The day you are saved - from religion

[sylvan8798]

Many people who claim they are "saved" will recount their vivid memories of the day and time when they "accepted Jesus" in their lives and were "saved".

I've been a (closet) atheist for many years, but this morning, driving to work, I found myself crossing some great divide. I was thinking about how Jesus is like the best "imaginary friend". He loves you, you can talk to him (and he answers, somehow), he never deserts you, yada, yada. Like a puppy, only eternally there.

So then someone says to you - "you can have this great imaginary friend". Then they way "You MUST accept this imaginary friend in your life or you will have eternal damnation." Then some other guy says "If you have this imaginary friend I will cut your head off. And btw eternal damnation for having imaginary friend." And then all the people with or without the imaginary friends demand that you take them seriously, when you don't take it seriously that your 5-year-old has an imaginary friend. Or that your slightly crazy cousin thinks his friend is talking to him via his tissue box.

The utter absurdity of the whole thing crashed down like a **** load of bricks. I've always thought religions were, in general, innocuous, and I've attended the Catholic church (to pacify others) for decades. Now I suddenly get why some atheists are so militant.

I don't know where I go from here, since keeping the peace is ostensibly more important than trying to change anything

Venting here in the safest place I actually belong to.

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited to remove breach of rule 10. Do not disguise swearing in your posts; type the word in full and allow the autocensor to take care of it.

 

[Resume]

Welcome to former catholic, now atheist club.

First rule is Sundays are now open.

 

[sylvan8798]

^Keeping peace - Sundays not open, lol. Besides, football god.

 

[MikeG]

.........Now I suddenly get why some atheists are so militant. ...........

Most aren't, of course, and you might find your transition easier if you take a calm and quiet approach to this. Impress people (IRL) with your thoughtfulness on the subject (if it ever arises), rather than with your emotion.

 

[arthwollipot]

Most aren't, of course, and you might find your transition easier if you take a calm and quiet approach to this. Impress people (IRL) with your thoughtfulness on the subject (if it ever arises), rather than with your emotion.

^ Yeah, this.

 

[Jules Galen]

The utter absurdity of the whole thing crashed down like a s*tload of bricks. I've always thought religions were, in general, innocuous, and I've attended the Catholic church (to pacify others) for decades. Now I suddenly get why some atheists are so militant.

I don't know where I go from here, since keeping the peace is ostensibly more important than trying to change anything

Venting here in the safest place I actually belong to.

I am no psychologist. BUT...I went through a phase in my deconversion where I was awfully angry at religion and I've heard a lot of people say they've been through a similar phase, too.

Anyways...If you are entering a phase of anger at religion and want to "Keep the Peace", then I offer you some advice that has worked well for me every time I have used it: Shut Up when you are angry!

I never got in trouble for "Biting my Toungue" so-to-speak. But, I have said a few things about religion to some of my religious relatives in moments of anger that left wounds - wounds that took years to repair.

Eventually, the anger subsided a great deal.

I hope this helps and doesn't come off as being condescending or overly simplistic.

Good luck!

 

[arthwollipot]

Try to remember that the majority of religious people aren't bad people. They just want to get on with their lives. A lot of them donate to charity. Focus your ire on those religious people who are actually engaged in harming others, and leave the majority alone.

 

[rjh01]

Some people need religion. Why I do not know. Lucky for me I am not one of those people. Looks like you are another.

 

[Tassman]

Many people who claim they are "saved" will recount their vivid memories of the day and time when they "accepted Jesus" in their lives and were "saved".

I've been a (closet) atheist for many years, but this morning, driving to work, I found myself crossing some great divide. I was thinking about how Jesus is like the best "imaginary friend". He loves you, you can talk to him (and he answers, somehow), he never deserts you, yada, yada. Like a puppy, only eternally there.

So then someone says to you - "you can have this great imaginary friend". Then they way "You MUST accept this imaginary friend in your life or you will have eternal damnation." Then some other guy says "If you have this imaginary friend I will cut your head off. And btw eternal damnation for having imaginary friend." And then all the people with or without the imaginary friends demand that you take them seriously, when you don't take it seriously that your 5-year-old has an imaginary friend. Or that your slightly crazy cousin thinks his friend is talking to him via his tissue box.

The utter absurdity of the whole thing crashed down like a **** load of bricks. I've always thought religions were, in general, innocuous, and I've attended the Catholic church (to pacify others) for decades. Now I suddenly get why some atheists are so militant.

I don't know where I go from here, since keeping the peace is ostensibly more important than trying to change anything

Venting here in the safest place I actually belong to.

