Global warming discussion IV

[macdoc]

while we’re sweating bullets worrying about a couple inches of SL rise over the next 100 years .

is patently wrong and meant to diminish the threat and divert attention. It's far more than a "couple of inches" and we're moving house out of lower level Cairns in anticipation.
This is typical of WUWT to divert and flat out lie about what is actually going on.

Sea levels are rising faster than anticipated just a decade ago as a very warm ocean works on glaciers and a very warm Arctic gnaws at Greenland.....mid latitude glaciers have accelerated as well.

BTW Trakar is very erudite and has a quirky sense of humour.

There is nothing to be done beyond having an early warning system if Cascadia goes....there IS something to be done about the extent and onset of sealevel rise and that does not sit well with Watts funding sponsors....Heartland and Koch et al.
So they smoke screen and divert attention from the need eliminate coal in short order and get working on other fossil fuels.
The denier machine at it's best....or worst ....however you want to view it.

I suggest you take the time and inform yourself of the campaign that Watts is an integral part of to muddy the water and try and shift public opinion. A manufactured controversy. This should cover it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBwmgPHgjXM

 

[Trakar]

Trakar is English your second Language?

Why, and by the way, did you complete grammar school?

Actually, English is my third language, but I was born and raised in the U.S. and both sides of my family have been on this continent since before this nation was formed.

Anyway could you give a couple of examples of Watts' "political machinations"?

His website and virtually everything posted upon it.
The two best examples available.

 

[acementhead]

California Drought

Drought is the normal condition for California

Stine, who has spent decades studying tree stumps in Mono Lake, Tenaya Lake, the Walker River and other parts of the Sierra Nevada, said that the past century has been among the wettest of the last 7,000 years.

Most people are horribly stupid. They think that the way things are now is the normal condition. It isn't. Weather changes; climate changes. Always have and always will.

The two most severe megadroughts make the Dust Bowl of the 1930s look tame: a 240-year-long drought that started in 850 and, 50 years after the conclusion of that one, another that stretched at least 180 years.

http://www.mercurynews.com/business...m-lever-hiring-diversity-tech?source=infinite




Below is one of the comments to the quoted article. It hits the nail on the head. The problem in California isn't drought it's mad "environmentalism".

Jeff Knox • a month ago
A 200-year drought would undoubtedly be a serious challenge, but what this article neglects to mention is the impact of environmental regulations on the current water shortage situation in California.
California has the water retention capacity to dramatically mitigate the current problems. There is enough water. But after several lawsuits and settlement agreements, California stopped utilizing much of their drought mitigation infrastructure. Millions of acre-feet of water that could be used for crops and urban purposes is flushed into the ocean every year in unsuccessful attempts to protect smelt and reestablish long-dead salmon runs.
Even though this waste has proven unproductive, it continues unabated.
Making this water again available to farmers and city water users would immediately end almost all of the drought impact - ending the need for rationing, returning acreage to production, and restoring jobs. And doing so would have little, if any, impact on threatened and endangered species that are clearly struggling due to factors other than stream flow.
California is cutting its own throat - and holding the knife to the throats of Arizona, Nevada, and Utah - with this misguided "environmentalism" that is demonstrably unproductive and destructive.

Environmentalists are killers. They've already sent millions of people to early deaths caused by privation due to artificially high food prices caused by the "bio-fuel" insanity. The UN says, and I agree, that governmental mandates of bio-fuels is a crime against humanity.

 

[CapelDodger]

Environmentalists are killers. They've already sent millions of people to early deaths caused by privation due to artificially high food prices caused by the "bio-fuel" insanity. The UN says, and I agree, that governmental mandates of bio-fuels is a crime against humanity.

Environmentalists have never advocated making fuel from food. The bio-fuels mandate was dreamed up by politicians and bureaucrats because it could be presented as "taking action on climate" while not having any noticeable impact on voters' lives or the fossil-fuel industry. In the US it had the added benefit of being very popular with the Iowa electorate, which has a peculiar influence on national elections.

Environmentalists advocate making fuel from waste, not from food, and have campaigned against current policies from the start.

 

[CapelDodger]

Drought is the normal condition for California

Drought cannot be a normal condition. Where rainfall is normally low the condition is arid. Drought refers to an extended period of lower than normal rainfall - ergo, not normal.

California covers a wide range of climates, of course, but as I understand it they're all suffering drought conditions at the moment and you'll have a hard time persuading the inhabitants they're not.

