Treating Other People With Respect

[Upchurch]

I may have missed it, but is "person of size" a term that is actually used in the real world?

If sir drinks-a-lot is to be believed, airlines refer to "passenger of size"

 

[arthwollipot]

If sir drinks-a-lot is to be believed, airlines refer to "passenger of size"

Yes, but I'd like verification for that.

 

[surreptitious57]

I refer to fat people as fat. This could be deemed offensive but only because the word can be employed as both
a derogatory adjective and a non derogatory one. Now I do not use it as a term of abuse so its use is perfectly
legitimate. There might be fat people who do not like being referred to in that way. They are perfectly entitled
to call themselves something else instead. While I am open to the idea of modifying my language so as not to
cause offence I refuse to do so where there is no valid reason. Now one might argue that my own justification
for using a particular term does not over ride someone elses wish not to be described that way. Though this is
completely false as I should have the freedom to say whatever I want as long as I am also prepared to accept
responsibility for it as well and I do. I do not deliberately seek to offend any one but neither shall I modify my
language to avoid the possibility of doing so. Offence is something one chooses and it is perfectly possible not
to be offended. I myself refuse to be offended by anything any one says. And I push it to its absolute limit for
that is the only way. Now some times being human interferes with this but over time that can be adjusted for

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

Er, you do realize that this is a very silly question?

If food must be earned, why is starvation free?

If vehicles must be earned, why is walking free?

And so on. Not that I necessarily agree with "respect must be earned" -- not when the "respect" we're talking about is common decency rather than honor -- but your question missed the mark.

I disagree, for Beerina's reason.

You can be polite to people without respecting them one iota.

Disrespect is not the lack of respect, it is not equivalent to starvation or owning a car. Disrespect is active, just as respect is. Two extremes of behavior, with a middle ground-------that often seems ignored by those who see political correctness everywhere.

 

[Corsair 115]

What I'm questioning is, given that you know how a person prefers to be referred to, do you refer to them with that term?

My answer would be that it depends. It's a case-by-case basis, passed through my own filter of what seems reasonable and what seems ridiculous.

If a black person says to me they'd rather be addressed as an African-American, I'd probably do so, even though I find the former term perfectly reasonable (and less of a mouthful in terms of syllables). If an overweight person says to me they want to be addressed as a person of size, I'm less inclined to do so, as the latter term strikes me as silly and a way to sugarcoat a fact the person seems unwilling to face. If a person asked me to address them as a vampire because they think of themselves as one, I'm not going to do it because it's flat-out ridiculous.

 

[TeapotCavalry]

If sir drinks-a-lot is to be believed, airlines refer to "passenger of size"

Yes, but I'd like verification for that.

Google "passenger of size".
Some apparently refer to them as "customer of size"
http://www.airfarewatchdog.com/blog/13060972/airline-customer-of-size-policies.html
https://www.southwest.com/html/customer-service/extra-seat/?clk=GFOOTER-CUSTOMER-COS

 

[TeapotCavalry]

Disrespect is not the lack of respect, it is not equivalent to starvation or owning a car. Disrespect is active, just as respect is. Two extremes of behavior, with a middle ground-------that often seems ignored by those who see political correctness everywhere.

I think it was the exact opposite what happened in this thread. [ETA: Some] people who think PC is just politeness were thinking lack of respect means disrespect.

 

[Upchurch]

My answer would be that it depends. It's a case-by-case basis, passed through my own filter of what seems reasonable and what seems ridiculous.

That's really the follow-up question. Do you want to be polite to overweight and obese people?

 

[Upchurch]

I think it was the exact opposite what happened in this thread. [ETA: Some] people who think PC is just politeness were thinking lack of respect means disrespect.

That's not unreasonable since impolite and disrespectful are synonyms. Just as every interaction between two people is an active process. What is the middle ground between politeness and impoliteness?

Even answering a simple question with a simple "yes" or "no" is polite as it would be rude to intentionally ignore the question.

 

[phiwum]

I disagree, for Beerina's reason.

