Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Why don't you write him and ask to whom he gave the order. When the only source for something is someone that benefits from it (in his mind) is the source and the thing didn't happen I don't believe it. Other cops made the point they weren't both ordered and when she arrived the cops were upset.

So when they ask for Raf they meant both and when Amanda said don't tell the press in her email she meant tell them. Dietrology? :p

Why don't you? I believe him. Also, the idea it benefits him is you editorializing.

The fact is it very hard to believe the police in this case Grinder. It's very clear that there isn't a coherent chain of command with at least 3 jurisdictions involved. I don't speak Italian and I don't think Giobbi speaks English. So, I'll leave this up to you.
 
What is missing from this case is a true believer cop, someone who is willing to write up his/her own account of what went on. Heck, even the JonBenét Ramsey case had detective Steve Thomas willing to go public with his theories....

Where are all these people? Where is Napoleoni writing out that she got it right and here's why? Where's Mignini giving a **detailed** reason why he got it right? Oh wait, he had TWO trials to do that and failed miserably.

Where is de Felice clearing up the record as to what he'd said? Cannot Marco Chiacchiera give an accounting of why his opinion (acc. to Follain) was ignored and led to disaster?

All we have is cut-and-paste authors like Andrew Hodges.....

Where is the cop that Raf claims told him he'd better get a lawyer. Did she give him a card?

It is truly amazing that if 1/10 of the misconduct alleged by the PIP/FOA were true that not one cop or a confident of a cop has told/sold their story to the DailyMail or Oggi.

When you predicted because of a secret source the interrogation recordings would be released "sooner than later" I predicted they wouldn't be, and they haven't as it is now way later, because someone would have sold that story by then.

Vixen uses Hodges and Barbie and Vogt you use Follain, when convenient, or Dempsey or Nina and the thread goes on.
 
Why don't you? I believe him. Also, the idea it benefits him is you editorializing.

The fact is it very hard to believe the police in this case Grinder. It's very clear that there isn't a coherent chain of command with at least 3 jurisdictions involved. I don't speak Italian and I don't think Giobbi speaks English. So, I'll leave this up to you.

He made the statement when the case closed meme was flying high. He was the one that knew if they called them both in they would buckle and the case would open like a flower in Spring.

Have you bothered to read his statement?

Did one of his men speak up when the PLE said only Raf was called in?

As Katy_DD said (paraphrased) why would you believe this blowhard?

He put her picture on his wall of shame before the trial. Enuf said.
 
Did he accuse them of misconduct? Why would they not say they called them both in since you contend it was ordered and they both showed up?

The only reasonable analysis is that Giobbi is full of himself and wanted to take credit.

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that once the order was given to bring them both in that their strategy was to separate them. They might have thought that Amanda was the controlling one in their relationship and that the further Raf was away from her the easier it would be to "get him to crack". Once he did, they would call or bring Amanda in. That would explain why some of the officers were ticked off when Amanda showed up with Raf.
 
Did he accuse them of misconduct? Why would they not say they called them both in since you contend it was ordered and they both showed up?

The only reasonable analysis is that Giobbi is full of himself and wanted to take credit.

Who's reasoning Grinder? Yours? This could easily have been a misunderstanding. People miscommunicate all the time. Would this really be something worthy of an official complaint? I don't think so.
 
He made the statement when the case closed meme was flying high. He was the one that knew if they called them both in they would buckle and the case would open like a flower in Spring.

Have you bothered to read his statement?

Did one of his men speak up when the PLE said only Raf was called in?

As Katy_DD said (paraphrased) why would you believe this blowhard?

He put her picture on his wall of shame before the trial. Enuf said.

I have little doubt that Giobbi is a glory hound. I have read his statement. So?
 
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Amanda texted Mez to try to arrange a Halloween evening. Mez wrote back, I'm going out with friends. What are your plans? xx Love you.

Amanda then sent her text after text, which Mez skillfully avoided. It is unmistakeable Mez snubbed her. Amanda was left with nothing to do in her cat custume and even had to wander the streets alone.

