• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

Status
Not open for further replies.
Here is a September 30, 2011 Twitter comment allegedly (unverified) from Donald Trump's Twitter account:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

Everyone should boycott Italy if Amanda Knox is not freed---she is totally innocent.
9:12 AM - 30 Sep 2011

Donald J. Trump
New York, NY
The official Twitter profile for Donald Trump donaldjtrump.com youtube.com/DonaldTrump facebook.com/DonaldTrump
donaldjtrump.com
4,079,872 FOLLOWERS
 
The US Government has never commented publicly on guilt or innocence in the Knox case. It is neutral on the matter. If it is widly or loudly claimed in Italy that the US Government interferred with (pressured) the Government of Italy to arrive at a certain verdict related to Knox, the US Government may finally be forced to take a public position. It could be forced to publicly address any allegation accusing the US Government of tampering in the matter. Will the US Embassy in Rome merely deny pressuring the Italian Government on this issue or will the Embassy go further and comment on the evidence or the quality of the police and prosecution investigation - that is the question.

If Italian guilters become very loud in accusing the US Government of influencing the verdict, the US Government may take action guilters really don't want them to take. The US Government could sponsor more interchanges between US forensic experts and their Italian counterparts. They may offer training in US forensic labs to Italian police officials. It could in the long run become more difficult for unprofessional Italian police or prosecutors to skew DNA evidence if more Italian scientists, journalists, or judges are better informed about forensic DNA.

The Italian Supreme Court's release of its motivation report is front-page news in the US. Yesterday (Monday) was a holiday in the US - Labor Day. Today (Tuesday) people return to work. I expect reporters asking questions of senior government officiaks at press conferences at the White House, Department of State, and Department of Justice to ask senior officials about the findings publicly released in the Italian Supreme Court's motivation report.

I also expect political candidates to be asked about their views. Perhaps Trump will publicly reiterate his earlier statement made 3 years ago that Knox is innocent. Perhaps he will publicly call the Italian police investigation and the prosecution corrupt. That would be headline material.

Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, having been US Secretary of State while Amanda was tried, wrongfully convicted, and imprisoned for four years for a crime she did not commit, will surely in front of media cameras be asked about it and will be asked to explain herself. What did you do, Mrs. Clinton, as Secretary of State to protect this innocent American in this Italian show trial?

Stay tuned! More US news coverage to follow.
To me, a fascinating post Strozzi. I have always been intrigued, Charlie Wilkes is equivocal on the topic, as someone who helped guarantee the State department were certain of her innocence.
I wrote off Clinton as a person on the strength of her distancing herself from Cantwell, but it matters little without realpolitik that I would do so. In New Zealand, Muldoon pardoned Arthur Thomas after 9 years for a crime he did not commit. The New Zealand equivalent of the state department vociferously counceled him against this course of action as it would undermine the system. Nothing has changed in NZ in 40 years.
The fight continues.

TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT but where were his billions for Amanda's family?
 
Anglolawyer, it is in the public record that Mrs Kercher would like to talk to Rudy Guede.
It is in the public record that John Kercher senior refuses to talk to Amanda Knox because he has "heard all that rubbish before".
And in the public record that Stephanie Kercher says "we do not read those books" (those of Knox and Sollecito)".
Therefore my statement stands, but I regard it as fertile ground for debating the roles occupied by police and prosecutors in destroying the fabric of society when they pursue innocent citizens.
Sorry for being ponderous, but it is vital to circle these thugs.

None of that supports your claim.
 
To me, a fascinating post Strozzi. I have always been intrigued, Charlie Wilkes is equivocal on the topic, as someone who helped guarantee the State department were certain of her innocence.
I wrote off Clinton as a person on the strength of her distancing herself from Cantwell, but it matters little without realpolitik that I would do so. In New Zealand, Muldoon pardoned Arthur Thomas after 9 years for a crime he did not commit. The New Zealand equivalent of the state department vociferously counceled him against this course of action as it would undermine the system. Nothing has changed in NZ in 40 years.
The fight continues.

TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT but where were his billions for Amanda's family?

You of course, can support whomever you like for President. There is little question that Trump has supported at least vocally Amanda Knox. But so what? Trump would knock down my 90 year old grandmother to stand in front of a camera or bank of microphones.

What did that cost him? Comparing his actions as a private citizen and Hillary's public actions in her role as the nation's top diplomat is a little unfair don't you think?

I'm curious, did he do anything else? Did he donate a sizable amount to Amanda's defense fund? I personally admire Trump..... as a promoter. Otherwise, I see him as a loud mouth buffoon who couldn't keep his mouth shut if he had it surgically sewed. He makes exciting television...kind of like Jerry Springer.

