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Split Thread Foreknowledge of events on 9/11

DGM said:
Yes it did. This would be how they would separate it from the hundreds of other threats. It's easy after the fact to do this.

Tell me what exactly made this threat special among the hundreds of others? It was only separated out after because the players were known (after the fact).

You don't understand the concept of hind-sight.
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There had been many warnings of a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack coming into the CIA, NSA and FBI HQ from April 2001 on. This attack was described as coming without warning, spectacular, and an attack that would cause mass causalities.

In the August 2001, the CIA and FBI HQ's found out that two al Qaeda terrorists, and only two al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US, Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi. The CIA, NSA and even the FBI knew these al Qaeda terrorists had been connected directly to people in al Qaeda that had carried out the bombing of the US embassies in east Africa. The CIA and FBI HQ's even knew that these two al Qaeda terrorists had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting on January 5-8-2000.

Yet in spite of knowing that both Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing, the CIA and FBI HQ's had decided to not only keep this information secret from the FBI criminal agents on the Cole bombing, but even shut down their criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi when these agents wanted to start an investigation and find these al Qaeda terrorists before they had time to take part in a terrorist attack inside of the US.

Now let’s see if anyone can connect these dots. Now this is really hard.

The CIA and FBI HQ's knows that a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack is just about to take place inside of the US, from April 2001 on, that will cause mass casualties and also knows that two al Qaeda terrorists Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi are inside of the US, and knows of no other al Qaeda terrorists who are inside of the US.

Let’s make this a multi choice question.

(Choice 1)

With only two al Qaeda terrorists inside of the US would it be possible for the CIA and FBI HQ to connect these dots, connect al Qaeda terrorists Mihdhar and Hazmi to this huge al Qaeda terrorist attack,

(Choice 2). or are there just way too many dots to connect only two known al Qaeda terrorists inside of the US to this massive al Qaeda terrorist attack just about to take place inside of the US.

Several people on the site say that Is this just too hard to have connected these dots, and in fact when you point this out you are using (yes that ubiquitous "H" word, HINDSIGHT). This is in spite of the fact that both the CIA and FBI HQ's had known that Mihdhar and Hazmi had been inside of the US, 3 weeks prior to that attacks on 9/11.

This also clearly explains why George Tenet, Director of the CIA, who had known about this huge al Qaeda terrorist attack, and that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US on August 22, 2001 and also knew on August 23, 2001, that Zacarias Moussaoui had been arrested by the FBI when the FBI thought he was a terrorist trying to learn how to fly a B747 without having so much as a private pilot license, never told the NSA, the FBI or any other cabinet officials in the September 4 2001 Principles meeting on the treat of Al Qaeda. He simply had never connected the dots because as we are told, there were simply way too many dots to connect.
 
paloalto said:
There had been many warnings of a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack coming into the CIA, NSA and FBI HQ from April 2001 on..................
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You didn't answer my question. What made this warning more credible then the hundreds of others? Let me guess, 9/11/2001? :rolleyes:
 
DGM said:
You didn't answer my question. What made this warning more credible then the hundreds of others? Let me guess, 9/11/2001? :rolleyes:
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MY GOD MAN, REREAD MY POST!

What were the other threats that were more credible then knowing a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack was just about to take place inside of the US. As my last post stated, the CIA, NSA and FBI HQ's had been getting many warnings of this huge al Qaeda terrorist attack aimed right at the US. We now know that these attack warning were numerous and so horrific that Tenet, Black and Blee got into a car on July 10, 2001. and raced to the White House, calling Condoleezza Rice while in the car, to request an immediate and urgent meeting with her and other members of the National Security council to lay out these warning to her, John Hadley and Richard Clarke.

I don't know of any other warnings that even come close to this level of urgency, maybe you do.

Please spell out these hundreds of other credible warning here, if you can, that were as credible as these numerous warnings of a terrorist attack by the al Qaeda terrorists?
 
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At any given point in time there are literally hundreds (if not thousands or tens of thousands) of pieces of information suggesting an imminent attack on US or Western interests; the difficulty lies in separating out the wheat from the chaff, and there's approximately 90-95% percent chaff. Sure, looking back on 9/11 now, we can certainly say there were warnings; I don't know of a single person who disagrees with that statement. The problem was, at the time they weren't deemed timely or relevant enough, and were likely so vague on details as to be nearly completely useless to do anything with.