Sure, Mez was too nice to be rude, but it's clear she didn't want to invite Amanda. As Amanda was hinting heavily and asking outright, Mez could easily have told her where her group of friends were going.

As for the kisses and love you's, that is a very girly thing, and means absolutely nothing. Luv you, Hunxx
I'll skip over the part where you misrepresented the text messages since others demolished that bs.

As for the use of love and kisses being just a girly thing. Nonsense. Those kisses are signs of endearment. While it doesn't have to mean a lot, it certainly shows that Meredith was acting friendly towards Amanda. So either Meredith genuinely likes Amanda or she is acting and is a big phoney. Which is it Vixen?
 
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How many police from Giobbi's unit came with him from Rome to Perugia? Did police investigators from other units from Rome or elsewhere come, too? I am asking about police investigators, not scientific police and their support techs.


I recall reading that 5 officers came from Rome, but I don't have the citation handy.

I am curious to know where they stayed in Perugia. In hotels, or are there guest rooms, bunk rooms, or just extra cots in the police headquarters? I note from former Chicago police detective Paul Ciolino's comment on his visit to the Questura that it is a large, modern building with state-of-the-art equipment.


Ya, a new building with built-in recording equipment, but everyone forgot to flick the 'record' switch ...or rather, if you believe Mignini, they couldn't afford the 3 cents in electricity those recordings would have required.

Mignini was apparently sacked out upstairs for awhile, but he eventually came down to the control room, and eventually he went into Amanda's interrogation room.

ETA:
I am trying to get a handle on what is known about the numbers of police working this case, how many were from Rome, and how many were actually on duty or immediately available as the Nov 5/6 night interrogations commenced or developed.


The Nov 7th media account pasted below has some of that info.

How many police investigators/detectives/managers involved in this case are known to have been there on duty in the station around 10 - 10:30 pm when Raffaele was called in? How many women from Napoleoni's flying squad were known to be there to deal with Amanda when she was taken into an interrogation room at 10:30? How many showed up shortly thereafter?


Based upon the slander accusations of Amanda (that a female officer had struck her), these three female officers were involved that night during Amanda's interrogation, but there were also male interrogators involved that night:

Perugian officers Monica Napoleoni, Lorena Zuaringi, and Rita Ficarra.

Officer Daniele Moscatelli was also there that night (male, female?), but that officer interrogated Raffaele.

Was any other interpreter there that night other than police interpreter Anna Donimo?


In the previous days the police had been using quite a few interpreters in dealing with Amanda and translating her phone and email communications, but they never provided Amanda with an official interpreter as their laws required.

One Italian cop, Fabio D'Astolto, had been born in Australia and he was fluent in English. Why he didn't interpret for Amanda that night when he had been doing it for several days already, I don't know?

Maybe, they felt the Aussie cop was too friendly with Amanda and that they wanted a firmer hand? Anna Donimo may have had the special "mediator" skills they wanted to apply to Amanda that night?

"By Saturday, (Nov. 3) authorities were bugging every phone call placed and received by the young lovers."

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/22332240/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/#.VZ_bNMZVhBc

"There were three interpreters employed during the investigation (though I have not researched enough to know exact details of when they were used); Anna Donnino, Aida Colantone and Fabio D'Astolto.

"Anna Donnino was called the night of 5/6 November, D'Astolto is an English-speaking Perugian officer (not sure if he is an official interpreter) and Colantone is an interpreter with the Ministry of Interior.
"

http://viewfromwilmington.blogspot.com/2010/08/eighteen-claims-about-edda-mellass.html

She said in her testimony in court that she lives in the countryside almost an hour's drive from Perugia and got a call just before midnight to come in as things were developing with Amanda. She said she was in her night clothes when she got the call. She had to get dressed, drive to Perugia, and upon arriving at the Questura would logically have gone to the control room where Giobi was monitoring the interrogations to be briefed so she knew what was going on with Amanda and what the game plan was before she went to join in in the interrogation room. So I place her there at 1 am or shortly thereafter. Meaning that Napoleoni and other police had already interrogated Amanda in Italian and poor English ? for 2-1/4 hours before Donino joined the interrogation.


Donnino may have already been scheduled to come in around 1:00 to 2:00 am, but when Amanda showed up early, they may have told Donnino to come right away. Frank Sfarzo once had a posting about the Anna Donnino shenanigans, but it's been awhile since I read it.

This media account of the 'CASE CLOSED' media event of Nov 7th lists some of the players and which organizations they belonged to:

COURIER DELL’UMBRIA, November 7, 2007
[ ]
PERUGIA - The first telephone calls received by the superintendent were those of the consul general Florence Moira McFarlane, the mayor Renato Locchi, the rector Francesco Bistoni.

Then also congratulated the Minister Giuliano Amato who cited, among the successes of the past days, the arrest of Salvatore Lo Piccolo, the head of Cosa Nostra in Palermo and the arrest of three suspected
responsabli murder of Perugia.

"Our mood swings - reveals the commissioner Arturo De Felice - between the satisfaction of having did our job and sadness for the death of Meredith, a girl morally spotless.

"Next to the superintendent Fabio Giobbi (came from - Rome, investigator DAC), the head of Mobile Domenico Giacinto Profazio, the head of the SCO, Marco Waffles, the head of the territorial control Letizia Tomaselli, chief Polpost Filippo Bartolozzi, the substitute Commissioner Monica Napoleoni.

"Shall I have to congratulate all of our men and women (the interpreters, note) that in four days and four nights, with professionalism and moral commitment, they have solved the case.

These days - he explains De Felice - we felt the weight, pressure, of the population, the city, the mass media. Everyone wanted a definite answer and immediate, fast. There seems to have given an answer ... almost immediately. "

The comments in the British press the "turning point" in the investigation
The truth of the tabloids C'èc hi speaks openly of "aggresseoi snes suale group" and those of "confession" by parted ellac oinquilina American Enrico Del Sero

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Assassinata-dai-suoi-amici.pdf
 
Where is the cop that Raf claims told him he'd better get a lawyer. Did she give him a card?

It is truly amazing that if 1/10 of the misconduct alleged by the PIP/FOA were true that not one cop or a confident of a cop has told/sold their story to the DailyMail or Oggi.

When you predicted because of a secret source the interrogation recordings would be released "sooner than later" I predicted they wouldn't be, and they haven't as it is now way later, because someone would have sold that story by then.

Vixen uses Hodges and Barbie and Vogt you use Follain, when convenient, or Dempsey or Nina and the thread goes on.
Probably Omertà, all of it. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that when one weighs the Euros made for an exposé compared with, "I have to live in this town," it's no contest.

Also, it's not as if this case is not decided. It is over, and it is over with the good guys winning and the bad guys up for a whole heap of trouble - depending on the remaining power of the PM's (Hellmann's words) to plug up the dyke and/or negotiate a graceful exit which does not cause the whole system to collapse.

You are quite correct - with regard to the existence of the interrogation tapes (Raffaele's, Amanda's, Patrick's AND Guede's) the things which argue against their existence is that no one has come out of the pack with them as their get out of jail free card.

Yet with the March 27th exonerations, even they have become completely secondary. We already know what happened in those interrogations; at least can make very reasonable guesses given the March 27th outcome.

The case boils down to what the poster way upthread said. The "case against Knox and Sollecito" was totally judicially generated, meaning it did not come from a dispassionate, independent look at the claimed evidence.

The bra-clasp "evidence", for instance, only became damning to Raffaele because of suspect-centric analysis of it in the lab, and suspect-centric decisions made about it in Nencini's court. (Massei can be excused, only in that he did have an independent analysis of it in front of him - because he didn't allow one, his own version of creating evidence judicially.)

So.....

Where is the cop who said that Raffaele should get a lawyer? The benefit of having that cop come forward now pales in significance (since March 27) when compared to the fact that neither he nor Amanda were allowed lawyers, until minutes before their first appearance.

Where is the clerk in the Questura who holds the key to the desk which has the interrogation tapes safely locked away? With all due, all of the interest in that is last year's news - like I say, we now know in general terms what happened in those interrogations, plural. In general enough terms.

Can you make a case for why those tapes would even be interesting at this point in time? I doubt you can.
 
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I have little doubt that Gibbs is a glory hound. I have read his statement. So?

Gibbs is with NCIS. It wasn't a statement rather testimony. I said statement to see if you'd pick up on it.

If he didn't make the testimony claim would you still argue he called them both in, which as we know didn't happen.

You believe whatever helps your PI POV. Diaz, CT, Giobbi and the rest.

Remember when it was in vogue on the PI side to say the PLE recognized RG's MO and one of the pieces was that CT talked with Nappy the night of his home invasion because of how Nina wrote it up? Well she interviewed much later for the murder case. I always said it made no sense that the head of the Flying Squad would be taking mundane police reports and guess what?

Giobbi's puffery works for you so you buy it, if it didn't you wouldn't.

Vixen's text message scenario doesn't work for you so throw it out. John Kercher's account doesn't work and you throw it out even though the british girls back him up.
But Giobbi, ah Giobbi a total lying pig but on this you believe him.

As Katy_dd p[ointed out tehre were clear reasons they called in Raf and as she said they were done with Shaky
 
Can you make a case for why those tapes would even be interesting at this point in time? I doubt you can.

Wow. Just. Wow

First of all there were 7 years before March 27 and certainly no one knew they would be found not guilty.

If a tape of Amanda being abused with head slaps and all, including them suggesting what was "correct" were made available US TV would pay easy 6 figures if not 7.

Rather than admit they were never coming available ever much less sooner than later and that your "source" was full of it you come up with the above spiel. Funny
 
All but one expert who testified in this case agrees that Kercher's murder is consistent with a single attacker.

Additionally, the absence of any physical evidence against Amanda in Kercher's room rules her out. Similarly, an inconsistent appearance of Raffaele's sub-source DNA in a multiple mixed sample, without the presence of any other physical trace of him in the room, rules him out too.

I continue to challenge you to find one independent CSI or forensic scientist unconnected with the case who would be prepared to argue from the forensic evidence in this case that anyone other than Guede was present in the room with Kercher when she was killed. Not one, in eight years, has come forward to do so.

Kauffer, you overlooked that distinguished commentator Dr. Mull. How about the lady who works as a receptionist at a British hair salon? She holds herself out as an expert on DNA evidence. She probably knows a guilty hair follicle when she sees one! :D
 
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Gibbs is with NCIS. It wasn't a statement rather testimony. I said statement to see if you'd pick up on it.

If he didn't make the testimony claim would you still argue he called them both in, which as we know didn't happen.

You believe whatever helps your PI POV. Diaz, CT, Giobbi and the rest.

Remember when it was in vogue on the PI side to say the PLE recognized RG's MO and one of the pieces was that CT talked with Nappy the night of his home invasion because of how Nina wrote it up? Well she interviewed much later for the murder case. I always said it made no sense that the head of the Flying Squad would be taking mundane police reports and guess what?

Giobbi's puffery works for you so you buy it, if it didn't you wouldn't.

Vixen's text message scenario doesn't work for you so throw it out. John Kercher's account doesn't work and you throw it out even though the british girls back him up.
But Giobbi, ah Giobbi a total lying pig but on this you believe him.

As Katy_dd p[ointed out tehre were clear reasons they called in Raf and as she said they were done with Shaky

The Gibbs reference is the result of the auto correct on this Samsung tablet...but I like it :thumbsup:

Your argument that I'm just being selective is nonsense. I'm not misrepresenting the facts. Are you saying that Giobbi didn't say he ordered both of them to be picked up? No, you are saying he's lying because this isn't the official story from the Perugian authorities. Maybe you're right. Maybe this is just puffery. But you could just as easily be wrong. I do think it's telling however that they had that many detectives working that evening.
 
Do you think it was "nice" to put up a card advertising Mez' room as vacant, using her date of death as the phone number?

I recognise that writing!

I was going to reply but thought better of it. I don't want to spend another week sitting under the piano. My kindergarden teacher in Cambridge did that to me once already. :p
 
How many police from Giobbi's unit came with him from Rome to Perugia? Did police investigators from other units from Rome or elsewhere come, too? I am asking about police investigators, not scientific police and their support techs.

I am curious to know where they stayed in Perugia. In hotels, or are there guest rooms, bunk rooms, or just extra cots in the police headquarters? I note from former Chicago police detective Paul Ciolino's comment on his visit to the Questura that it is a large, modern building with state-of-the-art equipment.

ETA:
I am trying to get a handle on what is known about the numbers of police working this case, how many we're from Rome, and how many we're actually on duty or immediately available as the Nov 5/6 night interrogations commenced or developed.

How many police investigators/detectives/managers involved in this case are known to have been there on duty in the station around 10 - 10:30 pm when Raffaele was called in? How many women from Napoleoni's flying squad were known to be there to deal with Amanda when she was taken into an interrogation room at 10:30? How many showed up shortly thereafter?

Was any other interpreter there that night other than police interpreter Anna Donimo? She said in her testimony in court that she lives in the countryside almost an hour's drive from Perugia and got a call just before midnight to come in as things were developing with Amanda. She said she was in her night clothes when she got the call. She had to get dressed, drive to Perugia, and upon arriving at the Questura would logically have gone to the control room where Giobi was monitoring the interrogations to be briefed so she knew what was going on with Amanda and what the game plan was before she went to join in in the interrogation room. So I place her there at 1 am or shortly thereafter. Meaning that Napoleoni and other police had already interrogated Amanda in Italian and poor English ? for 2-1/4 hours before Donino joined the interrogation.

According to the Record of the Execution of Arrest form, there were 7 (seven) police, including Giobbi, who assisted in bringing in that allegedly dangerous criminal, Amanda Knox, from the SCO in Rome.
 
Bill Williams said:
Can you make a case for why those tapes would even be interesting at this point in time?

Wow. Just. Wow

First of all there were 7 years before March 27 and certainly no one knew they would be found not guilty.

If a tape of Amanda being abused with head slaps and all, including them suggesting what was "correct" were made available US TV would pay easy 6 figures if not 7.

Rather than admit they were never coming available ever much less sooner than later and that your "source" was full of it you come up with the above spiel. Funny

Ok, I admit it. I did not provide the modifier I should have.

Please let me try again: "Can you make a case for why those tapes would even be interesting at this point in time, in terms of the pairs' guilt or innocence?"

You also forget my own atonement many months ago, when I admitted that my three sources for this, were probably only one source to begin with. This was because two of the sources had as their source my first source - which in the genetics of the thing makes it still a single source.

But I'll not dig out where I admitted I was wrong and presented my claim with undue glee. You already gloated over that one, so I'' have only the satisfaction of you ferreting it out so you can gloat anew....

The point being, post-exoneration those tapes prove nothing, really that we don't already know. Both Amanda and Raffaele have given first hand accounts of their own respective interrogations, and if the tapes existed they'd only be trotted out to disprove Raffaele and Amanda. Yet, what would even disproving (at this point) Raffaele and Amanda accomplish?

Which brings me back to my question: "Can you make a case for why those tapes would even be interesting at this point in time?" And by that I do not mean that it would be of prurient interest in a US news show (for about a day). Or that it might make someone some money.

Can we at least answer the question before bringing up something I've already admitted to?
 
Gibbs is with NCIS. It wasn't a statement rather testimony. I said statement to see if you'd pick up on it.

If he didn't make the testimony claim would you still argue he called them both in, which as we know didn't happen.

You believe whatever helps your PI POV. Diaz, CT, Giobbi and the rest.

Remember when it was in vogue on the PI side to say the PLE recognized RG's MO and one of the pieces was that CT talked with Nappy the night of his home invasion because of how Nina wrote it up? Well she interviewed much later for the murder case. I always said it made no sense that the head of the Flying Squad would be taking mundane police reports and guess what?

Giobbi's puffery works for you so you buy it, if it didn't you wouldn't.

Vixen's text message scenario doesn't work for you so throw it out. John Kercher's account doesn't work and you throw it out even though the british girls back him up.
But Giobbi, ah Giobbi a total lying pig but on this you believe him.

As Katy_dd p[ointed out tehre were clear reasons they called in Raf and as she said they were done with Shaky


Let's recap this. By Nov 5th clearly Amanda & Raffaele & Lumumba were under suspicion, and the authorities were under extreme pressure to close the case, which is why additional police assets were brought in from Rome.

Amanda was under suspicion early on for a variety of reasons, but on Nov 5th they still didn't have a shred of evidence to implicate her, other than they had found 5 African hairs in Meredith's bedroom, and Amanda worked for an African man, Lumumba.

Raffaele was under suspicion due to his alibi for Amanda. Unfortunately, on Nov 5th Raffaele had worn shoes to the station on that eventful night which had sole patterns very similar to Guede's shoes that had left bloody footprints at the scene - bad luck wearing those shoes.

Raffaele had also carried a pen-knife to the station that was of the type that had inflicted Meredith's fatal wounds, which was both bad luck and stupidity.

Mignini's arrest warrant of Nov 6th mentioned Raffaele's shoes and knife (document previously posted here), and while those items would eventually be found to not be involved in the murder, they were something, but they only involved Raffaele and NOT Amanda.

The cops knew Amanda's mom was arriving on the morning of Nov 6th, and the police were positive that Amanda & Raffaele & Lumumba were involved, but other than Raffaele's shoes and knife, the police had nada against Amanda, except for her associations with Raffaele and Lumumba.

If Amanda's mom arrived and took her under her wing before the police forced a confession out of Amanda, would the police suspicions and Raffael's shoes and the African hairs (thought to be Lumumba's) be enough to keep Amanda from legally leaving Italy?

The police may have been able to stop Amanda from leaving Italy on Nov 6th, but once mom arrived, squeezing a confession from Amanda with an attorney present would be highly problematic, and at that point they had zero credible evidence against her.

If mom arrived without a confession from Amanda, I don't pretend to know whether the police could have legally forced Amanda to remain in Italy until the forensics was returned and hopefully (from their perspective) implicated Amanda, which (again hopefully) in a few days would have given the police grounds to arrest Amanda.

You keep denying what was clearly the situation on Nov 5th. Likely, because you're stubborn and you don't want to concede a point, even though you do feel that Amanda & Raffaele were railroaded and innocent. I can understand being stubborn and arguing a point - been there, done that, myself.

Nevertheless, on Nov 5th it must be conceded by even you that the police had to be worried that their prime suspect was in danger of flying home with her mom on Nov 6th, which would have created a messy extradition battle if that were allowed to happen, assuming any forensics later implicated Amanda, and at that point I feel the police were very confidant that the forensics would indeed eventually support their suspicions and directly implicate Amanda.

To keep Amanda in Italy pending the forensics results, the cleanest solution from the police perspective would be to force a confession from Amanda before her mom arrived to complicate matters. They needed it, and they got it (more or less).

As Hellmann pointed out, Amanda never confessed to murdering Meredith Kercher, but what they (illegally) got that night was enough to convince a judge to incarcerate Amanda pending trial, so problem solved.
 
I've been trying to convey much of this. People on both sides of this case will take one piece out of an article or a person's statement even if most everything else is obviously false or goes against their POV in which case they call those thiongs lies.

