Treating Other People With Respect

"A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 71% of American Adults think political correctness is a problem in America today, while only 18% disagree. Ten percent (10%) are undecided."
- link

I'm sure people can point out all the flaws with that survey, aside from the obvious one that it was conducted by supposedly a right-leaning organization.
 
In what way does this term other the illegal immigrants any more than, say, "criminal"/"felon"/"suspect" would other the criminals/felons/suspects?
It's not that it others illegal immigrants, it's that it others all immigrants.

I mean, we still have the term "illegal immigrants", right?
 
It's not that it others illegal immigrants, it's that it others all immigrants.

I mean, we still have the term "illegal immigrants", right?

With due respect, this post alienates those who distinguish verbs from other parts of speech.
 
I didn't quote that. My post, the post you said you were responding to, was referring specifically about the people who entered the country legally. You misread the discussion.


But that is the part to which my point was directed and connected. Your comment tied into rather clearly, it seemed to me. And I note that you've neither answered that question posed by phiwum nor directly addressed my question.
 
With due respect, this post alienates those who distinguish verbs from other parts of speech.
Verbing weirds language.

But tough luck, because "othering" is totally a thing. It's telling that the only thing you can muster to say about it is to criticise the grammar.
 
It's not that it others illegal immigrants, it's that it others all immigrants.

How?

I mean, we still have the term "illegal immigrants", right?

I said I don't understand the aversion to use either one. I'm totally okay with either one being used, I just don't understand how it's othering. Is it because alien also means space alien?
 
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How?

I said I don't understand the aversion to use either one. I'm totally okay with either one being used, I just don't understand how it's othering. Is it because alien also means space alien?
It means "Not one of Us - one of Them".

I really can't grasp how you can possibly not understand this. I suggest that you do some more research on othering. Here's a nice convenient 5-part primer, in handy visual format. It explains what othering is, why it is bad, and what can be done about it. I strongly recommend you read the whole thing.

Part 1
Part 2 (notice in this panel, "alien" is used as a synonym for "abnormal")
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
 
It means "Not one of Us - one of Them".

So, basically just like calling a criminal criminal, felon felon and suspect suspect, as I and another poster mentioned earlier. You cannot not other - if this is your usage of the word here - people you specifically want to denote are different from the general group. In fact going by your meaning, "you" is othering, because it's not us. Also, I don't think you're using "othering" as it's meant to be used.

I really can't grasp how you can possibly not understand this.

That's perhaps because you haven't explained it.

I suggest that you do some more research on othering.

I know what othering is. You keep repeating that as if you're the only one here knowing what it is.
 
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If you know what othering is, then how can you not understand why calling someone an alien is bad?

Because you have not explained why it is bad. Can you make a connected logical argument for your claim? Right now you've merely stated it's othering and it's bad. If "Not one of Us - one of Them" is your sole criteria for othering which makes "illegal alien" bad, then "undocumented migrant/worker" is just as bad, because it fills the exact same criteria. So it must be something else that makes it bad. Something you've not explained.

In your previous post you said "notice in this panel, "alien" is used as a synonym for "abnormal" - so is that it, alien is a synonym for strange? Then I would think "stranger" is a problematic word too.

ETA: btw, it's "illegal alien", not just "alien". Nobody's calling (or at least proposing to call in this thread) illegal aliens just 'aliens'. Context matters.
 
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Because you have not explained why it is bad. Can you make a connected logical argument for your claim? Right now you've merely stated it's othering and it's bad. If "Not one of Us - one of Them" is your sole criteria for othering which makes "illegal alien" bad, then "undocumented migrant/worker" is just as bad, because it fills the exact same criteria. So it must be something else that makes it bad. Something you've not explained.

In your previous post you said "notice in this panel, "alien" is used as a synonym for "abnormal" - so is that it, alien is a synonym for strange? Then I would think "stranger" is a problematic word too.

ETA: btw, it's "illegal alien", not just "alien". Nobody's calling (or at least proposing to call in this thread) illegal aliens just 'aliens'. Context matters.

Did you read the five comics I linked? They explain why othering is bad much better than I possibly could.
 