The US Intelligence Community has to gauge which threats are of more importance than others, and owing largely to the mistrust between agencies and the threats being incredibly vague to begin with, there wasn't any credence put toward the idea that we could be attacked on our own soil. Up until 9/11, there were NO, I repeat NO majorly successful Islamic fundamentalist terrorist attacks on US soil. The 1993 bombing of the WTC is probably the only one that could be considered semi-successful; it did a decent amount of damage, as well as killing several people and wounding over a thousand, but it failed in its ultimate goal of collapsing the WTC. At the time of 9/11, the worst successful terrorist attack on US soil was the 1995 bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma, and one certainly cannot attribute that to the Islamic fundamentalists, as it was carried out by two Americans. As I understand it, most people thought at the time that the next attack would be overseas, like the bombings in Kenya and Libya (Khobar Towers and the US Embassy, to be more specific), because that was the typical Islamic terrorist M.O. at the time; find a US or Western target in your own backyard and attack it.

At that point, no one had ever hijacked a plane with the intent to turn it into a flying missile; instead they hijacked them to make demands of whatever government they had a beef with and typically let the passengers go free. 9/11 was groundbreaking in many respects; such a simple plan to carry out, and all it required of the hijackers was a little time spent learning to keep a plane in the air and smuggling box cutters and components that LOOKED like they could be a bomb past what was, at the time, extremely lax airport security (although it's not much better now); but oh such a far, FAR-reaching effect on the world.

Point is, we can look back now and say, "my God, we should have seen this coming; look at all the warnings we had", but we're saying that while looking through the lens onto the current view of the world. Back then, however, it just wasn't likely enough to warrant as much attention as some truthers think it should have. Learn to look at it through the eyes of someone who was alive on September 10th, 2001, and not through the eyes of someone alive on September 12th, 2001, and you'll be much better able to understand just why an attack of that magnitude on US soil was deemed to be unlikely.

Did we learn differently? Oh hell yes. But it doesn't negate the validity of the viewpoint of that intelligence analyst who was working in the months leading up to September 11th, who had to look at past actions of Islamic terrorists for clues as to how a new attack might come, and who probably only had a vague report or two from a source on the ground that overheard a conversation two tables away from them that seemed to point to an upcoming attack, but no details were given, and then was asked for their opinion on when and where a new attack might come. I'm fairly sure that most truthers wouldn't have the first idea just how difficult that sort of job can be.
 
Sabrina... that's a good summary. I imagine there were people in the intel community that were MORE concerned but did not have the hard evidence to raise the red flag and get some sort of "action" going.

Did intel know that these hijackers were just waiting for the right moment to get on planes and carry this out? If so were they actually being closely monitored? And since when and why? I suppose if they were dead certain of the coming hijacking they would have had agents in the airports or on the planes to catch them in the act???
 
paloalto said:
MY GOD MAN, REREAD MY POST!

What were the other threats that were more credible then knowing a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack was just about to take place inside of the US. As my last post stated, the CIA, NSA and FBI HQ's had been getting many warnings of this huge al Qaeda terrorist attack aimed right at the US. We now know that these attack warning were numerous and so horrific that Tenet, Black and Blee got into a car on July 10, 2001. and raced to the White House, calling Condoleezza Rice while in the car, to request an immediate and urgent meeting with her and other members of the National Security council to lay out these warning to her, John Hadley and Richard Clarke.

I don't know of any other warnings that even come close to this level of urgency, maybe you do.

Please spell out these hundreds of other credible warning here, if you can, that were as credible as these numerous warnings of a terrorist attack by the al Qaeda terrorists?
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MY GOD MAN, too bad you were not in the FBI; you can tell the future. After it happens.

MY GOD MAN, You left out the part where they kill the pilots and crew as needed to take the planes. Were is the plot in your endless spam of how you know all, after it happened. Where is the exact plot in your warnings before 911.

MY GOD MAN, with your threat assessment future telling techniques, if we apply it to all facets of life, we will have no more accidents, no more robberies, no more murder.

Do you have a way of telling the future? Knowing which plot the next terrorist attack will use?

MY GOD MAN, You left out how they could stop 911. You left out the simple details; who do they arrest. So far seeing the spam, it appears instead of 19 terrorists, 911 would be a 17 terrorist attack. But then logically, telling the future, picking the correct plot is magic.

MY GOD MAN, How would you stop McVeigh? Is OKC the same as 911, it could be stopped with your magical monday morning quarterbacking super BS techniques of woo?

MY GOD MAN, the FBI, the CIA looking for the big attack preparations, missed the simple end run, the on the cheap buy small knives, 5 dollars, cut throats on a domestic flight to remove pilots, free. MY GOD MAN, follow the money failed to show the massive plot, they stole the weapons of mass destruction... MY GOD MAN, the plot was out of the box simple. How do you stop murder? Insurance companies would pay billions to have your insight if it had come before 911, instead of 14 years after.... MY GOD MAN, if we could stuff all this hindsight into pre-sight, we could make Billions.

MY GOD MAN, we could use your perfected knowing all before it happens stuff for football! We could know the exact play that is coming. Talk about greatness.
 
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JSanderO said:
Sabrina... that's a good summary. I imagine there were people in the intel community that were MORE concerned but did not have the hard evidence to raise the red flag and get some sort of "action" going.

Did intel know that these hijackers were just waiting for the right moment to get on planes and carry this out? If so were they actually being closely monitored? And since when and why? I suppose if they were dead certain of the coming hijacking they would have had agents in the airports or on the planes to catch them in the act???
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I'm not exactly privy to the details, but as far as I'm aware there were only two of the 19 hijackers that were even being monitored by a US Intel agency, and that was the FBI, which is more or less the red-headed step-child of the intelligence community because it's the only one that deals with domestic issues and indeed is split between domestic intelligence and law enforcement responsibilities. None of the other 17 had, at that point, raised any major red flags. Had they been dead certain of the coming hijacking to the point of knowing the details paloalto (who thankfully only exists to me in quoted form because he's on my ignore list) claims were known, we would have probably moved in and had them arrested well prior to them actually heading to the airport. We wouldn't have needed to "catch them in the act", because we would have had the details of the plot and would have moved to prevent it. Probably wouldn't have even advertised it beyond a line of "19 men were arrested in conjunction with an apparent terrorist plot to attack the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon and White House/Congress in DC", but no real details. President would have been briefed on a successful mission, and we all would have moved on until the next threat. Reality, despite paloalto's claims, is not that simple.

Had we known the sort of details he claims we knew, we'd be so infallible we'd be able to halt terrorism in its tracks; and yet it continues to this day. A good example of hindsight being 20/20 that is NOT 9/11 lies with former Major Nidal Malik Hasan; looking back in retrospect, the clues were absolutely there about his radicalization and subsequent plan to shoot up Fort Hood, but no one put them all together in time to stop him, and as a result all those people were killed and injured.

According to paloalto though, the US Intelligence community is basically omniscient and knows everything well ahead of time and simply chooses not to do something even when it means thousands of lives are on the line. Anyone who has actually worked in either military intelligence or the US Intelligence Community however knows it is nowhere near that easy and it is an insult to those people to suggest otherwise. Do they WANT that sort of knowledge? HELL YES. Do they get it? HELL NO. Reality is far more vague and requires a hell of a lot of work to get even a glimmer of a clue about an attack; that's just the plain, honest truth.
 
paloalto said:
There had been many warnings of a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack coming into the CIA, NSA and FBI HQ from April 2001 on. This attack was described as coming without warning, spectacular, and an attack that would cause mass causalities.
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Warnings of an attack that's coming without warning?

Did the warnings come from a source who also claimed everything he says is a lie?
 
paloalto said:
SAY WHAT?

IS THERE EVEN ONE PERSON ON THIS FORUM, EVEN ONE SINGLE PERSON, THAT IS SO COMPLTETLY STUPID, SO DEVOID OF EVEN THE SLIGHTEST BRAIN MATTER, TO ACTUALLY BELIEVE THE LIES BY THIS LYING SCUM BAG WHO WAS LITERALLY LETTING THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN THE US BE MUREDERED BY THE AL QAEDA TERRORISTS IN A HUGE ATTACK THAT AT THIS POINT MANY OTHER PEOPL AT THE TOP OF THE US GOVERNMENT IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION ALSO KNEW WAS JUST ABOUT TO TAKE PLACE?
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Way to call anyone who disagrees with you stupid.
 
paloalto said:
MY GOD MAN, REREAD MY POST!
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Calm the hell down, man.

