Ed clintonemails.com: Who is Eric Hoteham?

[Ziggurat]

I am glad to see you admit your claim that Rice provided emails for archiving is false.

Not so. She provided them for archiving the moment they were generated, because she used the State Dept. email system like she was supposed to. So they were automatically archived, and no "turning over" was ever required.

 

[Ziggurat]

So when HRC argues that her emails were archived in the system because she was in the habit of sending them to other government employees with .gov email addresses, you must agree.

No, I don't have to agree. Particularly since at least one other state dept. employee (Abedin) was using Hillary's email server for her own account as well, meaning that there were State Dept. emails Hillary sent and received which never went to any .gov address.

 

[The Big Dog]

People like Zig, who makes the exact argument that you are calling Hillary's spin ? I think it's adorable, too.

Utterly false. Rice ONLY used the dot.gov system. Hillary only used her own cowboy server.

This is so fundamental a difference I am shocked you bother repeating Hillary's silly spin.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Not so. She provided them for archiving the moment they were generated, because she used the State Dept. email system like she was supposed to. So they were automatically archived, and no "turning over" was ever required.

Is that how that works ?

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/hillary-clinton-email-state-department-archiving-emails-116062

After a week of deflecting questions about how emails were handled during Clinton’s tenure as secretary of state, the agency finally acknowledged that the email traffic of other senior officials was not automatically or routinely archived.

It either works that way for both clinton and rice, or neither.

No, I don't have to agree. Particularly since at least one other state dept. employee (Abedin) was using Hillary's email server for her own account as well, meaning that there were State Dept. emails Hillary sent and received which never went to any .gov address.

Yes, that's possible she could have sent private emails to Abedin that were state department business, that should have been archived.

Or she could have just spoken with her in person and you would never know.
Or she could have just called her and you would never know.
Or she could have just used written her a note, and you would never know.
Or she could have just used gmail, and you would never know.

That's pretty weak sauce to try to hang the label of "incompetence" on the possibility she may have sent an email to Abedin outside of her .gov address.

 

[Ziggurat]

Is that how that works ?

That's how it's supposed to work.

Rice did what she was supposed to do. Clinton did not. The failure of State's IT department to do what they were supposed to do does not condemn Rice, nor does it absolve Clinton.

Yes, that's possible she could have sent private emails to Abedin that were state department business, that should have been archived.

Possible? No, elvis, it's not a possibility, it's a certainty.

Your excuses are getting more desperate and pathetic.

 

[wareyin]

Is that how that works ?

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/hillary-clinton-email-state-department-archiving-emails-116062

After a week of deflecting questions about how emails were handled during Clinton’s tenure as secretary of state, the agency finally acknowledged that the email traffic of other senior officials was not automatically or routinely archived.

It either works that way for both clinton and rice, or neither.

And this makes the double standard at play obvious, doesn't it? Rice takes no steps to archive her emails, yet somehow that is providing her emails. Clinton keeps records of all emails, claims to have sent them to a .gov address, and turns them over after being asked for archiving, yet that is nefariously not archiving, for which there is no reason that isn't suspicious.

Yes, that's possible she could have sent private emails to Abedin that were state department business, that should have been archived.

Or she could have just spoken with her in person and you would never know.
Or she could have just called her and you would never know.
Or she could have just used written her a note, and you would never know.
Or she could have just used gmail, and you would never know.

That's pretty weak sauce to try to hang the label of "incompetence" on the possibility she may have sent an email to Abedin outside of her .gov address.

When all the Clinton bashers have is conjecture, suspicion, and hyperbole, they have to rely on weak sauce.

 

[davefoc]

And this makes the double standard at play obvious, doesn't it? Rice takes no steps to archive her emails, yet somehow that is providing her emails. Clinton keeps records of all emails, claims to have sent them to a .gov address, and turns them over after being asked for archiving, yet that is nefariously not archiving, for which there is no reason that isn't suspicious....

Part of this is a stretch. Rice used the official email servers and her email was archived. Clinton didn't use the official email server and thereby avoided having her emails archived. She made no effort to have her emails archived until she was forced to.

Clinton's defense, as I understand it, is that emails that she sent to State Department employees were archived because all the email on the official servers was archived. However none of Clinton's emails to people outside the system including people in the State Department that were using her server and members of foreign governments were archived until Clinton was forced to release her emails to the State Department.

Have I got something wrong here? Are you saying that Clinton CC'd or otherwise transferred every email that she wrote as part of her State Department job to the State Department before she was forced to?

 

[Mike!]

Part of this is a stretch. Rice used the official email servers and her email was archived. Clinton didn't use the official email server and thereby avoided having her emails archived. She made no effort to have her emails archived until she was forced to.

Clinton's defense, as I understand it, is that emails that she sent to State Department employees were archived because all the email on the official servers was archived. However none of Clinton's emails to people outside the system including people in the State Department that were using her server and members of foreign governments were archived until Clinton was forced to release her emails to the State Department.

Have I got something wrong here? Are you saying that Clinton CC'd or otherwise transferred every email that she wrote as part of her State Department job to the State Department before she was forced to?

