Continuation Part 17: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Grinder said:
For now let's take as givens that he killed Meredith by himself and that he had barely visible scars on his hands.
He had decided that his story would be that a stranger came in while he was on the toilet and killed her, but that he had confronted the knife wielding blond Italian. As proof of this he showed the Germans the marks.

An alternative is that he had managed to murder her without cutting himself but wanted the evidence of his heroic battle and cut his own hand lightly shortly after arriving in Germany.

I don't believe that the ILE would figure out that Rudi's blood they found early on would spoil their case against Amanda.
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That was not deemed by the courts, the pathologist, the luminol and DNA experts, so, no, not "given".
 
Grinder said:
Yes but his stories covered his acts. Blond Italian is probably the equivalent of black man with an Afro.
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yeah.. and Rudy heard everything from the toilet, except when Matteini asked him about hearing Merediths phone ring he doesnt remember, which is the equivalent to not being able to think up lies fast enough to cover the questions.

Rudys lucky Migninni and the polizia gestapo didnt go after him like they did Amanda and Raffaele and Patrick.
 
Ammonitida said:
When is the motivational report due?
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It was due June 25, 2015. The best guess now is that it is caught both in a backlog as well as the inevitable summer recess of the Italian court system (tends to be August). Best guess is also because the March 27 acquittals ends the matter, and there will be no further remand for further evidence-trials at the 2nd grade level, that there is no hurry on that issue alone.

Best guess is sometime in September.
 
Grinder said:
Ahh why couldn't he have left it there on the pillow and the murderer moved it. I'm sure no one reported that shoe prints were found having stepped in it and I doubt he would have remembered that.

Semen being indicative, all the more reason for him to concoct a story.
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Sure. He jizzed on the pillow and the real murderer got lucky and put it right between her legs. I would think that Rudy knew that such a story was too dumb to be believable.
 
Ken Dine said:
Personally, I feel Guede's initial attack when he stabbed Meredith was done from behind, as evidenced by the unimpeded blood spray patterns on her bedroom walls and closet.

At some point Guede apparently did place Meredith on her back (and on the pillow) while she was still alive since Meredith had also aspirated blood onto her chest and bra, but at that point she was near death, so her aspirated blood likely wasn't spraying as far as it had done during the initial attack, so very little blood was probably sprayed onto Guede from Meredith's aspirations. Maybe some, but likely not a lot.

During his rape, Guede could have also used a towel over Meredith's neck to lessen any blood spray while she was dying.
Guede obviously had removed his socks and shoes at some point (hence, the blue bathmat), so Meredith's blood may have transferred to those items if Guede had not been careful where he placed them in that bloody mess.
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Used a towel? I wonder if this is why he decided to cover the the upper portion of her body with the duvet? Now I gotta ask. When the police examined the duvet, did they examine both sides or just one side? - just as they only checked one side of the bedroom door for evidence since only one side faced the crime scene.

I never bought the prosecution's interpretation that covering the victim was a sign of remorse or respect and thus indicated a female killer. I always thought the duvet was used to cover the victim's upper body so Rudi could pursue sexual activity without having to look at the gore he created or the face staring back at him. Perhaps it aso muffled last gasps or aspirations.
 
Vixen said:
That was not deemed by the courts, the pathologist, the luminol and DNA experts, so, no, not "given".
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Yeah, you're right. All those clowns were able to figure out was: not killed by Knox and Sollecito.
 
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Strozzi said:
Used a towel? I wonder if this is why he decided to cover the the upper portion of her body with the duvet? Now I gotta ask. When the police examined the duvet, did they examine both sides or just one side? - just as they only checked one side of the bedroom door for evidence since only one side faced the crime scene.

I never bought the prosecution's interpretation that covering the victim was a sign of remorse or respect and thus indicated a female killer. I always thought the duvet was used to cover the victim's upper body so Rudi could pursue sexual activity without having to look at the gore he created or the face staring back at him. Perhaps it aso muffled last gasps or aspirations.
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IIRC, covering the body is often associated with novice killers, almost always male, and is said to be a sign of remorse.

Suggesting that it indicates a female presence is just more Italian balogney from that master of ceremonies, his clownliness the great Mignini.
 
Diocletus said:
Sure. He jizzed on the pillow and the real murderer got lucky and put it right between her legs. I would think that Rudy knew that such a story was too dumb to be believable.
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You seem to think the early reports included the exact location of the semen. AFAIK the only reports had semen being found and yes Rudi would have thought a story like my example would work. Unless it wasn't his...
 
JREF2010 said:
yeah.. and Rudy heard everything from the toilet, except when Matteini asked him about hearing Merediths phone ring he doesnt remember, which is the equivalent to not being able to think up lies fast enough to cover the questions.

Rudys lucky Migninni and the polizia gestapo didnt go after him like they did Amanda and Raffaele and Patrick.
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The story he told Giacomo wasn't being glib. He had plenty of time to work it out before the Skype.
 
carbonjam72 said:
IIRC, covering the body is often associated with novice killers, almost always male, and is said to be a sign of remorse.

Suggesting that it indicates a female presence is just more Italian balogney from that master of ceremonies, his clownliness the great Mignini.
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IIRC John Douglas said the covering of the body was indicative of nothing. At trial is was simply another of the pseudo-evidence simply put out there by Mignini.

Apparently, Judge Massei is silent on the subject, even in convicting the pair in 2009. Still guilters seem to reserve the right to dredge up this factoid, regardless of whether or not any of the courts found it as anything ore that Mignini's gas-bagging.
 
Bill Williams said:
IIRC John Douglas said the covering of the body was indicative of nothing. At trial is was simply another of the pseudo-evidence simply put out there by Mignini.

Apparently, Judge Massei is silent on the subject, even in convicting the pair in 2009. Still guilters seem to reserve the right to dredge up this factoid, regardless of whether or not any of the courts found it as anything ore that Mignini's gas-bagging.
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I thought John Douglas said it indicated regret, which is something I agree with. I think Rudy acted on impulse when he was in his fugue-like criminal state after the break-in and came across the defenseless woman by herself while he was armed with a knife. And when it was all over he realized the gravity of his actions, and putting the blanket over her was his infantile attempt to sweep his actions under the rug.

On the other hand a couple of psychopath thrill killers would have no reason to cover up the very sex crime they were trying to stage.
 
Grinder said:
You seem to think the early reports included the exact location of the semen. AFAIK the only reports had semen being found and yes Rudi would have thought a story like my example would work. Unless it wasn't his...
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Rudy knew exactly where the semen was. And he also knew that the story would have been too ridiculous to be believed.
 
bagels said:
I thought John Douglas said it indicated regret, which is something I agree with. I think Rudy acted on impulse when he was in his fugue-like criminal state after the break-in and came across the defenseless woman by herself while he was armed with a knife. And when it was all over he realized the gravity of his actions, and putting the blanket over her was his infantile attempt to sweep his actions under the rug.

On the other hand a couple of psychopath thrill killers would have no reason to cover up the very sex crime they were trying to stage.
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Without getting in to it too much (!) it has been a long time since I have read anything by Douglas. Maybe the way to put it (again if I at all remember correctly) is that by itself, covering the body means nothing. For Douglas's purposes as a "profiler" he uses his own findings (in polling actual killers as to what they actually did) to help narrow a field of potential suspects, esp. when the investigation appears like it is stalling. That's the whole point of profiling, by not wasting time on what real-perps never report as their habit.

It does not mean that in the one case in front of them, it could not be. Again, what it means is to narrow a field of suspects. If Douglas had been consulted in the investigation of this case, he would have said, "Look for a first time, opportunistic perp, not someone with experience." Douglas might have even guessed that the murder was because of something like a robbery gone wrong.

Perhaps back to the issue at hand. John Douglas has reason to suggest what he suggests - actual interviews with actual perps. Mignini just makes it up as per his dietrological fantasy.
 
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Bill Williams said:
Without getting in to it too much (!) it has been a long time since I have read anything by Douglas. Maybe the way to put it (again if I at all remember correctly) is that by itself, covering the body means nothing. For Douglas's purposes as a "profiler" he uses his own findings (in polling actual killers as to what they actually did) to help narrow a field of potential suspects, esp. when the investigation appears like it is stalling. That's the whole point of profiling, by not wasting time on what real-perps never report as their habit.

It does not mean that in the one case in front of them, it could not be. Again, what it means is to narrow a field of suspects. If Douglas had been consulted in the investigation of this case, he would have said, "Look for a first time, opportunistic perp, not someone with experience." Douglas might have even guessed that the murder was because of something like a robbery gone wrong.

Perhaps back to the issue at hand. John Douglas has reason to suggest what he suggests - actual interviews with actual perps. Mignini just makes it up as per his dietrological fantasy.
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I agree the blanket isn't a piece of evidence nor useful in solving the crime. But if it's consistent with either of the two proposed scenarios it's the one that actually happened, the one with Guede killing after his break-in.
 
MK or RG?

All the talk today about Rudy's cut hand has got me thinkin'.
Hmmmm...

Just saw a photo once again that's always intrigued me:
picture.php


This blood stain is from the wall above Meredith's bed,
above where her pillow most likely would have lain on her bed.

I seem to recall Dan O. or someone else telling me awhile back
that there was no fingerprints found here.

What about the blood?
Was this blood from MK or RG?
Or both?

Well,
I don't recall ever seeing a comparison
of the bloody wall marks + Rudy Guede's cut right hand,
so I snipped these 2 pics + rotated 1 of them:

picture.php
and
picture.php


then kinda visualized the cut hand of Rudy Guede leanin' on Meredith's wall,
well I think that it kinda matches the bloody finger marks,
might you agree?

Heck,
there are 4 bloody finger marks on the wall,
but no bloody thumb mark.

Rudy did not cut his thumb.

Darker blood on the wall where the pinky finger is seems to match the cut location on Rudy.
Darker blood on the wall where the ring finger is seems angled and appears to match the cut location on Rudy.
Darker blood on the wall where the pointy finger is seems to match the cut location on Rudy.

And that single drop of blood below the bloody finger marks?
It sure looks like a fresh drop of blood that dribbled down a bit before drying, right?
Might it have been from "poor Rudy's" palm cut?


What do you think?
Surely these bloody finger marks
and that drop of blood below were tested,
and ruled to be only from Meredith,
right?
 
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