The question is: if you don't have more specific information than you provided, how exactly is the government suppose to act to prevent such a hypothetical attack?

ETA: See Sabrina's thoughtful post.
 
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paloalto said:
The information that the FBI HQ,s and CIA had did not need to be specific. All you needed were the names of some of the al Qaeda terrorists who were going to take part in this attack in order to stop this attack.

By the way I have already shown that this evidence was good and even specific in many other posts.

This was not an insult ridden post: From my prior post:

"My post stated that:

“Even Richard Clarke asked Rice just prior to attending the principles meeting on al Qaeda on September 4, 2001, " I wonder if some day the American people will ask why we did not do more to prevent this (al Qaeda terrorist) attack from taking place". They are still asking this question even to today!”

But the post I am relying to states: "Not likely because, most people know that hindsight is 20/20."

HELLO, HELLO. Has there even been a more stupid reply in all of this time since 9/11. In case you missed it, August 22, 2001, and August 23, 2001 are 3 weeks prior to the attacks on 9/11 not after the attacks on 9/11. We also now know, that by August 22-23, 2001 Tenet, the CIA and FBI HQ’s all knew that a massive al Qaeda terrorist attack was just about to take place aimed right at the US that would cause “mass American casualties”. "

Just stating the facts, if you don't like these facts, then find other fact that can refute this!

From my prior post:

IS THERE EVEN ONE PERSON ON THIS FORUM, EVEN ONE SINGLE PERSON, THAT IS SO COMPLETELY STUPID, SO DEVOID OF EVEN THE SLIGHTEST BRAIN MATTER, TO ACTUALLY BELIEVE THE LIES BY THIS LYING SCUM BAG WHO WAS LITERALLY LETTING THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN THE US BE MURDERED BY THE AL QAEDA TERRORISTS IN A HUGE ATTACK THAT AT THIS POINT MANY OTHER PEOPLE AT THE TOP OF THE US GOVERNMENT IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION ALSO KNEW WAS JUST ABOUT TO TAKE PLACE?

MY GOD MAN, if the shoe fits , then wear it for GODS sake!
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So, you think the FBI could have arrested them because, "We know they're up to no good, but we're not quite sure what it is."?
 
I just realized.

Paloalto apparently thinks we live in the world of Minority Report, where people are capable of precognition and can prevent attacks before they happen.

Guess no one told him/her/it that life is not a Hollywood movie.
 
Sabrina said:
I just realized.

Paloalto apparently thinks we live in the world of Minority Report, where people are capable of precognition and can prevent attacks before they happen.

Guess no one told him/her/it that life is not a Hollywood movie.
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I loved how in the Dark Knight, the Joker was in such control of everything: always knew what everyone was going to do; always one step ahead; and never limited by either time or resources to prepare traps that were so incredibly (and unnecessarily) elaborate that he was just rubbing their faces in it. On the other hand, a friend of mine thought that made the movie "too implausible." Sheesh.
 
paloalto said:
There had been many warnings of a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack coming into the CIA, NSA and FBI HQ from April 2001 on. This attack was described as coming without warning, spectacular, and an attack that would cause mass causalities.

....
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"without warning" -- You do understand that phrase, correct?
"Mass casualties" -- where? The USA is a big place with several large, world known, cities.
"spectacular" -- well now ,that is helpful isn't it?
Let’s make this a multi choice question.

(Choice 1)

With only two al Qaeda terrorists inside of the US would it be possible for the CIA and FBI HQ to connect these dots, connect al Qaeda terrorists Mihdhar and Hazmi to this huge al Qaeda terrorist attack,
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Possibly GIVEN more information and a specific reason to question them.

(Choice 2). or are there just way too many dots to connect only two known al Qaeda terrorists inside of the US to this massive al Qaeda terrorist attack just about to take place inside of the US.
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Closer to the truth. The where is a guess. The when is sometime over a wide range. The who, is implied, a guess. The what is a guess.
Several people on the site say that Is this just too hard to have connected these dots, and in fact when you point this out you are using (yes that ubiquitous "H" word, HINDSIGHT). This is in spite of the fact that both the CIA and FBI HQ's had known that Mihdhar and Hazmi had been inside of the US, 3 weeks prior to that attacks on 9/11.
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Yes, you've said this before. You have two person's that may be involved in a possible terrorist attack, possibly sometime in the next few months, probably in a large city and targeting mass causalities.
 
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