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to ask if you have proof she didn't CC everything.

 

[The Big Dog]

And this makes the double standard at play obvious, doesn't it? Rice takes no steps to archive her emails, yet somehow that is providing her emails. Clinton keeps records of all emails, claims to have sent them to a .gov address, and turns them over after being asked for archiving, yet that is nefariously not archiving, for which there is no reason that isn't suspicious..

How dare Condi use the official government system!

First Hillary's emails were archived and then they were not archived and then Clinton is a hero for saving less than half of her emails except for those she destroyed, like the ones she got from Clinton Family foundation scumbag Sid Blumenthal.

I am guessing the weak sauce is the kool aid being served by Hillary's camp.

 

[wareyin]

Part of this is a stretch. Rice used the official email servers and her email was archived. Clinton didn't use the official email server and thereby avoided having her emails archived. She made no effort to have her emails archived until she was forced to.

Rice made no effort to have her emails archived. Clinton kept a record of her emails (which is what archiving is), which she did turn over to the State Department. It is sad to see someone swayed by the Republican innuendos, but the facts are plain: Powell made no effort to archive his emails, and used personal emails to communicate as Secretary of State. Rice made no effort to archive her emails. Clinton, following the policy of the only 2 prior SoS's to use email, did not turn over her email records. Yet, for some reason (cough, Republican innuendo, cough), it is suspicious that Clinton didn't do more than her predecessors to archive her emails.

Clinton's defense, as I understand it, is that emails that she sent to State Department employees were archived because all the email on the official servers was archived. However none of Clinton's emails to people outside the system including people in the State Department that were using her server and members of foreign governments were archived until Clinton was forced to release her emails to the State Department.

Have I got something wrong here? Are you saying that Clinton CC'd or otherwise transferred every email that she wrote as part of her State Department job to the State Department before she was forced to?

It's a good thing that Powell didn't use his personal email to communicate with American officials and ambassadors and foreign leaders. Oh, wait, he did? Of course, because his last name isn't Clinton, there is no reason to be suspicious of that.

 

[The Big Dog]

Man, even the Clinton administration admits that what she did was stupid, but we actually have people on a Skeptics site claiming that she went above and beyond in keeping everyone of emails segregated from searching until nearly two years after she retired?

All those FOIA requests and Subpoenas that sought those emails from 2009 through 2014?

Hillary was "archiving" them on the server next to Bill's old stack of penthouses in the basement rumpus room.

You are welcome.

Bwhahaha!

 

[Ziggurat]

Rice made no effort to have her emails archived.

Sure she did: she made an effort to use the State dept. email system. Which is what she was supposed to do. She did it correctly.

Clinton kept a record of her emails (which is what archiving is), which she did turn over to the State Department.

But she wasn't supposed to use her own personal server to begin with, she wasn't allowed to send or received classified emails on that system but she did anyways, and she turned over records long after she was supposed to, and at every stage she's failed to tell the truth about it.

Rice made no effort to archive her emails.

It wasn't her responsibility to archive her official state department email account, it was State's responsibility. That's one of the benefits of doing things right from the start: by using the official email account, you don't need to go to extra lengths to make up for having done things wrong to begin with.

Of course, because his last name isn't Clinton, there is no reason to be suspicious of that.

Powell isn't running for president. He also wasn't the recipient of millions of dollars in foreign donations while Secretary of State. Do you honestly not understand why this might make a legitimate difference in the level of scrutiny they receive?

 

[WildCat]

Why do people keep bringing up this clearly fallacious argument from incredulity ?

That's not an argument from incredulity, it's pretty much the only excuse Clinton could have. If she expected to send or receive classified information via email she had no business exclusively using her own unsecured server.

 

[Ziggurat]

Have I got something wrong here? Are you saying that Clinton CC'd or otherwise transferred every email that she wrote as part of her State Department job to the State Department before she was forced to?

Clinton has claimed that emails sent to State Department addresses were already being captured and archived by State. Which is partly true, but there are several problems with this line of defense. First, not all her emails were being captured in this manner (emails between her and Abedin, who also had an account on Clinton's server, would not be). Second, it frustrates FOIA because State would have to search a large number of email accounts, rather than just Clinton's, in order to respond to FOIA requests about Clinton emails. And that doesn't even touch upon security issues.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

That's not an argument from incredulity, it's pretty much the only excuse Clinton could have. If she expected to send or receive classified information via email she had no business exclusively using her own unsecured server.

It is. Posters are incredulous she could have been SoS without having an secure email account to send and receive classified emails.

 

[Ziggurat]

There is no reason to believe she ever expected to do more than the most mundane tasks over email.

Again, you present a statement as if it's a defense, but it isn't. Regardless of what she expected to do with her email account, the fact remains that she did handle classified information with that account, in clear violation of the rules.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Sure she did: she made an effort to use the State dept. email system. Which is what she was supposed to do. She did it correctly.

