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Bush: work longer hours

Cleon

King of the Pod People
Joined
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Messages
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Jeb Bush, apparently coming from the Walter Mondale school of campaign talking points, has decided that "people need to work longer hours."

As a software engineer in the video game industry, I kindly invite "JEB!" to kiss my hairy yellow ass.
 
Yep, this is the left-wing version of "you didn't build that."

I wouldn't say that. Obama's meaning was clear when put in context, while Jeb's was not IMO. Even so, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt regarding what he meant to say (not that American workers were lazy, but that we need to get more part-time workers to full-time work).
 
(That) means we have to be a lot more productive. Workforce participation has to rise from its all-time modern lows. It means that people need to work longer hours and through their productivity gain more income for their families. That's the only way we are going to get out of this rut that we're in.

His meaning was pretty clear; we're just not putting in enough hours.

If this was about people working part-time jobs, well, the fact that they're not getting full-time hours isn't exactly their decision.
 
Found more of the original exchange.

BUSH: My aspiration for the country and I believe we can achieve it, is 4 percent growth as far as the eye can see. Which means we have to be a lot more productive, workforce participation has to rise from its all-time modern lows. It means that people need to work longer hours and, through their productivity, gain more income for their families. That's the only way we're going to get out of this rut that we're in.

QUESTION: To keep us from taking it out of context, what you meant to say — when you say more hours you mean full-time work.

BUSH: Given the opportunity to work. Yeah, absolutely.

QUESTION: Not that a full time guy or somebody working two jobs needs to be working even more time.

BUSH: Absolutely not. Their incomes need to grow. It’s not going to grow in an environment where the costs of doing business are so extraordinarily high here. Health care costs are rising. In many places the cost of doing business is extraordinarily high and the net result of that is that business start up rates are at an all time low. Work force participation rates are low. If anyone is celebrating this anemic recovery, then they are totally out of touch. The simple fact is people are really struggling. So giving people a chance to work longer hours has got to be part of the answer. If not, you are going to see people lose hope. And that’s where we are today.

Linky.

Then followup from OP link:

In a statement, a Bush aide clarified that he was referring to the underemployed and part-time workers: “Under President Obama, we have the lowest workforce participation rate since 1977, and too many Americans are falling behind. Only Washington Democrats could be out-of-touch enough to criticize giving more Americans the ability to work, earn a paycheck, and make ends meet.”

Bush commented on this issue speaking before the Detroit Economic Council back in February.

“For several years now, they have been recklessly degrading the value of work, the incentive to work, and the rewards of work. We have seen them cut the definition of a full-time job from 40 to 30 hours, slashing the ability of paycheck earners to make ends meet," he said. "We have seen them create welfare programs and tax rules that punish people with lost benefits and higher taxes for moving up those first few rungs of the economic ladder.”

So:

Regulation hampering job creators + welfare disincentivising work -> Increased part-time work + decreased labour participation -> Economic stagnation

He went a long way to explain it out of order. I cannot take it seriously as a proposal for 4% growth eternally. Rather underwhelming. Has he always been a poor speaker?

Ignoring the classic Conservative arguments, the new one is about labour participation. The problem with this is that there are structural causes from demographic changes. It was predicted to decline through 2020 in 2006. As of 2014:

Combining the results from these different approaches, our overall assessment is that
much – but not all – of the decline in the labor force participation rate since 2007 is structural in
nature. As a result, while policymakers can view some of the current low level of the
participation rate as indicative of labor market slack beyond that indicated by the unemployment
rate alone, they should not expect the participation rate to show a substantial increase from
current levels as labor market conditions continue to improve. Indeed, as we show in the final
section of the paper, projections from our model point to further declines in the trend
participation rate over the next decade or so.

Linky (PDF).

Clinton's (Unpaid Social Media Intern's) response with the EPI "productivity/compensation" chart is what I will call "Facebook Economics". It is shared, looks pretty and shocking, confirms our expectations, and is bunk. Here is a good breakdown.
 
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I'm not defending Bush here, but the old timers I knew often held more than one job.

My old man for years was a full time LEO, owned the first indoor range in our area and was a licensed firearms dealer and was a gunsmith.

One of my friends father worked full time for the USPS, the family owned a restaurant and he did terrazzo tile work on the weekends.