Did you read the five comics I linked? They explain why othering is bad much better than I possibly could.

The question is not why othering is bad. The question is why one word is othering and in your opinion its synonym is not. You've merely claimed that some words are othering, without any form of explanation.

Speaking of which, my biggest objection against how political correctness works in practice is that it appears to be mainly a way TO other people: follow our great new word, discard the old ones, or you will be socially isolated, ostracised... othered. Of course it's othering of bad people, not of victimised groups. You can tell they're bad people because they use the wrong words for the same things.
 
Verbing weirds language.

But tough luck, because "othering" is totally a thing. It's telling that the only thing you can muster to say about it is to criticise the grammar.

Calling something "totally a thing" only serves to further alienate me.

As far as "all I can muster," I don't think you and I were in the midst of an argument. I haven't expressed any opinion on your claim. For what it's worth, I don't think "alien" is necessarily a bad word to use. I tend to have little patience for those who take offense at a word whose history and literal meaning are innocuous.

But it's not a word I use and I don't think it's a fight worth having.

Tiresome and overused cliches like, "it's a thing," used to avoid actual self- expression, on the other hand... That's a battle I'd fight.
 
Did you read the five comics I linked? They explain why othering is bad much better than I possibly could.

No, not yet, but as Lorentz said, I don't need convincing othering is bad. I need convincing that the usage of "illegal alien" is othering, or - depending on your usage of 'othering' - that it is somehow more othering/bad than any of the other examples given.
 
I wonder whether "illegal alien" really is synonymous with "illegal immigrant".

An immigrant is one who intends to reside in a country, no? An alien need not intend to reside in the country. One who visits the country without meeting the requirements to do so is arguably an illegal[1] alien, but not an illegal immigrant.

Now, that said, by and large, we are more concerned with immigrants who have no right to be here than with non-immigrant aliens (foreigners, if you prefer). For that reason, among others, I wouldn't personally insist that "illegal alien" is the sole legitimate term.

[1] Or an undocumented alien, but I'm not sure whether "undocumented" really captures the issue we're discussing.
 
But that is the part to which my point was directed and connected. Your comment tied into rather clearly, it seemed to me.

Not connected in the slightest. You are not responding to my post. Maybe some straw man you've constructed.

And you are not one to talk about not answering questions.
 
If I were one of the others, I'd find the term more offensive than alien.

With "illegal alien", it mightn't be a floral noun, but it does describe what the person actually is. It doesn't confer anything than the status of being an illegal alien in a country.

"Other" implies something different from the main group.

"It's one of those other kids, quick hide."

"Who are these other people you've invited for dinner tonight?"

One of these things is not like the other.

Next time someone dreams up an idiot term, they should maybe ask the other person how offensive they find it.

One funny point, Arth's favourite dictionary, Merriam-Webster lists this description for "other" as point 5.

disturbingly or threateningly different
 
No, not yet, but as Lorentz said, I don't need convincing othering is bad. I need convincing that the usage of "illegal alien" is othering, or - depending on your usage of 'othering' - that it is somehow more othering/bad than any of the other examples given.
To me, the connection is blatantly, painfully obvious. I really don't understand how you could possibly believe that it isn't. No, honestly, I really don't.

For lack of other apparent common referents, I am forced to go to pop culture for an example. In the movie Alien, the eponymous Alien isn't some nice guy who trims the bushes. It's a monstrous, murderous creature that kills as many people as it can just because it enjoys that sort of thing. They could have called the monster "Xenomorph", or "Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal", or something else, but that wouldn't have conveyed the sense of weirdness, the sense of differentness, or the sense of dangerousness that the writers wanted for their monster. No - for that, they had to go with Alien - a word that, above all else, conveys that this thing is not like anything else that we are familiar or comfortable with, or feel safe around.

In short, I have to say - with all possible respect - that if you do not understand why calling a person an "alien" is a method of othering them, then despite your claim you do not understand what othering is.

It may once have been true that the word "alien", like the word "retarded", could be used non-perjoratively, but it's been at least forty years since that was true. Some day it may be true that the word "immigrant" is similarly changed, but until then it is a more acceptable way of describing people than calling them an "alien" is.
 

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