Can one disprove Jesus' resurrection?

Can one disprove Jesus' resurrection?


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I have not read further down your post than the first lines quotes above, but actually what you say there is wrong.

The first dictionary link that you gave was to “Dictionary.com”, and where it mentions God, it says “of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or attributed to God or a deity“. And that was what you were talking about, remember? You were inviting us to consider a God meddling to raise Jesus from the truly dead by supernatural means that you say are “beyond or outside of science”.

However, even if your choice of dictionary was/is so incautious as to write a definition as if implying that the supernatural events really had happened, then (a) you should be ashamed of yourself relying on something as incautious as that to claim yourself that the supernatural might actually be true, and (b) you should get a better dictionary (or rely on something better than a "paper" dictionary).
OK, a different reply, cool.

Sure, using a dictionary to define words is 'incautious'. Of course I should use your definitions, how foolish of me. Let's see what those Oxford hacks have to say:

Oxford said:
(Of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature: a supernatural being

I'm convinced by the repetition of your argument. The dictionaries are stupid and wrong. Let's follow your lead and not be bound by their foolishness!
 
So you believe the Gospels were written in English, or the Authorized Version was dictated by some supernaturally ultimate authority?

You're searching a translation from the Greek "Πάτερ ἡμῶν ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς". "Daddy" is more colloquial than "Father", but either would be an accurate translation of "Πάτερ". "οὐρανοῖς" can be translated as "sky" or "heaven"; both are accurate.

So "sky daddy" is an entirely accurate, if slightly colloquial, translation of a Greek phrase attributed to Jesus by scripture. If you insist upon thinking Jesus's use of that phrase was an insult to someone, that's fine with me.

Lolz, it is like I am back in fifth grade listening to a kid explain that the reason he kept calling another kid a "homo" because he was a "homo sapiens."

It is a juvenile insult designed to solely to belittle theists. I can't believe that you wasted your time trying to rationalize it, tho. It comes from the original greek you see.... :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Lolz, it is like I am back in fifth grade listening to a kid explain that the reason he kept calling another kid a "homo" because he was a "homo sapiens."

It is a juvenile insult designed to solely to belittle theists. I can't believe that you wasted your time trying to rationalize it, tho. It comes from the original greek you see.... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Seems to have gotten your goat so according to you you are a theist.

Why are you so concerned about what others say? Did someone die and leave you in charge?
 
RATIONALIZATION by METAPHORICALIZATION

WHOOSH the definition of metaphor just flew over your head


Let me see if I can explain to you in terms that might not go woosh over your head why your comment is utterly imbecilic.

I made a post saying

How intelligent can one be to believe that a metaphorical woman made from the spare rib of a metaphorical man got tricked by a metaphorical talking snake and in turn she tricked her metaphorical rib donator and both ate from the fruits of a metaphorical magical tree that endowed those metaphorical couple with such wisdom so as to anger their sky daddy to the point of holding a grudge against them and their descendants to the umpteenth generation?


The sarcastic reference was to the Catholic Church admitting that evolution is fact and thus implying that Adam and Eve and their talking snake and their "original sin" which is the basis for the entire Jesus farce did not exist and their saga never occurred.

Do you understand how if there is a story in the Buybull that never actually happened is thus claimed to be metaphorical according to the people who bought the bull in the Buybull?

You see, the Buybull fanfic have to admit that this story that never happened is either a MYTH in a fairy tale or they claim it is a metaphor in order to maintain a delusion of it having significance other than a childish story in a book of myths and fairy tales.

Do you know what a metaphor is?

Here is another example of RATIONALIZATION by METAPHORICALIZATION . :D

In the Buybull there is a story about how Jesus cursed a fruitless fig tree because it did not have fruits out of season and as a petulant brat he damned the tree to death.

If this story is to be taken literally then it shows that Jesus was a moron.

So what do the people who swallow the bull in the Buybull do to make their sky daddy less of a great fool?

They tell us it is a metaphor where the fig tree is really the Jewish nation and their sky daddy meant to curse the Jewish nation for not believing in him.

I hope that this metaphor has not gone woosh over your head... do you see how when taken as a metaphor it becomes even WORSE than if taken literally?

If taken literally it means Jesus was a moron... if taken metaphorically it means Jesus was a genocidal despotic vile filth.