I know it sounds like that skit from Living Color:



But that's the way some folks got ahead after the war - I've worked two full time jobs at the same time for as long as I could hack it, and I've worked a full time job while I had a business on the side, but no way I could keep up with the old guys.

Bush sounds to me like he's working the "only lazy people don't get ahead" angle.
 
Jeb Bush, apparently coming from the Walter Mondale school of campaign talking points, has decided that "people need to work longer hours."

As a software engineer in the video game industry, I kindly invite "JEB!" to kiss my hairy yellow ass.

I'm a Democrat, but frankly this kind of game of gotcha by taking a quote out of context and twisting its meaning just makes me roll my eyes. What he's talking about is freaking people who have part-time jobs but want to work full time!
Every month the BLS releases a jobs report in which they report the unemployment rate, the number of new jobs gained or lost, etc. One thing they also count is people who have part-time jobs but want to work full time:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
The number of persons employed part time for economic reasons (sometimes referred to
as involuntary part-time workers), at 6.5 million, changed little in June. These
individuals, who would have preferred full-time employment, were working part time
because their hours had been cut back or because they were unable to find a full-time
job. (See table A-8.)
So yeah, there are 6.5 million Americans (at least) who want to work longer hours
It also means all the people who don't have a job but want one. This is pure partisan gotcha nonsense.

Yep, this is the left-wing version of "you didn't build that."
Exactly. A quote taken out of context and twisted to make the candidate seem "out of touch".

Found more of the original exchange.

BUSH: My aspiration for the country and I believe we can achieve it, is 4 percent growth as far as the eye can see. Which means we have to be a lot more productive, workforce participation has to rise from its all-time modern lows. It means that people need to work longer hours and, through their productivity, gain more income for their families. That's the only way we're going to get out of this rut that we're in.

QUESTION: To keep us from taking it out of context, what you meant to say — when you say more hours you mean full-time work.

BUSH: Given the opportunity to work. Yeah, absolutely.

QUESTION: Not that a full time guy or somebody working two jobs needs to be working even more time.

BUSH: Absolutely not. Their incomes need to grow. It’s not going to grow in an environment where the costs of doing business are so extraordinarily high here. Health care costs are rising. In many places the cost of doing business is extraordinarily high and the net result of that is that business start up rates are at an all time low. Work force participation rates are low. If anyone is celebrating this anemic recovery, then they are totally out of touch. The simple fact is people are really struggling. So giving people a chance to work longer hours has got to be part of the answer. If not, you are going to see people lose hope. And that’s where we are today.

Linky.

Thank you for putting this in its proper context. Clearly not what Democrats are trying to spin it as.

He went a long way to explain it out of order. I cannot take it seriously as a proposal for 4% growth eternally. Rather underwhelming.

That is a legitimate criticism. To be fair, he describes the 4% growth goal as an "aspiration", but words are cheap. Campaign promises are cheap. Hey, who isn't for 4% growth or better? Structurally, it's unlikely to do that on a sustained basis. Scott Walker promised that if he was elected, he would create 250,000 new jobs in Wisconsin in his first term. He fell short by about half.

The final report is in on Gov. Scott Walker’s first-term promise to create 250,000 jobs. He fell short by about half of the promised amount.

Throughout his successful 2010 campaign for governor, Walker repeated in speeches and campaign ads the promise that private-sector employers would add 250,000 jobs in his first four years. Since he took office in January 2011, PolitiFact Wisconsin tracked the monthly job tally.

. . .

On May 21, 2015, the state released the full year QCEW report for 2014. It said employers created 35,736 jobs in 2014.

Combined with the three previous years, that brought the total to 127,549 jobs for Walker’s first four year term. That’s slightly more than half of his original promise.

I see no reason to take Bush's talk of 4% growth any more seriously than Walker's promise to create 250,000 new jobs. Something in the 2%-3% range would be more realistic, but the truth is that whatever the economy does, the president probably is an insignificant factor in that. Presidents and governors either get lucky with the economy or they don't. It's a roll of the dice. They get undue credit if the economy does well during their term of office and they get blamed if it doesn't.

So my critique is the same: it's an empty promise (or "aspiration" to be fair). Still, if he does happen to get elected I think it's fair to treat it as a campaign promise that will almost certainly not be fulfilled.
(ETA: Just as a by-the-way, economic growth under his father and brother was about 2.1% and 2.2% respectively.)
 