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited to remove breach of rule 10. Do not disguise swearing in your posts; type the word in full and allow the autocensor to take care of it.

Most religious people are well-meaning, innocent dupes. But religion itself has a lot to answer for with its demand for social conformity and long history of subordinating scientific fact to revealed "truth".

 

[aleCcowaN]

The utter absurdity of the whole thing crashed down like a **** load of bricks. I've always thought religions were, in general, innocuous, and I've attended the Catholic church (to pacify others) for decades. Now I suddenly get why some atheists are so militant.

I don't know where I go from here, since keeping the peace is ostensibly more important than trying to change anything

Don't mix up atheism with anti-theism. Many anti-theists -there are half a dozen of ferocious ones in these fora- only want to take 5 year old laddies and shake them shouting «Santa doesn't exist, you stupid prick! It's your parents, who, by the way, don't even love you! You're alone for the rest of your petty short life, you scum!» and wouldn't stop until the kido dissolves in his tears.

I might understand them a tiny little bit because living in societies like Iran, Yemen or the United States must very difficult sometimes, with all the primitive traits and whatnot. But you must know religion is part of human nature and you shouldn't dehumanize yourself during the journey you started.

By the way, I'm a postheist, which means I wonder what the hell am I doing here, writing about amulets and ghosts and evil eye and assorted Jebuses.

 

[sylvan8798]

I am no psychologist. BUT...I went through a phase in my deconversion where I was awfully angry at religion and I've heard a lot of people say they've been through a similar phase, too.

Anyways...If you are entering a phase of anger at religion and want to "Keep the Peace", then I offer you some advice that has worked well for me every time I have used it: Shut Up when you are angry!

I never got in trouble for "Biting my Tongue" so-to-speak. But, I have said a few things about religion to some of my religious relatives in moments of anger that left wounds - wounds that took years to repair.

This is key, since others in the family are very religious, including a "born again" sister-in-law who goes on endlessly. I've learned to smile and nod for the most part, although sometimes that smile is me gritting my teeth.

Eventually, the anger subsided a great deal.

I hope this helps and doesn't come off as being condescending or overly simplistic.

Good luck!

Not at all, and thanks for the good wishes !

 

[pharphis]

Having come from a religious background you probably already know this but being religious /= being stupid. Although I doubt most vocal atheists feel that religious people are stupid, we often come across as attacking individuals rather than their beliefs (and many interpret attacks on belief as attacking an individual - because they identify AS their beliefs).

If you want a nuanced and non-aggressive opinion of a vocal atheist (presuambly antitheist), I can't recommend highly enough that you check out TheraminTrees on youtube. His content is easily digestible and you might find it useful in showing others why you lost faith, since he covers so much content.

His most recent video is below and the emphasis for the video is that we can ALL be manipulated, regardless of how gullible someone isn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaUhR-tRkHY

 

[ddt]

This is key, since others in the family are very religious, including a "born again" sister-in-law who goes on endlessly. I've learned to smile and nod for the most part, although sometimes that smile is me gritting my teeth.

Isn't it possible for you to tell her off, firmly and politely, that you're not religious, you don't believe in God, and you're not interested in her stories how Jesus could save you? I mean, if she was obsessive about quilting, and wouldn't stop going on with quilting stories, you would do that in a heartbeat, wouldn't you?

Have you already come out of the closet as an atheist to your family?

I'm an atheist and everybody else in my family is atheist; and on top of this, there's a wide chasm in attitudes to religion between Europe and the US, so I may underappreciate the magnitude of the task. In any case, I wish you all the luck with it.

 

[stanfr]

I can totally relate to your predicament. Id lose my extended family and a good number of friends if they read even one of my ISF posts. Of course, with even a bit of effort anyone could 'discover' my agnostic tendencies, so I don't feel closeted, just trying to maintain the peace, as you say. It's frustrating though, since even though you know you are on the winning side, if you were to argue with the believers, they ultimately believe that they will have the last laugh after we all die, and they can smugly point to St Peter and say, "See, I was right!" Whereas, If you are correct, ultimate victory escapes you in the argument, since you turn to worm food once your time is up. Hence, it may not be worthwhile engaging in argument, cause you can never say, "I told you so!"

 

[aleCcowaN]

That reminds me why I repeat the words of Jorge Luis Borges: "when I die, I will die both body and soul". I really hope they reach their heaven. For me this life, whether good or bad, is enough.

 

[Aridas]

Most aren't, of course, and you might find your transition easier if you take a calm and quiet approach to this. Impress people (IRL) with your thoughtfulness on the subject (if it ever arises), rather than with your emotion.

Decent advice, I'd say.