Much like with the Catholic Church admitting that evolution is a fact but yet not having packed their bags and gone fishing en mass and putting up a sign infront of Peter's Basilica declaring that Christianity is nothing but claptrap.

The Catholic Church carrying on with the Jesus being the son of their Sky Daddy who is really 1/3 of a god in three parts is the most preposterous travesty of illogic even if they do not hold that evolution is fact.

But in the light of them admitting that evolution is a fact, it is utter INSANITY to carry on believing that their sky daddy had to go through the trifurcation process and impregnation of a 13 years old virgin and then the tortuous human blood sacrifice of himself to himself so as to appease himself for a METAPHOR.


My post which you quoted and made the imbecilic comment about was in response to this post below made in response to my above post.

I'm not wholly convinced that you have a solid understanding of what metaphor means, although I was pretty convinced when you started calling people stupid...


Which demonstrates utter lack of appreciation of the sarcasm and criticism that my post entailed.

OR...

So do you believe in an actual Adam and Eve who were real people in 3759 BCE and that their real sky daddy really kicked them out of the garden of Eden because they really were tricked by a real talking snake into eating a real magical fruit from a real magical tree?

And all this happened despite the Catholic Church claiming that evolution is true but that their sky daddy had infused souls in humans at some stage during the evolutionary process?

Can you explain what Adam and Eve and the talking snake would become if there was no Adam and Eve and no talking snake since humans evolved?
 
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Seems to have gotten your goat so according to you you are a theist.

Why are you so concerned about what others say? Did someone die and leave you in charge?

Interesting example of the Rule of So there, very interesting.

"who died and left YOU in charge?" -- Billy Hogan Grade 6.

It is like you are channeling my grammar school classmates!
 
Let me see if I can explain to you in terms that might not go woosh over your head why your comment is utterly imbecilic.

at which point follows several paragraphs showing that Leumas does not understand the concept of metaphor and the use of figurative language.

But he did use the words "Buybull" and "Sky daddy" in his screed.
 
How intelligent can one be to believe that a metaphorical woman made from the spare rib of a metaphorical man got tricked by a metaphorical talking snake and in turn she tricked her metaphorical rib donator and both ate from the fruits of a metaphorical magical tree that endowed those metaphorical couple with such wisdom so as to anger their sky daddy to the point of holding a grudge against them and their descendants to the umpteenth generation?
....


I'm not wholly convinced that you have a solid understanding of what metaphor means, although I was pretty convinced when you started calling people stupid...


So do you believe in an actual Adam and Eve who were real people in 3759 BCE and that their real sky daddy really kicked them out of the garden of Eden because they really were tricked by a real talking snake into eating a real magical fruit from a real magical tree?

And all this happened despite the Catholic Church claiming that evolution is true but that their sky daddy had infused souls in humans at some stage during the evolutionary process?

Can you explain what Adam and Eve and the talking snake would become if there was no Adam and Eve and no talking snake since humans evolved?....


No, and from what i understand neither do Catholics.

...
protip: they don't, quite the opposite in fact. In fact, I assume many people come to your first insult and roll their eyes and stop reading, like I did here.


You see if you've actually read my whole posts before you started attacking me then maybe you might have understood why your statements are foolish sophistry.

I asked you...
Can you explain what Adam and Eve and the talking snake would become if there was no Adam and Eve and no talking snake?

Can you answer the above question please!!!
 
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protip: they don't, quite the opposite in fact. In fact, I assume many people come to your first insult and roll their eyes and stop reading, like I did here.

You see if you've actually read my whole posts before you started attacking me then maybe you might have understood why your attacks are foolish sophistry...

:rolleyes: Stops reading
 
Interesting example of the Rule of So there, very interesting.

"who died and left YOU in charge?" -- Billy Hogan Grade 6.

It is like you are channeling my grammar school classmates!


Again with this making up your own rules as you go along!

I guess if people make up their own sky daddies why not also make up their own casuistry rules in apologetics for these sky daddies and the Buybull they supposedly wrote.
 
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OK, a different reply, cool.

Sure, using a dictionary to define words is 'incautious'. Of course I should use your definitions, how foolish of me. Let's see what those

Oxford hacks have to say:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/supernatural
(Of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature:
a supernatural being


I'm convinced by the repetition of your argument. The dictionaries are stupid and wrong. Let's follow your lead and not be bound by their foolishness!


