Hillary Clinton is Done

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Trouble is that this isn't binary. Sanders has support from people who do not consider themselves Democrats and who would not vote for Hillary under any circumstances. You cannot get their votes by appealing to Democrat Solidarity.
The trouble for Sanders is that he just doesn't have much support, compared to Clinton. If he does somehow win the nomination, I'm sure a lot of Clinton supporters would support him. It just looks rather unlikely since his poll numbers are half of Clinton's.
 
The trouble for Sanders is that he just doesn't have much support, compared to Clinton. If he does somehow win the nomination, I'm sure a lot of Clinton supporters would support him. It just looks rather unlikely since his poll numbers are half of Clinton's.

I've been in lots of come from behind campaigns, and this one will be that.

I have not seen a grassroots movement so effective since the Vietnam War protests. We have now almost a million individual donors and every one of those is a locked in vote and many are volunteering. We will have larger phone banks running than you ever saw in an American election. We will have more door-to-door and public event outreach than any campaign you ever saw.

Not only will we win, but we will have long coattails. We will control the Senate and possibly the House.

And I will drink deeply of the bitter tears of hostile critics like yourself.
 
I've been in lots of come from behind campaigns, and this one will be that.

I have not seen a grassroots movement so effective since the Vietnam War protests. We have now almost a million individual donors and every one of those is a locked in vote and many are volunteering. We will have larger phone banks running than you ever saw in an American election. We will have more door-to-door and public event outreach than any campaign you ever saw.

Not only will we win, but we will have long coattails. We will control the Senate and possibly the House.

And I will drink deeply of the bitter tears of hostile critics like yourself.

Your votes are only locked in if Sanders wins the nomination, which is not looking likely at all. You might be surprised how few of those almost a million donors can vote for him in the primary. You are counting on R's and I's in your previous post, but most states don't allow R's to vote in a D primary, or even I's.

Hostile critic? Other than pointing out the fact that his numbers look bad, and aren't getting any better, how have I criticized Sanders?
 
Your votes are only locked in if Sanders wins the nomination, which is not looking likely at all. You might be surprised how few of those almost a million donors can vote for him in the primary. You are counting on R's and I's in your previous post, but most states don't allow R's to vote in a D primary, or even I's.

Hostile critic? Other than pointing out the fact that his numbers look bad, and aren't getting any better, how have I criticized Sanders?

This year, the Nomination *is* the election. Whoever wins the Democratic Nomination will be President. And we have that sewn up.
 
This year, the Nomination *is* the election. Whoever wins the Democratic Nomination will be President. And we have that sewn up.

I think it's a mistake to believe that. The general election is a long way off. Al Gore was the front-runner (and the popular vote winner) in 2000. How did that work out? Obama won in 2008 in part because, as a new face, his supporters were able to project their hopes onto him. Hillary has a 30-year record in public life, and as much as her fans can look to her record for reasons to support her, her opponents can use her record against her. There is a limit to the number of times Hillary can reinvent herself. And if there is any misstep -- any health issue, any revelations from two ongoing federal investigations of her emails, any proof of shady dealing by her foundation -- she's sunk. I also think it's a mistake to think that there is universal enthusiasm to elect the first woman president. A lot of people might well think "Maybe some woman, but not this woman." Hillary will probably win the nomination; then an uphill battle begins.
 
This year, the Nomination *is* the election. Whoever wins the Democratic Nomination will be President. And we have that sewn up.
I doubt that. Republicans have made a lot of hay about Obama being a socialist, even though that is far from the truth. How electable is someone who calls himself a socialist? Clinton has far more support among Democrats, but once Trump, Carson, and the rest of the loons are weeded out, the Republicans may end up with someone who can beat either of them.
 
I doubt that. Republicans have made a lot of hay about Obama being a socialist, even though that is far from the truth. How electable is someone who calls himself a socialist? Clinton has far more support among Democrats, but once Trump, Carson, and the rest of the loons are weeded out, the Republicans may end up with someone who can beat either of them.

The funny thing is that Paul Ryan is the most presidential looking republican right now.

(This is not an endorsement of Ryan)
 
I'm more concerned about what she won't do with regards to corporatism run wild, the planet wide disasters of human forced climate change, wealth and racial inequality, and the list continues to grow...
I'm unable to square this with the fact that you voted for her in 2008. What has she done/said in the past 7 years that causes your about-face?

In the likely event she gets the nomination, I intend to wave this at you... :)

Clinton said:
The reality of climate change is unforgiving no matter what the deniers say.

Trump said:
We could use a big fat dose of global warming!
 
I'm more concerned about what she won't do with regards to corporatism run wild, the planet wide disasters of human forced climate change, wealth and racial inequality, and the list continues to grow...
THE issue in this election is the Supreme Court. The next prez will probably nominate 4 justices. Ask yourself who you want to be making those nominations. Trump? God help us. Cruz? Carson? Rubio? Same answer.

No, sitting this one out is like voting to have a Supreme Court making countless 8-1 or 7-2 decisions that set the country back 100 years. All else pales in comparison.
 
THE issue in this election is the Supreme Court. The next prez will probably nominate 4 justices. Ask yourself who you want to be making those nominations. Trump? God help us. Cruz? Carson? Rubio? Same answer.

No, sitting this one out is like voting to have a Supreme Court making countless 8-1 or 7-2 decisions that set the country back 100 years. All else pales in comparison.
I couldn't agree more.

(Obligatory curse of Bill Clinton, for appointing geezers.)
 
Military service is a personal choice, not one that others can generally make for you, one way or the other. it is good that you support your son's choice, but I find it curious that you seem to find disgust in your nephew's choice to enlist.

I agree completely with Sanders that war, should always be the last option and choice, and generally only used when left with no other choice. Soldiers do not mind risking their lives to protect their nation, but most get pretty pissed off when they are asked to die for partisan ideological whims and fancies.
I'm disgusted that Bush and the Neocons created the disaster in the first place.

I didn't say I was disgusted in my step-nephew, only in my brother implying my son and I were ignoring our duty.

"My brother disapproved that I didn't want my son to enlist."

I'm sure Clinton and Sanders agree war is a last resort. What I'm saying is Clinton has the better experience that we need to get out of the mess we are in.
 
I don't disagree with much you say, except the opening and closing. I don't think it's going to come down to "voting" for Sanders... I think he'll have conceded by the New York primary in mid-April. But I'll support him in posts and verbally among friends, because he's closer to my own beliefs.

And as to what the country needs? Yes, we need a strong leader but not so strong as to one who doesn't listen. I like Hillary's evolution on various topics. It's an old argument: Which is better, a politician with a vision who will follow that vision regardless or a politician who actually moves with changing times even if it means seeming to contradict a former position? But for the future of the country, I personally feel that it's equally important the the Democratic Party stop trying to sell itself as Republican Lite and get back to its populist basis. Reclaim the reasonable middle and left-of-middle. When the oppositions biggest insult is "LOL! Libruls!", the answer should be "Yep, and damned proud of it!" Posters on these boards are not the general population of Dems running for office. Most of them, as you know, spend a lot of money showing just how Not Liberal they are. Obama showed that there's a motivated and dedicated liberal/progressive bloc out there. They need to move towards it. I think Sanders' candidacy helps and I want to see him in the race long enough to keep that discussion going. If it forces Billary to the left? Good! I'll take it because I think she's going to win, anyway. Reminding her (as it took ten year to remind Obama) of that constituency is important.

If it weren't for the women's issues I find very important, I might find myself agreeing with you that Sanders was closer to my ideals. I can imagine more than a few conservative blacks choosing Obama despite thinking he wasn't conservative enough.
 
Trouble is that this isn't binary. Sanders has support from people who do not consider themselves Democrats and who would not vote for Hillary under any circumstances. You cannot get their votes by appealing to Democrat Solidarity.

We all know there are Hillary haters. And yet she has a lot of support among women and Democrats. So who are these closet socialists you speak of? Would that be the Green Party?
 
I'm unable to square this with the fact that you voted for her in 2008. What has she done/said in the past 7 years that causes your about-face?

Compared to Obama, she (seemed) the better option at the time. Obama turned out worse than I expected and Hillary has moved even more to the right.

In the likely event she gets the nomination, I intend to wave this at you... :)

If I offer support or suggest that I am voting for her in 2016, call the cops because someone has stolen my identity. If Senator Sanders loses the Democratic nomination, I'll vote for Jill Stein in the general.
 
THE issue in this election is the Supreme Court. The next prez will probably nominate 4 justices. Ask yourself who you want to be making those nominations. Trump? God help us. Cruz? Carson? Rubio? Same answer.

No, sitting this one out is like voting to have a Supreme Court making countless 8-1 or 7-2 decisions that set the country back 100 years. All else pales in comparison.

That boogieman has been trotted out for more than 20 years, and it doesn't scare me. Maybe if the people get a big enough taste of unfettered conservatism it will lose the appeal it generates when progressives buffer its consequences.
 
If I offer support or suggest that I am voting for her in 2016, call the cops because someone has stolen my identity. If Senator Sanders loses the Democratic nomination, I'll vote for Jill Stein in the general.
Folks who thought like you made W president in 2000. (Yes, they had help.) Sometimes you've got to hold your nose and vote for the lesser evil.
 
That boogieman has been trotted out for more than 20 years, and it doesn't scare me. Maybe if the people get a big enough taste of unfettered conservatism it will lose the appeal it generates when progressives buffer its consequences.
Boogieman implies something that's not real. SCOTUS composition is entirely real, the impacts are real, and long lasting.
 
Folks who thought like you made W president in 2000. (Yes, they had help.) Sometimes you've got to hold your nose and vote for the lesser evil.

It's become a habit on the left, one I've broken. Like I said if that puts the GOP in a complete state of power, they can't blame anyone else when the economy turns to crap and society comes to resemble the banana republics the right seem to so love. Conservative sycophants won't change if progressives keep protecting them from the pain of their decisions.
 
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