Why is it that people like him? I'm glad he made his way onto the boob tube and gave voice to this judicial travesty. But I expect a President to be circumspect and thoughtful on occasion and not just a bully with a pulpit.
 
Last edited:
I expect that if there had been an extradition request, Strozzi was correct in that the State Department would play red tape games until Italy gave up.
 
You of course, can support whomever you like for President. There is little question that Trump has supported at least vocally Amanda Knox. But so what? Trump would knock down my 90 year old grandmother to stand in front of a camera or bank of microphones.

What did that cost him? Comparing his actions as a private citizen and Hillary's public actions in her role as the nation's top diplomat is a little unfair don't you think?

I'm curious, did he do anything else? Did he donate a sizable amount to Amanda's defense fund? I personally admire Trump..... as a promoter. Otherwise, I see him as a loud mouth buffoon who couldn't keep his mouth shut if he had it surgically sewed. He makes exciting television...kind of like Jerry Springer.

Why is it that people like him? I'm glad he made his way onto the boob tube and gave voice to this judicial travesty. But I expect a President to be circumspect and thoughtful on occasion and not just a bully with a pulpit.
Clinton was pro forma thus woeful. Her daughter was about same age. 4 years out of general circulation? Ok with that to allow authentic process to play out?
Oh no n no.no
 
Incidentally, the ISC report makes specific reference to Kercher's stomach contents at autopsy to place the time of death firmly at some point between 8.56pm and 10.12pm. Just as many of us have been saying time and time again for years.....

:)
 
You of course, can support whomever you like for President. There is little question that Trump has supported at least vocally Amanda Knox. But so what? Trump would knock down my 90 year old grandmother to stand in front of a camera or bank of microphones.

What did that cost him? Comparing his actions as a private citizen and Hillary's public actions in her role as the nation's top diplomat is a little unfair don't you think?

I'm curious, did he do anything else? Did he donate a sizable amount to Amanda's defense fund? I personally admire Trump..... as a promoter. Otherwise, I see him as a loud mouth buffoon who couldn't keep his mouth shut if he had it surgically sewed. He makes exciting television...kind of like Jerry Springer.

Why is it that people like him? I'm glad he made his way onto the boob tube and gave voice to this judicial travesty. But I expect a President to be circumspect and thoughtful on occasion and not just a bully with a pulpit.

It's all very vague. I've read quotes in the press like the following, which don't really say much:

Business magnate Donald Trump told CNN that Knox could "become a big star and somehow she can get some dividends out of this nightmare for herself." "The Apprentice" host didn't specify whether he'll personally help Knox in any celebrity deals, he did say that he's offered support to her family.
"I've been supporting the family and helping the family and I'll continue to help the family. They went through a lot; I just felt badly," Trump told CNN.

http://www.today.com/id/44787876/ns...dom-leaves-family-shackled-debt/#.Ve7k-RFVhBc
 
Incidentally, the ISC report makes specific reference to Kercher's stomach contents at autopsy to place the time of death firmly at some point between 8.56pm and 10.12pm. Just as many of us have been saying time and time again for years.....

:)

They seem to have paid heed to the science this time.
 
Incidentally, the ISC report makes specific reference to Kercher's stomach contents at autopsy to place the time of death firmly at some point between 8.56pm and 10.12pm. Just as many of us have been saying time and time again for years.....

:)

Yes. This is good stuff. As reported:

"Even the supposed time of death, as argued by prosecutors, reflected a "deplorable approximation," they wrote."

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/ar...knox-conviction-was-based-on-poor-case?page=2

I also like this a lot:

"The kitchen knife, found in Sollecito's house and the supposed crime weapon, was kept in an ordinary cardboard box, like the kind that Christmas gadgets are packaged in," the Cassation judges noted. In any case, no traces of blood were found on it, they wrote."
 
If Italian guilters become very loud in accusing the US Government of influencing the verdict, the US Government may take action guilters really don't want them to take. The US Government could sponsor more interchanges between US forensic experts and their Italian counterparts. They may offer training in US forensic labs to Italian police officials. It could in the long run become more difficult for unprofessional Italian police or prosecutors to skew DNA evidence if more Italian scientists, journalists, or judges are better informed about forensic DNA.

The Italian Supreme Court's release of its motivation report is front-page news in the US. Yesterday (Monday) was a holiday in the US - Labor Day. Today (Tuesday) people return to work. I expect reporters asking questions of senior government officiaks at press conferences at the White House, Department of State, and Department of Justice to ask senior officials about the findings publicly released in the Italian Supreme Court's motivation report.