Disrespect is not the lack of respect, it is not equivalent to starvation or owning a car. Disrespect is active, just as respect is. Two extremes of behavior, with a middle ground-------that often seems ignored by those who see political correctness everywhere.

Yes, if disrespect is not the mere negation of respect, the question is less silly, but the implication behind it (the fact that one extreme requires earning suggests that the other extreme is similar) is still implausible.

For slaves, considerate treatment must be earned while beatings are free (depending, of course, on the temperament of the owner).

That said, re-reading your question and my reply suggests that I was too harsh. It is obvious that, in this thread, "respect" has several different meanings, and much of the disagreement is merely semantic. (The same applies to "disrespect".) We would do well to explicitly state what we mean while not pretending that our meaning is the single "correct" meaning.

 

[rwguinn]

Yes, if disrespect is not the mere negation of respect, the question is less silly, but the implication behind it (the fact that one extreme requires earning suggests that the other extreme is similar) is still implausible.

For slaves, considerate treatment must be earned while beatings are free (depending, of course, on the temperament of the owner).

That said, re-reading your question and my reply suggests that I was too harsh. It is obvious that, in this thread, "respect" has several different meanings, and much of the disagreement is merely semantic. (The same applies to "disrespect".) We would do well to explicitly state what we mean while not pretending that our meaning is the single "correct" meaning.

And yet more PC--redefining a word, rejecting other definitions, and directing the ensuing discussion adhere to that definition.
I have seen only two actual definitions of disrespect, here--and active process, and the PC "Lack of respect"

 

[skeptichaggis]

O.k,sometimes political correctness goes too far. I come from a travelling community and the simple fact is when(in Britain)travellers move into a area the crime rate goes up. Housbreakings,car theft,assaults rates all go up.

Yet,in the last decade and half or so everyone,the police,councils,social services etc pretends this is not because travellers are prone to robbing etc the communities they move into. Except the victims of the crimes-they get ignored in the name of "diversity"or whatever.

When I was young(and I'm only 36)we did not like or respect the judicial system-but we feared it. Now if a traveller is charged with assault-provided the victim isn't dead/crippled-all they have to claim is that they were racial abused. They are then shown undue leniency. No one questions the claim.

The last thing I want is a return to the bad days which are not long ago. Back then crimes against travellers were not investigated,police brutality existed etc but the pendulum has swung too far the other way.

A few years ago one of my(very numerous) extended family was driving out of a camp in Aberdeenshire. A police car stopped him and found stolen goods in the back of his van,first his lawyer argued a racist bias on part of the police led him to be stopped in the first place then that the police reffered to him as a "tinker".
He,despite over 40 previous convictions,got a suspended sentence. Its hard not to think political correctness was involved somewhere.

Political correctness is not necessarily a good thing,it can go too far.

 

[phiwum]

And yet more PC--redefining a word, rejecting other definitions, and directing the ensuing discussion adhere to that definition.
I have seen only two actual definitions of disrespect, here--and active process, and the PC "Lack of respect"

Acknowledging that the word "respect" means everything from mere courtesy and consideration to honor and suggesting that we should be explicit in how we are using the term is not PC redefinition.

Your response is a knee-jerk reaction that has nothing much to do with what I said. For some unknown reason, you think that I am a PC advocate, and so you react as if I am the enemy. In doing so, you feign ignorance of the fact that words have several meanings and being explicit in a conversation minimizes misunderstandings. You also (bizarrely) pretend that I have suggested there is only one right meaning for each word, more or less the precise opposite of what I actually wrote.

 

[TeapotCavalry]

That's not unreasonable since impolite and disrespectful are synonyms.

Them being synonyms doesn't mean they're interchangeable in every context, or indeed in this context.

Just as every interaction between two people is an active process.

Having respect or having disrespect for someone is not an interaction, it's essentially a belief (regarding their social worth) one holds about another. Someone mentioned earlier that having respect might be something completely different from being respectful, and you can have one without the other. The latter would describe the interaction, the former would describe someone's value judgement.

What is the middle ground between politeness and impoliteness?