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As a software engineer in the video game industry, I kindly invite "JEB!" to kiss my hairy yellow ass.
I prefer "shiny metal ass" for a higher hilarity rating.... but meh... pointless when the quotation in question was quote mined.
This mistake was easily avoidable.... is it too much to ask during an election year to "try" and read the original statements and consider the context?

That is a legitimate criticism. To be fair, he describes the 4% growth goal as an "aspiration", but words are cheap. Campaign promises are cheap. Hey, who isn't for 4% growth or better? Structurally, it's unlikely to do that on a sustained basis. Scott Walker promised that if he was elected, he would create 250,000 new jobs in Wisconsin in his first term. He fell short by about half.
Agreed... I doubt you would need to be told to expect loads of these promises to come out nevertheless this term... let a lone surpised
 
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Does Jeb have a way to get the costs of doing business down? Like does he have a plan to make health care not such a burden?
 
While what he said was taken out of context, the policies Jeb proposes places them right back into the context of "people need to work harder."
 
Does Jeb have a way to get the costs of doing business down? Like does he have a plan to make health care not such a burden?

Nail on the head. I work with tons of small business owners and startups and the one thing all of them complain about is the high cost of healthcare for themselves and their employees. Most of them have a spouse who has a corporate or government job just to maintain health insurance as they are trying to get their company off the ground.

It just seems so obvious that single payor healthcare would be cheaper and free up so much economic activity. We pay more for less and then are proud of how great our system is for those who can afford it. What maroons we are.
 
Nail on the head. I work with tons of small business owners and startups and the one thing all of them complain about is the high cost of healthcare for themselves and their employees. Most of them have a spouse who has a corporate or government job just to maintain health insurance as they are trying to get their company off the ground.

It just seems so obvious that single payor healthcare would be cheaper and free up so much economic activity. We pay more for less and then are proud of how great our system is for those who can afford it. What maroons we are.


I make that comment fairly often. Single payer Health Insurance would be a BOON to small and new businesses. Those things that conservatives claim to support.

Small businesses would be better able to compete for employees, and new business owners wouldn't have to worry about their own health care. Everyone is simply covered.
 
I make that comment fairly often. Single payer Health Insurance would be a BOON to small and new businesses. Those things that conservatives claim to support.

But it would gut the profits of the insurance industry and I understand they're pretty heavy lobbyists not to mention political contributors. :p

Not trying to sound commie here, but IMO... just like owning a bank, once you reach mid-size and above, being an insurer is practically a license to print money. :mad:
 
I'm a Democrat, but frankly this kind of game of gotcha by taking a quote out of context and twisting its meaning just makes me roll my eyes. What he's talking about is freaking people who have part-time jobs but want to work full time!

If you say so. The fact that there are way too many part time workers doesn't mean that's what Jeb was referring to. He said that's what he meant ex-post-facto. I'm curious how you think what he said was taken out of context. What part of his discussion did we miss where a reasonable person would be lead to believe that he was talking about part time workers? In fairness, I've only been able to find a :30 second clip, but I don't think it's clear one way or the other what he actually meant. There's certainly a lack of context, but that doesn't necessarily mean the quote was taken out of context if that context would actually reinforce that he was not indeed talking about the underemployed and part time workers. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm not so sure you're right either.
 
If you say so. The fact that there are way too many part time workers doesn't mean that's what Jeb was referring to. He said that's what he meant ex-post-facto. I'm curious how you think what he said was taken out of context. What part of his discussion did we miss where a reasonable person would be lead to believe that he was talking about part time workers? In fairness, I've only been able to find a :30 second clip, but I don't think it's clear one way or the other what he actually meant. There's certainly a lack of context, but that doesn't necessarily mean the quote was taken out of context if that context would actually reinforce that he was not indeed talking about the underemployed and part time workers. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm not so sure you're right either.

Read the post you quoted more carefully.
 
I'm a Democrat, but frankly this kind of game of gotcha by taking a quote out of context and twisting its meaning just makes me roll my eyes. <snip>
Good post. Cheap political tricks. It's SOP but I still don't like it. There's more than enough to nail Bush with.
 

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