But she wasn't supposed to use her own personal server to begin with,

Supposed to use is wrong. If she was supposed to use a state.gov address, she wouldn't have been allowed to user a different email.

she wasn't allowed to send or received classified emails on that system but she did anyways,

Again, you have ignored the fact that she can't control what people send her. The email with classified information would have been sent to her on her state.gov email just the same.

and she turned over records long after she was supposed to, and at every stage she's failed to tell the truth about it.

What truths didn't she tell ?

It wasn't her responsibility to archive her official state department email account, it was State's responsibility. That's one of the benefits of doing things right from the start: by using the official email account, you don't need to go to extra lengths to make up for having done things wrong to begin with.

That's wrong. Employees, even senior officials, are expected to print out emails that were supposed to have been archived. This was covered earlier in the thread.

Powell isn't running for president. He also wasn't the recipient of millions of dollars in foreign donations while Secretary of State. Do you honestly not understand why this might make a legitimate difference in the level of scrutiny they receive?

I don't see why if the importance is what happened while they were SoS.

 

[The Big Dog]

That's wrong. Employees, even senior officials, are expected to print out emails that were supposed to have been archived. This was covered earlier in the thread.
.

Oh Really? How did Hillary do on this front? She print out that stuff in a timely manner so it would be available for FOIA responses and subpoenas from 2009 through 2014?

 

[Ziggurat]

Supposed to use is wrong. If she was supposed to use a state.gov address, she wouldn't have been allowed to user a different email.

Allowed by whom? Who do you imagine was actually going to stop her from breaking policy?

Again, you have ignored the fact that she can't control what people send her.

But she can control what happens next. She did not take appropriate action in response to receiving classified email on an unclassified network.

What truths didn't she tell ?

Really? You still don't know? Damn, elvis, you're behind the times.

She lied about why she set up the server. She claimed it was because she didn't want to carry multiple devices, but in fact she did carry multiple devices. She claimed to have used only one address while at State, but used multiple addresses. She claimed she never sent or received classified information. When classified emails were found, her defense was that it wasn't classified when it was sent. When emails were found with info that was classified at the time it was sent, she resorted to claiming that they weren't marked classified. That last line of "defense" might be true, but it's not good enough, and it's also quite a retreat from her original claims.

I don't see why if the importance is what happened while they were SoS.

Of course you don't see why. You'd have to admit the one thing you can't stand to admit.

 

[davefoc]

Rice made no effort to have her emails archived. Clinton kept a record of her emails (which is what archiving is), which she did turn over to the State Department. It is sad to see someone swayed by the Republican innuendos, but the facts are plain: Powell made no effort to archive his emails, and used personal emails to communicate as Secretary of State. Rice made no effort to archive her emails. Clinton, following the policy of the only 2 prior SoS's to use email, did not turn over her email records. Yet, for some reason (cough, Republican innuendo, cough), it is suspicious that Clinton didn't do more than her predecessors to archive her emails.



It's a good thing that Powell didn't use his personal email to communicate with American officials and ambassadors and foreign leaders. Oh, wait, he did? Of course, because his last name isn't Clinton, there is no reason to be suspicious of that.

Your reference to Rice is just stupid. Rice didn't go outside the system. She had no need to do special things to archive her emails. Apparently in a part of this thread that I missed there is a claim made the people are supposed to print out their emails and provide them to somebody for archival purposes? That strikes me as strange, but OK, so neither Rice nor Clinton complied with this requirement? Did anybody comply with this requirement? And so what. The problem here is that Clinton chose to use her own server and thereby bypass the standard mechanisms for archiving her emails. The onus was on her to ensure that her emails were being transferred to the State Department for archiving.

I will say that Clinton's failure to provide emails for archiving in a timely way probably would not be all that problematic an issue for her if that was her only problem here. There are articles on the internet discussing the nuances of whether she broke the law or not. (I think it's a stretch to suggest she didn't). But the issue is murky enough that probably just the fact that she did provide them eventually would be enough to put this issue to rest for most of the electorate and I doubt that there would have been any follow up legal problems for Clinton on this.

Much more problematic for Clinton, if true, are the issues concerning her handling of classified material. I am amazed that Clinton didn't realize that people might communicate sensitive and potentially classified material to her without realizing that she was using an unsecured email server. And apparently when Clinton did receive material likely to be classified she didn't do anything about it.

For me, all the miscellaneous issues here about the problems with Clinton using a personal email server make it look like she acted stupidly. If Clinton wasn't attempting to hide her communications she had nothing to gain from this scheme and a lot to lose. Taking a gamble in which there is nothing to gain and a lot to lose is almost a definition of incompetent. But if you assume that Clinton was indeed engaging in nefarious, potentially illegal schemes then it is hard to imagine how her use of the private server was not an act of phenomenal stupidity. She mixed private communications and SoS communications in a way that almost guaranteed that some of her private communications would be discovered.

Clearly a lot of the defense of Clinton's actions in this thread are an attempt to put the best possible face on what she did. But even if one accepts some of this spin as a plausible defense, the fact that she used a private server in the first place suggests some very bad judgment on Clinton's part and a reliance by her on advisers that aren't all that bright as well.