 

[CapelDodger]

Most people are horribly stupid. They think that the way things are now is the normal condition. It isn't. Weather changes; climate changes. Always have and always will.

Climate doesn't always change. It's changing now, of course, but people are in the main stupid and think that how things are in their own day is how they've always been.

Below is one of the comments to the quoted article. It hits the nail on the head.

It seems rather confused to me. At one point we have "There is enough water" but later "... would immediately end almost all of the drought impact ..." - where did that "almost" creep in? Just how "almost" are we talking here? Then there are "failed" attempts to protect smelt - if they've failed, where are the smelt coming from?

The problem in California isn't drought it's mad "environmentalism".

I miss those psychedelic sunsets over Los Angeles as well. Sometimes they went on all day.

 

[CapelDodger]

Watt's political machinations ...

You are too kind, I think. One thing that's very clear about Watts is that he is way too stupid to machinate.

 

[Warmer1]

I doubt any of the figures behind the AGW denial campaign will face prosecution unless someone can be directly linked to criminal hacking, which is practically impossible. I don't think anyone was prosecuted for the tobacco industry's campaign which has been so thoroughly revealed, but we might perhaps see governments elected which will conduct a formal investigation with subpoena rights, perjury liability and such like. First witness : John Mashey.

In the realm of the possible, I do wish the Mann v Steyn et al case would get into court, it promises to be most entertaining.

I should have stated that I'm not talking about what will happen legally.

When young people realize that their future is &*^%#$ because of climate change deniers they are not going to care about laws. Imagine young people that would normally become skin heads, bikers, gang members, killers for cartels, mobsters, homicidal maniacs and assassins find out that their future is ruined no matter what is done due to climate change.

Things are not horrible yet but they will be. I think young people are going to want answers and much of the blame will land on climate change deniers.

I hate to say this but I think climate change deniers are going to be hunted down in the future. As horrible as that sounds I honestly think people with no hope for the future are going to be really, really angry.

If anyone don't think so please explain why this won't happen.

 

[CapelDodger]

When young people realize that their future is &*^%#$ because of climate change deniers they are not going to care about laws.

Not advocating, just saying. I understand.

Imagine young people that would normally become skin heads, bikers, gang members, killers for cartels, mobsters, homicidal maniacs and assassins find out that their future is ruined no matter what is done due to climate change.

Those are actually groups who stand to benefit from social breakdown. Imagine biker kingdoms carved out of the Mid-West, not to mention all the Aryan Nations. That would sound like a great future to such people.

Things are not horrible yet but they will be. I think young people are going to want answers and much of the blame will land on climate change deniers.

And boy will we flame them for it.

I hate to say this but I think climate change deniers are going to be hunted down in the future.

Any meat that ain't family will be hunted down when things really go wrong.

As horrible as that sounds I honestly think people with no hope for the future are going to be really, really angry.

If anyone don't think so please explain why this won't happen.

The same reason we haven't seen bankers swinging from lamp-posts. What that reason might be I really don't know, but there it is. Maybe the French will show the way again.

 

[Trakar]

You are too kind, I think. One thing that's very clear about Watts is that he is way too stupid to machinate.

He may not have created the format, but he is implementing it and following the script.

 

[Trakar]

Not advocating, just saying. I understand.

Those are actually groups who stand to benefit from social breakdown. Imagine biker kingdoms carved out of the Mid-West, not to mention all the Aryan Nations. That would sound like a great future to such people.

And boy will we flame them for it.

Any meat that ain't family will be hunted down when things really go wrong.

The same reason we haven't seen bankers swinging from lamp-posts. What that reason might be I really don't know, but there it is. Maybe the French will show the way again.

"...My wife and I just don't understand what happened. When Maxwell was young he was so polite and well-mannered, but as he got older he just seems to have gotten angrier and angrier..."




Mad Max: the Prologue!

 

[CapelDodger]

He may not have created the format, but he is implementing it and following the script.

Watts is certainly a contemptible squit, which is perhaps why his site has become a leader in the tabloid end of the denier market. The operation doesn't seem as slick as it used to be what with this Open Atmosphere Society fiasco, which is stupid enough to actually be Watts's own idea. The whole movement seems to be in terminal decay but I'm sure it'll have a long tail.

 

[macdoc]

Lot of funding has dried up but Koch seems to have deep pockets. Anyways..back to the rather interesting unfolding of AGW consequences overlaying a giant El Nino still growing.

Silver lining might just be breaking the drought but will take two years of deluge to make any progress.