I am no psychologist. BUT...I went through a phase in my deconversion where I was awfully angry at religion and I've heard a lot of people say they've been through a similar phase, too.

Personally, I don't think it was anger for me. I felt betrayed, I think, more than much else, and no longer being able to rely on something that loved me unconditionally and made me part of a great purpose darkened my outlook on life and was a definite contributing factor to a period of my life where I was depressed enough to be only somewhat functional. My actual anger that was related to religion, such as it was, remained directed specifically at those who had to be knowingly or occasionally were simply stubbornly forwarding fallacious arguments in support of their views. I encountered lots of Creationist arguments during that time, though, as I really tried to give my former faith a serious chance, admittedly with the shared objective of facing the lurking beliefs head on, and the consistent and remarkable dishonesty inherent in those arguments did play a part in how things ended up.

This is key, since others in the family are very religious, including a "born again" sister-in-law who goes on endlessly. I've learned to smile and nod for the most part, although sometimes that smile is me gritting my teeth.

For me, much of my family and extended family is rather religious. Given me, I generally don't raise religious issues with them, though I have made my overall position fairly clear to them, and I generally don't hold back my thoughts, though I do try to keep things polite on my end and direct all the criticism that I make at the actual arguments, if I know that the criticism is, in fact, valid criticism, rather than just something that I'm throwing out because I want to deny their position. If I didn't have valid criticism, I made it a habit to seriously consider the point until I reached a conclusion that could stand up to the potential counterarguments. I tend to like the actual people, after all, even if I do disagree with some of their beliefs and positions, and I've consistently made it clear that I care about the arguments being used far more than the specific beliefs being supported.

 

[Trebuchet]

Having come from a religious background you probably already know this but being religious /= being stupid.

Nor do other forms of idiocy necessarily equal stupid. Many highly intelligent people believe extremely stupid stuff. Religion, conspiracy theories, racism, etc. At least two current presidential candidates right now qualify.

For me, there was no epiphany, but it came pretty early. I was confirmed in my (liberal protestant) church being pretty sure in my heart there was no god.

 

[sylvan8798]

Isn't it possible for you to tell her off, firmly and politely, that you're not religious, you don't believe in God, and you're not interested in her stories how Jesus could save you? I mean, if she was obsessive about quilting, and wouldn't stop going on with quilting stories, you would do that in a heartbeat, wouldn't you?

Have you already come out of the closet as an atheist to your family?

I'm an atheist and everybody else in my family is atheist; and on top of this, there's a wide chasm in attitudes to religion between Europe and the US, so I may underappreciate the magnitude of the task. In any case, I wish you all the luck with it.

Firmly wedged in the closet, lol. Discussing it with any of them would only cause problems which would be pointless, as they are not resolvable - as stanfr points out. I HAVE told my 20-something children that I will stand by them if they decide to leave the church or switch to some other religion.

I'm endlessly amazed by my sister-in-law's remarkable ability to hold beliefs which are utterly at odds with one another. And with logic.

 

[Leumas]

...
If you want a nuanced and non-aggressive opinion of a vocal atheist (presuambly antitheist), I can't recommend highly enough that you check out TheraminTrees on youtube. His content is easily digestible and you might find it useful in showing others why you lost faith, since he covers so much content.

His most recent video is below and the emphasis for the video is that we can ALL be manipulated, regardless of how gullible someone isn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaUhR-tRkHY

I particularly like this one of his.... please especially listen intently to minutes 0:26:00 to 0:29:00 they are profoundly TRUE.

 

[Leumas]

Firmly wedged in the closet, lol. Discussing it with any of them would only cause problems which would be pointless, as they are not resolvable - as stanfr points out. I HAVE told my 20-something children that I will stand by them if they decide to leave the church or switch to some other religion.

I'm endlessly amazed by my sister-in-law's remarkable ability to hold beliefs which are utterly at odds with one another. And with logic.

I find especially poignant that while people like your sister-in-law are allowed free reign to spout their stuff (and this is perceived to be acceptable and normal), people like you are being advised to keep their ideas to themselves and not to speak out because you might offend.

I especially find it amusing that the majority of advise to you in this thread is to stay quite while being told that it is impolite and confrontationally belligerent to object or to oppose the free reign of vociferous ignorance.

I especially find it sad that in the 21st century the advice to the enlightened is to shut up and keep their enlightenments to themselves to avoid hurting the feelings of the benighted and to avoid challenging their crap, while they get to keep on disseminating their benightedness and peddling it loudly and assertively with all the might they can muster and with impunity.

All in the name of being polite.

It is polite to refrain from opposing lies and stupidity.... just because it is coming from traditions and family.

Bad advice!!!