I noticed the work they did on Hicham Khiri (has that been translated?) even to the extent of checking his alibi. I think he was a key suspect until the 4th.

I see nothing unusual in the cops being at the station late at night trying to solve the case. The guys from Rome had no place to go anyway.

Strange that people here say that calling in Amanda later would still be early but at the same time say it was unusual for the cops to be there.

I didn't and wouldn't argue that 10 is late because I looked at other interview times.

But all of this is nit picking. I think that, although some of the details are unclear, the behavior of the cops shows a couple of clear things:

* Amanda was suspected from the first or second day
* The cops stepped up the intensity of their interrogation of both Raff and Amanda on the evening of the 5th
* There was a large number of police assembled at the Questura that evening to participate in an interrogation -- they didn't need 12 or 13 of them participating to question them. This was a plan to get them to crack that night

I think the above points are clear. We can debate why they chose that evening to do it: Was it Edda Mellas' arrival from the US? Was it increasing pressure to solve the case for various reasons? Or did it just fit the cops' vacation schedule? I don't know for sure, although some ideas make more sense than others. I guess it matters if people are trying to make a case for some grand conspiracy, but to me it looks like standard police work -- done badly, but standard.

If Amanda and Raffaele had actually been guilty, no one would be talking about the now famous interrogation, even if it was done in an unlawful way. But they are not guilty, and, much as the whole investigation/interrogation was poorly done, where it really went off the rails is when the forensics came in, there was no proof AK and RS were even present that night, and they decided to prosecute anyway.
 
Ok, I admit it. I did not provide the modifier I should have.

Please let me try again: "Can you make a case for why those tapes would even be interesting at this point in time, in terms of the pairs' guilt or innocence?"

You also forget my own atonement many months ago, when I admitted that my three sources for this, were probably only one source to begin with. This was because two of the sources had as their source my first source - which in the genetics of the thing makes it still a single source.

But I'll not dig out where I admitted I was wrong and presented my claim with undue glee. You already gloated over that one, so I'' have only the satisfaction of you ferreting it out so you can gloat anew....

The point being, post-exoneration those tapes prove nothing, really that we don't already know. Both Amanda and Raffaele have given first hand accounts of their own respective interrogations, and if the tapes existed they'd only be trotted out to disprove Raffaele and Amanda. Yet, what would even disproving (at this point) Raffaele and Amanda accomplish?

Which brings me back to my question: "Can you make a case for why those tapes would even be interesting at this point in time?" And by that I do not mean that it would be of prurient interest in a US news show (for about a day). Or that it might make someone some money.

Can we at least answer the question before bringing up something I've already admitted to?

If the tapes emerged, they would instantly resolve all aspects of the case before the ECHR in a manner which would likely quicken Amanda's annulment of her guilty verdict. Additionally, they would resolve the further actions both criminal and civil against her, quiet Lumumba's grandstanding for good and provide the moral victory, doubtless Amanda would welcome alongside her legal victory.

I think Grinder is probably right about their commercial value; interestingly, when the ECHR communicates the case to Italy, it will probably respond with some sort of defence. Amanda's attorney will then weigh in again. I feel sure that the question of the availability of records related to the interrogations will arise in this correspondence. The Italian agents at the ECHR may well be tasked by the court to obtain what records might exist - tapes or the contemporaneous notes that we know from testimony were made. Indeed, the Italian justice minister could well end up demanding the release of any available records or a statement that they do not exist. If no records are forthcoming then Amanda's position is strengthened. The Italians are really stuck between a rock and a hard place.
 
According to the Record of the Execution of Arrest form, there were 7 (seven) police, including Giobbi, who assisted in bringing in that allegedly dangerous criminal, Amanda Knox, from the SCO in Rome.

Methos or anyone happen to know if Giobbi had worked for or succeeded giuttari or GIDES squad?

A relation to giuttari"s MOF hoax , er, investigations, would be pretty interesting.
 
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