted in the refugee-resettling contest between the US and NZ?

 

[Toontown]

We've armed countless middle-eastern idiots who wound up pointing our guns right back at us.

Nope. But as I said, we've been down this road before. I'd need concrete evidence it won't happen again.

Confusing problem, isn't it? Middle Eastern hi-jinks are never black&white

Nah, she was just goofy

I fail to see how a general ISIS seizure of the region fails to outweigh all those misgivings. I suppose there is a non-zero probability that ISIS will spontaneously tunnel into another universe.

OTOH, I've been arguing that Saddam's regime was essentially ISIS in another guise. And it has now become the consensus that getting rid of that crowd was the worst blunder in a thousand years, so...

Nah. It doesn't matter. If the consensus says ISIS must be lived with, then the consensus is wrong. That's like living with a den of breeding rattlesnakes under your house. You're going for an ambulance ride with a snake bite. It's just a matter of time.

 

[bonzombiekitty]

I realize this was back on the first page, but I'm late to the party; regardless, you do realize that it is FAR easier to insert personnel via a tourist visa, which requires much less stringent checks than being labeled a refugee, don't you? Refugees have MUCH more difficulty gaining entry to the US than tourists do. Seriously; look it up.

This has been a main argument of mine. If your goal is to randomly attack a soft target in the US, I'd think the easiest route would be to utilize radicalized US citizens and/or just send some people over as tourists. I cannot imagine its hard in the US to obtain the necessary weapons to be able to walk into a crowded area and just start shooting a bunch of people.

 

[cullennz]

Can you explain, logically, how the title of the thread makes it logical to leave non-Syrian refugees uncounted in the refugee-resettling contest between the US and NZ?

Because as the title says, those are the ones your blocking

Can you explain why non Syrian refugees would be counted given the title and logic

 

[Grizzly Bear]

While I hate to agree with racists, there is something to be said in favor of refusing refugees at this time. We know that terrorist organizations targeting the USA are using the influx of refugees into Europe and elsewhere to plant insurgents into their target countries. It's only logical, therefore, to at least temporarily halt the influx of refugees until we can at least figure out how to weed out the terrorists from the folks looking to escape war.

Would this make us jerks? Not in my opinion, but it's also not really a relevant question. I'd rather be treated by Dr. House--someone who's cold, uninterested in my opinions, and effective--than by J.D.--someone warm, open, and so easily distracted that his own friends mock him for it. The cause of the suffering of the refugees is not the USA's refusal to actually put some thought into how we're going to handle the situation; rather, it's ISIS. The fact that we're not willing to commit suicide to help them is only being a jerk in the most superficial and self-destructive interpretation of the events.

seconded, though as others have alluded I don't want hawk too much on JUST the refugee flows. I say allow the refugees in, but take the needed precautions to weed out insurgents that is part of this particular point of entry. And take every other measure to address other points of entry. The effectiveness of the vetting process at all points of entry into the US is what has me concerned more than just the origin or the actual people

 

[Travis]

My personal view is that we should let all the refugees in. Accept that some nasty people will tag along and deal with them as they do whatever terrible thing they attempt. I'm willing to trade some terrorist attacks on my own soil for allowing so many innocent people a way out of that situation. Maybe I'm more confident in my society to deal with and endure some terrorism than so many others.

The way I look at it my society is not going to be toppled by a few terrorist incidents. They are put meddlesome pinpricks poking through a much larger quilt that will stand strong after their own expression of malice has passed.

Are we so afraid? Is this what we've become?

 

[cullennz]

My personal view is that we should let all the refugees in. Accept that some nasty people will tag along and deal with them as they do whatever terrible thing they attempt. I'm willing to trade some terrorist attacks on my own soil for allowing so many innocent people a way out of that situation. Maybe I'm more confident in my society to deal with and endure some terrorism than so many others.

The way I look at it my society is not going to be toppled by a few terrorist incidents. They are put meddlesome pinpricks poking through a much larger quilt that will stand strong after their own expression of malice has passed.

Are we so afraid? Is this what we've become?

Pretty much my opinion

 

[trustbutverify]

My personal view is that we should let all the refugees in. Accept that some nasty people will tag along and deal with them as they do whatever terrible thing they attempt.

Accept all Syrian refugees into the US? Isn't Iran closer? Why not have Iran take in nearly all Syrian refugees and have the US accept the small portion leftover?

 

[Sabrina]

Accept all Syrian refugees into the US? Isn't Iran closer? Why not have Iran take in nearly all Syrian refugees and have the US accept the small portion leftover?

What makes you think Iran would be willing to do that? Thus far they have not expressed any public statements that indicate they would be willing to accept any Syrian refugees.

And it's not ALL refugees; just 10000. A mere drop in the bucket when you consider the US Population is over three hundred million.

 

[trustbutverify]

What makes you think Iran would be willing to do that? Thus far they have not expressed any public statements that indicate they would be willing to accept any Syrian refugees.