With all due, Strozzi, this story will fade into obscurity by later today. AFAIK CNN did not run the release of the Marasca/Bruno report at all, not on television, not on-line. The Clinton e-mail controversy, Aurora Borealis from space, the wars between Tom Brady and the NFL, and "Google's logos through the years" all got electron-time on CNN.COM. Not the Kercher murder.

Perhaps by the end of next week, 90% of anyone who is left following this will also go do something else. (As it is, please leave a forwarding address, particularly those who are owed cheques by the vaunted PR-machine from Seattle.)

"Italian guilters"? Aside from the uniquely Italian pasttime of dietrology, people digging under the obvious to tell friends over wine what is really-real about the last 8 years..... where are these guilters? There's Machiavelli and there's...... ah, er, ........... ah, lessee, well there's Machiavelli.

There is one Italian language blog/service that seems to cover this. Even Machiavelli claims to be unaware of it. After a couple of months of inactivity someone posted a note that the Marasca M.R. had been released and the poster wondered if anyone had any opinions. Crickets.

Machiavelli's claim is that American news interests are driving the Masonic agenda to corrupt the Italian judiciary. Well, that virus has now infected the sum total of the Italian media.... can anyone find one, just one, Italian language news outlet that could be confused with a Barbie Nadeau? The ones I have run through Google-Translate are filled with tales of incompetent investigators and predatory prosecutors. They now sound like FOA press releases. Even the Daily Mail has called Knox and Sollecito completely innocent.

Not one has mentioned that the Italian President is set to overturn the Marasca Section of ISC.

Here's a bold statement for you.... there are no Italian guilters. That phenomenon now is a uniquely English language thing driven by folk who refuse to post outside the tight confines of controled webservices. One guy specializes in death threats.

There are no Italian guilters, and aside from perhaps a file cabinet somewhere at 2201 C Street in the Foggy Bottom section of D.C. the State Department is done with this.
 
Last edited:
Clinton was pro forma thus woeful. Her daughter was about same age. 4 years out of general circulation? Ok with that to allow authentic process to play out?
Oh no n no.no

Clinton was pro forna....publicly. What you expect and need from a diplomat. She is balancing all of the issues including our relationship with an ally What she wasn't was a bull in a china closet. Trump didn't have those considerations. Personally, I think his only consideration was how many times he could appear on TV.

Don't you find it interesting that Trump actually likes Hillary and has said numerous times that she was a good SecState, but now says she was the worst ever?

Also, I think it's important to recognize that the SecState works at the pleasure of the President, that person is not the President.
 
It's all very vague. I've read quotes in the press like the following, which don't really say much:

Business magnate Donald Trump told CNN that Knox could "become a big star and somehow she can get some dividends out of this nightmare for herself." "The Apprentice" host didn't specify whether he'll personally help Knox in any celebrity deals, he did say that he's offered support to her family.
"I've been supporting the family and helping the family and I'll continue to help the family. They went through a lot; I just felt badly," Trump told CNN.

http://www.today.com/id/44787876/ns...dom-leaves-family-shackled-debt/#.Ve7k-RFVhBc

Exactly , I actually do believe that Trump donated to the defense fund. He wouldn't say that and risk the family saying he did nothing. But I expect the family was thankful for Trump standing up for them.
 
Ok.... I'm wrong. There have been six posts to the Italian webservice about the release of the Marasca report. Here they are, run through Chrome-Translate:

In addition to not have the solutions many cases we must also be taxpayers pay certain investigations.
That est modus in rebus. Not culprits, I think they went with a heavy hand, then I may be wrong eh.
was what I expected: there were no evidence of the presence of Amanda and Raffaele to the crime scene. we wanted at all costs to find a culprit to feed the public, Guedé was not sufficiently "media" and so what could be better than a nice pair of lovers, she came to America and with a reputation for predatory sexual? (Who have built our media, however, there was no need to give spice to the story). I only regret that the judges who condemned them will have no effect, in fact, maybe they will be promoted and will make a great career.
Pay surveys, the judges who did wrong and also the compensation millionaires due to the innocent who were thrown into prison and vilified for years.
The law is equal for all?
Sorry, but to me the reasons for the final absolution seem very close relatives of the old acquittal for lack of evidence or perhaps I am wrong? And should still be compensated for wrongful imprisonment? Mine is just a question, but years ago if someone who had spent years in jail was later acquitted for lack of evidence, however, had the right to compensation for wrongful imprisonment? I turn to the lawyers present in the forum, thanks.
The judgment of the court is acceptable in principle but I find that the same can not quite be called out: the motives by which canceled the first appeal process came heavily on the merits of the judgment (according to many, and in difficult times); according to the judgment of the appeals process - IMHO fallacious - is the result of that terrible pronouncement. Kid
That's it.