Did you miss the words "attributed to" (see highlight)? See below re. the highlighted parts -


http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/supernatural

the supernatural noun [singular] events, forces or powers that cannot be explained by the laws of science and that seem to involve gods or magic
synonym the paranormal
a belief in the supernatural



http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/attribute_1
Verb Forms

attribute something to something
to say or believe that something is the result of a particular thing
She attributes her success to hard work and a little luck.
to say or believe that somebody is responsible for doing something, especially for saying, writing or painting something
attribute something The committee refused to attribute blame without further information.
attribute something to somebody This play is usually attributed to Shakespeare.
 
...
How retarded does one have to be Donn? the question is squarely presented and seeks a champion to take up the task of answering the skeptical question: How retarded does one have to be?


Why don't you answer the questions that were presented to you too?

  1. Can you explain what Adam and Eve and the talking snake would become if there was no Adam and Eve and no talking snake since humans evolved?
    _
  2. What do you think of people who believe that cutting the throat of a chicken and letting it cluck and bleed its life out slowly and then sprinkling its blood over their fetishes and talismans is one way they can effect desired changes to reality and to exercise influence over demons and ghosts and spirits to make them perform their bidding?
    _
  3. What do you call people who believe in Human Blood Sacrifice of their children as the only way redemption and atonement can be achieved?
 
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RATIONALIZATION by METAPHORICALIZATION

Surely Leumas employs baroquely literal readings, but how is anyone to know the degree of metaphor in another's mind? And how, when the degree itself floats up and down the dial to conveniently hollow argument, can one make any headway.


You see a few centuries ago when the Buybull claptrap was exposed for the insanity it is, the people who cherished the bull that is in the Buybull burnt alive anyone who did the exposing all in defense of the INERRANCY OF THE LITERAL WORD OF GOD.

Now that they can no longer tortuously brake every bone in people's bodies one by one and then quarter them for pointing out the preposterousness of the Buybull, they resort to casuistry and apologetics telling us it is a metaphor.

However, it is a case of out of the frying pan into the fire for most of their metaphorical rationalizations.

Let's take my favorite example of the petulant brat Jesus cursing a fig tree for not having fruit out of season.

One RATIONALIZATION by METAPHORICALIZATION is to say it is Jesus showing his dominion over nature... unfortunately it then becomes even worse since it shows Jesus as a vile killer of a helpless tree for his vainglorious boasting.

It never occurred to them to realize that a less vile and conceited showing off would have been to make it have fruits and double in size instead of cursing it to death.

So out of the frying pan into the fire .... either their sky daddy as described in the Buybull is a MORON or a VILE DESPOT.

So what to do? WHAT TO DO? What can they do now????

They no longer can quarter and burn people who point out the ARRANT INSANITY and VILENESS of their sky daddy and his buybull... neither can they torture and cut the tongues and hands of people who point out that their attempts at RATIONALIZATION by METAPHORICALIZATION are also utterly imbecilic.

So what to do?

Ah... here is a new solution

WHOOSH the definition of metaphor just flew over your head

I'm not wholly convinced that you have a solid understanding of what metaphor means...

"sky daddy" is the universal indicator of pejorative derisive mocking although a very good indicator that what follows will be not worth one's time.

..
ETA: Actually... Isn't this why faith is required in spite of evidence, a meddling god (or a meddling demon) could make it appears as if they don't exist.
 
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Did you miss the words "attributed to" (see highlight)? See below re. the highlighted parts -


http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/supernatural

the supernatural noun [singular] events, forces or powers that cannot be explained by the laws of science and that seem to involve gods or magic

:sigh:

Supernatural said:
1. that cannot be explained by the laws of science AND that seems to involve gods or magic

You seemed to have stopped thinking when you hit "seem" and thought you found your smoking gun. You forget the "AND" right there in the middle:

"That cannot be explained by the laws of science" is a complete thought.
"that seems to involve gods or magic" is another complete thought.

The AND means that BOTH apply together, not separately. Thus, while you are correct that it may "seem" to involve gods or magic, it definitely, without reservation must be "cannot be explained by the laws of science."

Of course, this renders all the "attribute" nonsense moot.

I had never thought the dictionary was overcomplicated, but oh well.
 