 

[The Atheist]

When young people realize that their future is &*^%#$ because of climate change deniers they are not going to care about laws.

Oh, trés scientific.

Carbon, I understand, is mainly emitted by energy generation, industry, agriculture and vehicles.

Has the 80% of Americans who aren't in denial stopped using their cars yet?

You're on the wrong target. Deniers are a factor in climate change in exactly the same way fuel-saving scams are a factor in petrol prices.

 

[macdoc]

World wide efforts are made in transportation to reduce emissions.Public transit is growing and places like Copehagen and Norway put a heavy tax on ICE vehicles

The fleet average n Europe is 50 mpg and the US is getting there.

Why would any sane person counsel stopping use of cars.

That is not the major issue.....coal fired generation is....and the owners are funding the denial nonsense.

Your thesis is nonsense.

 

[The Atheist]

Why would any sane person counsel stopping use of cars.

Ah. You're obviously unaware of mass transport systems.

They are cleverly designed to help people commute communally. Quite useful, they are.

That is not the major issue.....coal fired generation is....and the owners are funding the denial nonsense.

Your thesis is nonsense.

Except you just proved it yourself!

I will quote again:

....and the owners are funding the denial nonsense.

That would be the owners, not the deniers, who are to blame.

Thanks for agreeing with me - it's not the deniers.

 

[Trakar]

Watts is certainly a contemptible squit, which is perhaps why his site has become a leader in the tabloid end of the denier market. The operation doesn't seem as slick as it used to be what with this Open Atmosphere Society fiasco, which is stupid enough to actually be Watts's own idea. The whole movement seems to be in terminal decay but I'm sure it'll have a long tail.

That tail is only as long as the Reaper's scythe.

 

[Reality Check]

Well because it's started already ...

Sorry, Haig but that is a lie because none of your links are about a Grand Minimum already causing winters to become colder in the Northern Hemisphere (the Little Ice Age).
Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming?
And the answer is yes as she quotes!
Possible artifacts of data biases in the recent global surface warming hiatus

Abstract: Much study has been devoted to the possible causes of an apparent decrease in the upward trend of global surface temperatures since 1998, a phenomenon that has been dubbed the global warming “hiatus.” Here we present an updated global surface temperature analysis that reveals that global trends are higher than reported by the IPCC, especially in recent decades, and that the central estimate for the rate of warming during the first 15 years of the 21st century is at least as great as the last half of the 20th century. These results do not support the notion of a “slowdown” in the increase of global surface temperature.

12 August 2015 Haig: 5 years of denial of science dating from 19th February 2010 (a new Maunder Minimum will only have a small effect on global warming).
12 August 2015 Haig: Your denial of the real world where the Sun's output has been constant for the last 35 years while global temperatures have increased continues.

P.S. No sign that you understand
14 August 2015 Haig: Explaining how the water vapor greenhouse effect works

 

[CapelDodger]

That tail is only as long as the Reaper's scythe.

Good point. A lot of these people are in the Grim One's preferred demographic.

 

[acementhead]

Environmentalists have never advocated making fuel from food. The bio-fuels mandate was dreamed up by politicians and bureaucrats because it could be presented as "taking action on climate" while not having any noticeable impact on voters' lives or the fossil-fuel industry. In the US it had the added benefit of being very popular with the Iowa electorate, which has a peculiar influence on national elections.

Environmentalists advocate making fuel from waste, not from food, and have campaigned against current policies from the start.

Yes I checked on Friends of the Earth and you are right and I was wrong. I'm not certain about "never"(but it is quite possible) but certainly well before Bio was started in a big way(I checked back to 2002 and FOE was opposed then). I am totally opposed to all farm subsidies(actually all subsidies in general).

The US has the best politicians that money can buy. Al Gore for instance, a bloated, hypocritical, non-scientist, dumb(IQ132 from SAT) failed Divinity Student.

As late as 1988, Al Gore was bragging in a speech to tobacco farmers in North Carolina, ''Throughout most of my life, I raised tobacco. I want you to know that with my own hands, all of my life, I put it in the plant beds and transferred it. I've hoed it. I've dug in it. I've sprayed it, I've chopped it, I've shredded it, spiked it, put it in the barn and stripped it and sold it.'' And made money growing a carcinogen that killed other people's loved ones. Gore made this speech, remember, four years after his sister's death. And 24 years after the surgeon general's report.

.

Gore flies all over the world in a private jet. He has nothing worth while to say. He is a revolting money grubbing PR BSer. And dumb, did I mention dumb?