My guess is that by the end of next week, no one in Italy, other than serious and talented dietrologists, will even remember what this was all about.
 
Machiavelli - the blame game is starting. My Italian is rusty, but now it seems like the police are blaming the prosecutors for the mess of the last 8 years!? Can you help with the translation of this piece?

http://www.giornaledellumbria.it/article/article231054.html

"I recall - says D'Accio - that our investigators have always worked under the direction of the judiciary and not independently. The 80 the Criminal Procedure Code was reformed by so many and such changes as to make a mess, but the dominus of the investigation is the prosecutor who delegates the judicial police. They must say whether mistakes were made in the exercise of the delegation and he who had to check was not done. We have to say and prove that mistakes have been made or specific technical assessments wrong. The Meredith case proves, if ever proof were needed, that this code needs to be reformed, as long as we ask Sap ".
 
I wonder how Machiavelli reconciles the Supreme Court stating that Knox and Sollecito "should have been excluded from having participated in the murder'' given the evidence!

A premise: I really don't think I have to "reconcile" things in a paper written by Mad Hatter and March Hare. The motivations is a joke, completely barmy and inconsistent, it cannot be reconciled with reality, law or with itself.

The SC 5th section anyway does not state what you claim. It seems you are twisting and misquoting. It seems you are quoting § 9.4 at p.45, which itself says something different. What the para says is that there is "one element (of evidence)" of "sure relevance" which points "in the direction" of "excluding the physical participation to the murder of Knox" even in the event that she was present on the murder scene when Meredith was killed. In fact, the following paragraph 9.4.1 the report goes on (still p.45) pointing out that it is a "proven fact" that Amanda Knox was present in the house where the murder took place at the time when Meredith was killed.

Incidental observation. The above reasoning is in fact nothing more than one of the most common pro-Knoxes' pseudo-scientific mantras (the idea that Knox could not be the killer because no DNA of her was found in the room). The Bruno-Marasca is obviously self- contradictory here, insofar as it had just stated that SC court should not assess the merits (criticizes Chieffi panel for doing this, p. 22), and states that courts should not be held competent of making direct assessment in scientific matters (§ 7.); and yet, what they do is making assessment in the merits, and making up conclusions on forensic matters on their own pseudo-scientific reasoning!

All this is just part of a comical pattern of inconsistency. But let's put aside this, and just look at what the report says.
What it says, at p. 45 is that it is an absolutely proven fact Knox was inside the apartment where the murder was committed at the time when Meredith was killed. It also says Knox's statements manifestly contain "incongruenze e mendacio" (inconsistencies and lies) (p.47.).
The report also states that it is an "irrefutable fact" that Knox is guilty of committing calunnia on malicious grounds (p.25), repeats again that this is a strong element of suspicion against Knox (p.46), and in § 2. states again that her guilt of calunnia is obvious, that the calunnia conviction would stand in any event, even alleged violations of human rights would be irrelevant, because it is obvious that she wrote her written memoirs voluntarily (p.20).

And also, the report says (p.26) that another fact to be hold as undisputable is that Guede committed the murder together with other people, they state this in §4.2 (p.25), and then emphasize this in the following paragraph (p.26) motivating how a lone-perpetrator scenario would make no sense ("elements exclude that Guede could have acted alone").
 
Last edited:
I've just read every news report on the matter known to Google. Guess how many of them carry the headline, "Kercher case bombshell: Foxy Knoxy was there that night, rules Italy's top court".
 
I've just read every news report on the matter known to Google. Guess how many of them carry the headline, "Kercher case bombshell: Foxy Knoxy was there that night, rules Italy's top court".

I even checked a German paper (google translate is pretty good at German actually) and it proclaimed glaring weaknesses and no evidence. . . . .
 
Yeah, those false statements are number 4) and 6). That's what you're referring to, right?

Did we expect any better from the same court that inexplicably overturned Hellmann?

The Hellmann motivation is now the final word on the case (that is, two love birds maliciously persecuted by evil Mignini and his police cronies). The rest are to be forgotten.

Hellmann motivation has been demolished with ironclad law arguments and doesn't exist by any jurisdiction, except on the part where it finds Knox guilty of calunnia. Hellmann was not overturned, it was annulled; the grounds for this were fully explained, and I had anticipated that.
The Chieffi verdict and the verdict on Rudy Guede are definitive findings and by now they contain definitive truths on the case.
 
Last edited:
I even checked a German paper (google translate is pretty good at German actually) and it proclaimed glaring weaknesses and no evidence. . . . .

As long as you don't even read yourself what court documents actually say...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom