Another "Black Activist" Outed As White

[tyr_13]

Maybe he lied, maybe he was wrong, maybe the investigators are wrong.

If he grew up in a multi-racial household believing he was bi-racial, or even was simply not sure who is father was and thought it was more probably a black man than a white man, I simply can't get worked up about this. It's entirely possible he didn't 'lie', but presented with the evidence now is questioning his own assumptions. Then again, I'm not comfortable with most applications of identity politics anyway, so I'm not the target supporter or detractor.

If he were to get a DNA test that showed his father is black, would that make those accusing him of being white liars? I don't think it would.

 

[Lithrael]

If he's telling the truth about considering himself and being considered by everyone else as black his whole life, then I don't consider him accepting a black scholarship (etc etc) a self-serving lie.

Now if someone decides they are really black when they're thirty or something and goes on to accept racially earmarked benefits, that's something else again.

 

[Dessi]

I thought the mainstream view on race on this forum was that "race realism" is false, and that racial distinctions are a man-made fiction at best.

Was this an incorrect assumption on my part?

 

[phiwum]

I thought the mainstream view on race on this forum was that "race realism" is false, and that racial distinctions are a man-made fiction at best.

Was this an incorrect assumption on my part?

If we say that racial distinctions are a man-made convention (likely not so much consciously chosen), then does that change anything?

There's no scientific definition of marriage. It's purely a man-made convention. But I know that, because I recited my vows in front of a justice of the peace (another mere convention), I am regarded as married in this society. If I were to say that I'm single, just because that's how I feel, it would be grossly misleading at best and arguably a lie.

If someone says that he is black, despite knowing that both his parents self-identify and are identified by others as white (and are not "passing"), then he is being grossly misleading at best and arguably lying.

We don't have to buy race as a biological feature in order to distinguish deceptive self-reports from others.

(Should not bear saying, but I'll say it: I've no idea about the details of this case and whether my hypothetical situation above applies here.)

 

[Lithrael]

I thought the mainstream view on race on this forum was that "race realism" is false, and that racial distinctions are a man-made fiction at best.

That's certainly my opinion. I feel like black scholarships etc are more about opening up opportunity to a social class (role model wise as well as the benefit to individuals), which is why I said if he's grown up black then I don't have any problem with his acceptance of such a scholarship or his advocacy as a black guy or anything like that.

It's a complex issue and I'm sure I'm putting my foot in it by oversimplifying but to me, essentially, if you've always lived and passed as white you're white and if you've always lived and passed as black you're black. IMO you'd have to both feel that way yourself and generally be treated that way by your peers and community, as you grew up, because IMO that makes an integral difference to your psyche that has a strong effect on how you relate to the world, in addition to and in conjunction with the way that the world relates to you as far as how you look and act today.

A kid everyone agrees is black growing up in a black community is different from a kid everyone agrees is white growing up in a black community is different from a kid everyone agrees is black growing up in a white community is different from a kid everyone agrees is white growing up in a white community - because of the vastly different social experiences each of those imparts.

The kids that get the really tough end of the stick are the ones that want to belong to one of those communities but don't pass for whatever reason and feel disowned. And this guy, if most of his peers didn't think he was 'black enough' growing up, that would be a huge part of his experience and I can't imagine him not talking about it in the general course of black social activism because it's still a huge issue for all the lighter-phenotype biracial kids who have to deal with being othered from their own communities - although I gather great progress has been made on this since being biracial in the US has become less and less remarkable just through everyday statistics and social trends. These days biracial kids living black-but-could-pass-for-white will usually have a lot of support and acceptance in their community, to mitigate the negativity of those who treat them as trespassers.

I also gather that 'passing' itself may be a horribly outdated term/concept, if so I apologize for being the 'grandma that still says negro' in the discussion.

 

[Aepervius]

I thought the mainstream view on race on this forum was that "race realism" is false, and that racial distinctions are a man-made fiction at best.

Was this an incorrect assumption on my part?

It is only a convention not a reality, and a convention which is stupid at that. Look at it this way : if you got 1 parent white 1 parent black, what is the kid race ? Now this person get a child with a white , what race it is ? repeat recursively. Do the same starting with the initial person but getting a child with black people.

You get in the end a whole spectrum of color going from Caucasian white to African black. Good luck having everybody agree where "white" start and "white" end , same with black. And maybe at the extrem you *may* in some case draw conclusion to possible genetic illness or whatnot, but the whole intermediate rainbow is a crapshot to say anything. And there is probably more genetic difference between 2 white persons, or 2 black person (or replace by any color you want) than there is between the average black and the average white.

race is simply a fossile of a racist past which made no sense and simply was used to judge people's worth on their skin color.

Unfortunately it seems the day skin color will be treated as hair color , in other word irrelevant to judge a person, will not happen anytime soon.

 

[Edx]

Precisely. Like me: I've been telling people for years that I feel like I'm Napoleon I, but those asshats in France won't give me the First French Empire back.

Then you are an oppressive white man and should be ashamed of yourself you frog eating pastry licker!

 

[Ziggurat]

Unfortunately it seems the day skin color will be treated as hair color , in other word irrelevant to judge a person, will not happen anytime soon.

You're one of those radicals who think that gingers deserve equal rights, aren't you?

 

[marplots]

More evidence that what my black momma told me was true: "Don't trust the white man."

 

[Edx]

You're one of those radicals who think that gingers deserve equal rights, aren't you?

Here's the truth about the Ginger.

Albinos were created by the CIA in an attempt to genetically engineer a pure breed master white race with virtually no pigment. (More black = stupider and more prone to violence and degenerate behavior). They have been working on this since the early 1900's and Nazi' scientists were recruited by the Americans after WW2, evidence shows Einstein likely contributed significantly to the project. Animal tests appeared to go well, but with the first human trial there was an accident and created a freckly abomination with ginger hair with a peculiar aversion to sun light. It managed to escape and a full scale hunt undertaken. However their facility was located in a underground base in New Mexico and after 4 days they believed it was safe to assume it had died. Now it has managed to breed the Ginger is now seen all over the world. Later the CIA succeeded in creating a true albinos, they were so impressed they have even managed to create a black African albino, such is their arrogance.

 

[Bogative]

Family member confirms he's a creepy-ass-cracker.

“A family member tells CNN that both of King’s parents are white,”Lemon said on Wednesday night’s edition of CNN Tonight.

 

[Dessi]

That's certainly my opinion. I feel like black scholarships etc are more about opening up opportunity to a social class (role model wise as well as the benefit to individuals), which is why I said if he's grown up black then I don't have any problem with his acceptance of such a scholarship or his advocacy as a black guy or anything like that.

It's a complex issue and I'm sure I'm putting my foot in it by oversimplifying but to me, essentially, if you've always lived and passed as white you're white and if you've always lived and passed as black you're black. IMO you'd have to both feel that way yourself and generally be treated that way by your peers and community, as you grew up, because IMO that makes an integral difference to your psyche that has a strong effect on how you relate to the world, in addition to and in conjunction with the way that the world relates to you as far as how you look and act today.

A kid everyone agrees is black growing up in a black community is different from a kid everyone agrees is white growing up in a black community is different from a kid everyone agrees is black growing up in a white community is different from a kid everyone agrees is white growing up in a white community - because of the vastly different social experiences each of those imparts.

I understand what you're saying here, but it certainly does seem like you're implying that a person is black as long as others accept them as black (e.g. they "pass" for a black person). It sounds more like black identity is a social class, based on group acceptance, not really an essential feature that defines racial boundaries.

Several people upthread in this thread have criticized Shaun King and Rachel Dolezal on the basis that, although they were accepted as members and spokespeople for the black community (they "passed" for black for some time), they "weren't really black", because they lacked an essential feature that only true black people have.

It seems weird and contradictory to hold both views at the same time.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

I agree that it's weird. On the one hand the 'one drop' rule still seems to be in effect, and on the other hand society is coming to the conclusion that our attitudes toward race are mostly/wholly cultural.
I think the difference between biological race and attitudes toward race is important here. Until relatively recently this discrepancy wasn't considered, and the inequality people are now trying to remedy has its origins in the era where looking a certain way, or being of certain parentage was enough to inform people of your role in society. Even though we're moving away from that, it still plays a role in how society evolved.

If Dolezal and King had believed that race is a social class based on group acceptance, they would have felt no need to fabricate black parents. Apparently, they themselves felt they needed African-American heritage to be accepted by that community. And I can understand if (for lack of a better term) 'real' black people are offended by that. Someone ostensibly belonging to a more privileged group pretending to belong to an outgroup in order to reap benefits that were not intended for them.

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

Hold on here, I don't think it's accurate to say that being "black" in America is just something you are because you "identity" with it or experience it socially. The purpose of black scholarships and so forth is to provide aid to those who LITERALLY descended from people who were slaves. Whether or not race is a social construct, the reality is that this guy does not descend from people who were slaves, and he does not descend from people with recent African genetic ancestry.

I don't quite see how race is entirely a social construct when looking at someone's physical appearance can literally provide information about the specific areas of the globe their ancestors spent long periods of time. Blackness in America implies that one has ancestors who spent periods of time in Africa that other people spent somewhere else. How in the world can "being black" possibly just be a matter of identification with a community, in that context? As much as people on this board may wish that's all it were, that is not the way most black people view the situation. To them, having actual genetic descent from black African people is important in being considered black.

Whether or not this means African people are different from other people in any relevant or significant way or whether "we're all the same" (whatever that means) is really beside the point.

 

[Sherman Bay]

More evidence that what my black momma told me was true: "Don't trust the white man."

Are you sure she was black? You can never be too sure these days.

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

I thought the mainstream view on race on this forum was that "race realism" is false, and that racial distinctions are a man-made fiction at best.

Was this an incorrect assumption on my part?

I've never really understood this view. If someone has visible features that give us information about where his or her ancestors spent time on the globe, and that person holds that line of descent as an important aspect of him or herself, how is that not "real"? It's demonstrably and objectively real. How is it a man-made fiction?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

So, on MSNBC right now they are reporting this is a right wing blogger lie and the man never claimed to be black. He's a blacklivesmatter activist married to a black woman but who never once told anyone he was black.

Typical Breitbart BS.

The other side of the story

Keith Broughton, the investigating detective, said in a telephone interview on Wednesday that he had not asked Mr. King about his race but filled out the form based on the observation of the student’s light skin and white mother. ...
“Every single person who knows me BEYOND Twitter, beyond trending topics and HIT PIECES, knows I have never lied about my race,” Mr. King wrote in response on Twitter. In a second message, he added, “Out of LOVE for my family, I’ve never gone public with my racial story because it’s hurtful, scandalous, and it’s MY STORY.”...
His portrayal of the attack was backed by a band teacher and a former fellow student who said they saw it happen...

Don't Paint Him as a Rachel Dolezal ... Wife Jumps to Defense

You'd think after Breitbart's history of deceitful reporting, I'm surprised people in this forum don't think to check out stories on that website before biting into them hook, line, and sinker. Given Breitbart's history, I'm siding with the activist here unless valid evidence emerges.

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

Is there such a thing in America as a black community? If so then is this person accepted as a black person by that community? Does he identify himself as a black person? Does he have any black blood in him? If so then he should be classified as a black person.

This is not something I am making up. It is similar to the definition of an Indigenous Australian. See this as a reference http://www.whatworks.edu.au/1_1_1.htm

That's not really the way most people view blackness in America. You're considered black or mixed-black regardless of which social group you identify with, as long as you have a significant portion of genetic ancestry from the group of people who were in Africa until recently and evolved specific physical traits in sub-Saharan Africa that allow themselves and others to visibly distinguish them as a specific group.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

I've never really understood this view. If someone has visible features that give us information about where his or her ancestors spent time on the globe, and that person holds that line of descent as an important aspect of him or herself, how is that not "real"? It's demonstrably and objectively real. How is it a man-made fiction?

In what sense is it real? So you share a race with other people who did amazing things. So what? That doesn't reflect on your character one iota. You can still be a wonderful or a terrible person regardless. Yes, I understand it has psychological importance, but it's irrational. I think that culture is far more important than race. Where you grew up is what makes you who you are, not your skin color or whatever. It gets even more ridiculous when you delve into racial identity as amorphous as "white" or "black". A "white" or "black" person could be from the UK. Or Canada. Or South Africa. Or New York. And their experience is wildly different based upon where they grew up.

 

[d4m10n]

Several people upthread in this thread have criticized Shaun King and Rachel Dolezal on the basis that, although they were accepted as members and spokespeople for the black community (they "passed" for black for some time), they "weren't really black", because they lacked an essential feature that only true black people have.

Might that essential feature be a collection of childhood experiences common to most black people growing up America?

For example, the experience of de facto segregation in neighborhoods and schools.