Ah... here is a new solution]
The Greater Fool said:
..
ETA: Actually... Isn't this why faith is required in spite of evidence, a meddling god (or a meddling demon) could make it appears as if they don't exist.
Right, it says that's why faith is required IN SPITE OF EVIDENCE... surely, a bolder declaration of support for faith and god has never been seen. I am unmasked. The inquisition begins at dawn :rolleyes:
 
:sigh:



You seemed to have stopped thinking when you hit "seem" and thought you found your smoking gun. You forget the "AND" right there in the middle:

"That cannot be explained by the laws of science" is a complete thought.
"that seems to involve gods or magic" is another complete thought.

The AND means that BOTH apply together, not separately. Thus, while you are correct that it may "seem" to involve gods or magic, it definitely, without reservation must be "cannot be explained by the laws of science."

Of course, this renders all the "attribute" nonsense moot.

I had never thought the dictionary was overcomplicated, but oh well.



No! You are now openly and unashamedly being disingenuous in full view of everyone here. Quote my whole post please, you selectively chopped most of it out.

You tried to claim that your own first dictionary link had presented a definition of the supernatural as if it were a known real thing beyond any scientific understanding, and as if the words from old deeply unscientific "paper" dictionaries should supersede modern scientific understanding. But your own first link only said it was "attributed to" some claimed force, here’s the full quote of that post -


OK, a different reply, cool.

Sure, using a dictionary to define words is 'incautious'. Of course I should use your definitions, how foolish of me. Let's see what those Oxford hacks have to say:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/supernatural

(Of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature:a supernatural being

I'm convinced by the repetition of your argument. The dictionaries are stupid and wrong. Let's follow your lead and not be bound by their foolishness!


Did you miss the words "attributed to" (see highlight)? See below re. the highlighted parts -



http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/supernatural

the supernatural noun [singular] events, forces or powers that cannot be explained by the laws of science and that seem to involve gods or magic
synonym the paranormal
a belief in the supernatural



http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/attribute_1
Verb Forms

attribute something to something
to say or believe that something is the result of a particular thing
She attributes her success to hard work and a little luck.
to say or believe that somebody is responsible for doing something, especially for saying, writing or painting something
attribute something The committee refused to attribute blame without further information.
attribute something to somebody This play is usually attributed to Shakespeare.



And after pointing out to you that even your own link clearly said that claimed supernatural events were only ""attributed" to some force beyond scientific understanding", meaning that the supernatural was only "said to be" due to some unknown force, I added for your clarification another definition from the same group of dictionaries that is even clearer in saying that the claimed forces of the supernatural only "seem to" involve gods or magic, and that it is in the dictionaries summary only described as a "BELIEF". See the full quoted post above and it's highlighted parts.

See also in the quoted post above the definition of what "attributed to" means. It means, to quote it again for you, something only "said to be" of any such origin, something only "believed" to be from that origin, i.e. it's only a "CLAIM" of such things, here's the quote again -


http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/attribute_1
Verb Forms

attribute something to something
to say or believe that something is the result of a particular thing
She attributes her success to hard work and a little luck.
to say or believe that somebody is responsible for doing something, especially for saying, writing or painting something
attribute something The committee refused to attribute blame without further information.
attribute something to somebody This play is usually attributed to Shakespeare.


But regardless of whatever might be printed in a dictionary, the fact of the matter is that there are no known supernatural events, and there is no credible explanation (and certainly not from you) as to how any such supernatural event could possibly ever occur. So if any dictionaries are printing definitions which appear to imply (as you are claiming) that the supernatural events are actually real, then your dictionaries are "not fit for purpose" and should be chucked in the bin - do not rely on dictionaries to decide what is scientifically credible and what is not scientifically credible in the 21st century.
 
...
But regardless of whatever might be printed in a dictionary, the fact of the matter is that there are no known supernatural events, and there is no credible explanation (and certainly not from you) as to how any such supernatural event could possibly ever occur. So if any dictionaries are printing definitions which appear to imply (as you are claiming) that the supernatural events are actually real, then your dictionaries are "not fit for purpose" and should be chucked in the bin - do not rely on dictionaries to decide what is scientifically credible and what is not scientifically credible in the 21st century.


Time and again we see the same casuistry of redefining the English language to better serve apologetics.

Before science proves a particular bit of the Buybull to be wrong or current moral evolution considers a bit to be immoral, then it is the infallible inerrant literal word of their sky daddy.

When science is starting to prove it wrong, or current morality is debating its ethicality, then the science is just a "theory" and the questioners of the morality are immoral debauchers.

When science has irrefutably proven it a retarded benightedness, or current morality renders it a repugnant imbecility, then the following ruses are deployed in progression, but not necessarily in that order
  • You are misrepresenting the verse you liar you
  • Out of context
  • You must understand the paleo-language
  • You must take it in the context of the paleo-culture
  • Metaphor, allegory
  • Not all Christians believe it
  • It is not even important to most people's faith
  • It depends on what 'is' is and how you define words
  • It is a matter of faith which is outside of the purview of logic and reality
  • Science has been proven to be wrong on many occasions
  • No one can prove the laws of physics and mathematics and logic and reason have not been temporarily nullified in 30 CE Jerusalem
  • Woosh it is over your head
  • Are you sure you know English
  • What is evidence anyway
  • Why are you insulting people you fundamentalist nasty atheist
  • Why do you take it so literally you fuming at the mouth atheist
  • There is nothing worse than a zealous theist except a militant atheist
  • Why are you using yellow highlighting
  • Why do you quote the buybull so much you must be a radical Muslim or Jew
  • You are on the same level of kookiness as holocaust deniers
  • Were you an altar boy and that is why you hate Christians
  • Your faith in atheism is just as irrational as the fundamentalists' faith in their sky daddy heavenly father
  • You must have mental health problems... you need a lobotomy
  • Why do you spend so much time talking about something you do not even think exists
  • It is insane to debate theists; why do you even bother... be like us nice atheists who only incessantly debate against fundamentalist atheists
  • It is pointless to debate theists; we atheists have to let them be unless you are a nasty atheist then we nice atheists will indefatigably bother to debate you as relentlessly as we can

Then they repeat the above all over everywhere all the time as often and in as many venues as possible in the hope they would lay as thick and vastly spread a pall of ignorance as can be managed.
 
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But regardless of whatever might be printed in a dictionary, the fact of the matter is that there are no known supernatural events, and there is no credible explanation (and certainly not from you) as to how any such supernatural event could possibly ever occur. So if any dictionaries are printing definitions which appear to imply (as you are claiming) that the supernatural events are actually real, then your dictionaries are "not fit for purpose" and should be chucked in the bin - do not rely on dictionaries to decide what is scientifically credible and what is not scientifically credible in the 21st century.

Of course there are no known supernatural events or beings, I've been saying that from the beginning. You are arguing a point never made.

And, the fact that the supernatural does not exist is exactly why the dictionary uses "attributed". When we say something about something, it is an attribution.

"IanS is swell fella" is an attribution, even though the meaning is clearly "IanS is a swell fella". Having said that, someone could say "Nonsense, IanS does not exist! IanS is what this person(? another attribution) is called on the internet." Someone could also claim that this is the internet, IanS are just pixels on a screen, not a person at all. While all literally true, certainly the phrase "IanS is a swell fella" is pretty specific and generally understood, the other arguments being nonsensical attempts to gainsay.

All your attribution dancing is likewise. "Supernatural means beyond science" is understood. Yes, they are also just pixels on a screen. Yes, Supernatural is just a word used to describe an attribute of something. It's logical nonsense, though "The supernatural is not necessarily supernatural." undoes meaning and communication.

The supernatural does not exist. When science investigates supernatural claims, guess what will happen? 1) They discover it has mundane causes (In which case, the attribution "supernatural" would now be incorrect; or 2) they find no understood cause, which means it *IS* supernatural (beyond science).

In point of fact, IanS, the reason the word supernatural exists is to identify things that are believed to be beyond science. Science has been able to say "No, some of those things are well within science" At the instant this becomes true, 'supernatural' no longer applies, is no longer attributed to the claim, as it is now within science.

[Here's the part that will engender spittle filled responses] Others Science hasn't been able to touch, which puts them squarely into supernatural, beyond science. It also puts these things squarely into fiction, as those remaining supernatural events can't even be verified.

So, clearly the supernatural does not exist (still). Any supernatural claims are either FALSE or FICTION. Like the supernatural, fiction is outside of science. Of course, if any of the remaining supernatural claims were true, then they are still beyond science, by definition.

Of course, I may not have typed the above, since it is attributed to me.
 
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