I don't think Iran is willing to. That's my point.

And it's not ALL refugees; just 10000. A mere drop in the bucket when you consider the US Population is over three hundred million.

When Travis stated that the US should accept all the Syrian refugees, I assumed he meant all of them. I'm sorry if that's not what he meant.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Accept all Syrian refugees into the US? Isn't Iran closer? Why not have Iran take in nearly all Syrian refugees and have the US accept the small portion leftover?

No reason why it would have to be only the US. I think every country should take as many as they can.

Personally I think that's the morally right thing to do and that should be justification enough but it's also probably the right thing to do even from a selfish point of view if you want to eradicate Muslim extremist terrorism.

For some back of an envelope maths, if say 1 in 10 Muslims in Syria are radicalized and say 1 in 100 are in the US then every 100 people the US takes in from Syria there's 9 less people that want to do it harm.

On a broader scale if every Middle Eastern Muslim had the opportunity to leave and go to Europe or the US rather than live in a dictatorship or theocracy or whatever else there would probably be less of a problem in the first place.

The latter is pie in the sky probably but moving further towards it seems preferable to moving back to building walls and caging people in.

 

[Peterson]

My personal view is that we should let all the refugees in. Accept that some nasty people will tag along and deal with them as they do whatever terrible thing they attempt. I'm willing to trade some terrorist attacks on my own soil for allowing so many innocent people a way out of that situation. Maybe I'm more confident in my society to deal with and endure some terrorism than so many others.

The way I look at it my society is not going to be toppled by a few terrorist incidents. They are put meddlesome pinpricks poking through a much larger quilt that will stand strong after their own expression of malice has passed.

Are we so afraid? Is this what we've become?

After a bit of thought I came to the same conclusion last night. While we debate and weigh options, people are suffering. Let's alleviate the suffering first and deal with whatever else afterwards. Let's take a million!

The GOP may lose some of the Christian vote as a result of this, not that I'm all that worried about that clown car:

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/refugees-christians-215991

 

[Travis]

I don't think Iran is willing to. That's my point.


When Travis stated that the US should accept all the Syrian refugees, I assumed he meant all of them. I'm sorry if that's not what he meant.

The current refugees will be divided and distributed to willing nations proportional to their ability to take care of them. America as a very large nation with more money than any other nation on the planet will certainly get the largest proportion.

 

[dudalb]

After a bit of thought I came to the same conclusion last night. While we debate and weigh options, people are suffering. Let's alleviate the suffering first and deal with whatever else afterwards. Let's take a million!

The GOP may lose some of the Christian vote as a result of this, not that I'm all that worried about that clown car:

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/refugees-christians-215991

To be fair, some Democrats seem to be pandering to the Fear Factor also.

 

[Travis]

I expanded my thoughts with the following which will also appear on social media. I expect Republicans to ask for my deportation now.

Nothing comes without risk. Trying to avoid all risk leads to a pretty crappy world. Helping people does come with some risks but my personal view is that we should take those risks. Thus I say we let all the refugees in that are willing to make that journey. We should accept that a tiny proportion of these haggard and desperate people will have ill intentions and deal with them as they do whatever terrible thing they attempt. Or, even better, win them over by demonstrating our compassion. But I'm willing to trade some terrorist attacks on my own soil for allowing so many innocent people a way out of a truly horrible situation. Maybe I'm more confident in my society to deal with and endure some terrorism than so many others.

America is vast nation with more money than any other nation. We absolutely could purpose that potential into doing something that, while risky and not immediately beneficial, is the right thing to do.

Doing the right thing often comes with some risk. I've opened my home to people in desperate situations many times. Sometimes they rob me. Sometimes they become good friends after they have righted themselves. People often ask me why I would continue to do this when not knowing the outcome. I answer: because it is the right thing to do. And it is. Regardless of what happens.

I get that many have latched onto this to further their own agendas and sowed fear to accomplish their goals. But understand that the refugees are more like us than different. We are all people. We all have dreams. We all want security and stability. We all want to see our children grow and prosper. We want that. They want that. We have the ability within our grasp to help this happen for both. If we choose to not do this then we should not pretend we are doing this to protect us from a nebulous boogeyman. We should acknowledge that we are doing it because we either just don't care or we are too blinded by hate to see that their outstretched hands are asking for help and not grasping a trigger for a bomb.

I know some will say I hate America for having this view. But it is because I believe we have an ability to do good that I feel this way. I think this nation and its people are stronger than the malevolent aims of any tiny proportion of the Syrian diaspora.

If you agree then speak up or see hate and fear supplant good will and hope.

 

[Meed]

In the past 10 years, in the US, there's been approximately...

8 people killed in terrorist attacks perpetrated by people not born in the US
23 people killed in terrorist attacks that had anything to do with Islam or Muslims
49 people killed in terrorist attacks
300 people killed by lightning
160,00 regular homicides
366,00 motor vehicle fatalities