I don't know and this is a kind of an equivocation fallacy. If I replace every word in your post with synonyms, it won't have the same meaning any more. Your synonym argument is not apt.

Even answering a simple question with a simple "yes" or "no" is polite as it would be rude to intentionally ignore the question.

Same as above. Politeness is not respect, even if impoliteness comes up as a synonym with disrespectful.

 

[DavidJames]

I refer to fat people as fat. This could be deemed offensive but only because the word can be employed as both
a derogatory adjective and a non derogatory one. Now I do not use it as a term of abuse so its use is perfectly
legitimate. There might be fat people who do not like being referred to in that way. They are perfectly entitled
to call themselves something else instead. While I am open to the idea of modifying my language so as not to
cause offence I refuse to do so where there is no valid reason. Now one might argue that my own justification
for using a particular term does not over ride someone elses wish not to be described that way. Though this is
completely false as I should have the freedom to say whatever I want as long as I am also prepared to accept
responsibility for it as well and I do. I do not deliberately seek to offend any one but neither shall I modify my
language to avoid the possibility of doing so. Offence is something one chooses and it is perfectly possible not
to be offended. I myself refuse to be offended by anything any one says. And I push it to its absolute limit for
that is the only way. Now some times being human interferes with this but over time that can be adjusted for

Of course we can say pretty much whatever we want. Doesn't mean we have to. We have every right to be an ass. Me, I care about how others feel more than exercising my right to offend.

 

[Upchurch]

Them being synonyms doesn't mean they're interchangeable in every context, or indeed in this context.

And here, I think, is one of the disconnects in this thread. The OP refers to treating people with respect, not having respect for other people. The context of this thread is the meaning of respect that is the synonym of politeness.

All the talk of having respect or earning respect is a non-sequitur.

 

[Cain]

I just stumbled across this in the "Miss Manners" section of the Washington Post. A woman asks how she can politely exit a dinner party.

GENTLE READER: One would be to socialize with hosts who know that after-dinner coffee is properly served in the living room, thus getting everyone up from the table and halfway to the door, while preventing a difficult exodus from the dining table.

Another is to train your husband to stand up when you thank your hosts.

This is not the first time I've heard the expression "husband training," which is such a demeaning expression. Maybe before leaving you should ask your husband if he "needs to go potty."

 

[Corsair 115]

That's really the follow-up question. Do you want to be polite to overweight and obese people?

Are you asking do I go out of my way to draw attention to someone's physical characteristics, i.e. weight in this instance? No, I do not. I am not in the habit of saying to someone that they're fat or overweight or what have you.

 

[The Atheist]

O.k,sometimes political correctness goes too far. I come from a travelling community and the simple fact is when(in Britain)travellers move into a area the crime rate goes up. Housbreakings,car theft,assaults rates all go up.

Yet,in the last decade and half or so everyone,the police,councils,social services etc pretends this is not because travellers are prone to robbing etc the communities they move into. Except the victims of the crimes-they get ignored in the name of "diversity"or whatever.

When I was young(and I'm only 36)we did not like or respect the judicial system-but we feared it. Now if a traveller is charged with assault-provided the victim isn't dead/crippled-all they have to claim is that they were racial abused. They are then shown undue leniency. No one questions the claim.

The last thing I want is a return to the bad days which are not long ago. Back then crimes against travellers were not investigated,police brutality existed etc but the pendulum has swung too far the other way.

A few years ago one of my(very numerous) extended family was driving out of a camp in Aberdeenshire. A police car stopped him and found stolen goods in the back of his van,first his lawyer argued a racist bias on part of the police led him to be stopped in the first place then that the police reffered to him as a "tinker".
He,despite over 40 previous convictions,got a suspended sentence. Its hard not to think political correctness was involved somewhere.

Political correctness is not necessarily a good thing,it can go too far.

Excellent & insightful post - much appreciated.

 

[Caper]

I skimmed through this thread and couldn't stop saying to myself "what a bunch of losers for even talking about this". Now, is there a more pc term you all want to be referred to that is maybe less offensive then losers?