Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[christianahannah]

Let's not play word games, please.

Arrest warrant

Quite a bunch of people, don't you think?

Would these names be a compilation of all those police and official types who have had contact with Amanda during the beginning of Meredith's murder (November 1) to the present date of November 6? The reason I wonder is that Insp. Battistelli's name is on the list. Would he still have been involved in questioning Amanda after November 1?

 

[Grinder]

Would these names be a compilation of all those police and official types who have had contact with Amanda during the beginning of Meredith's murder (November 1) to the present date of November 6? The reason I wonder is that Insp. Battistelli's name is on the list. Would he still have been involved in questioning Amanda after November 1?

Yes all the names but I think the link from Methos is different and only signed by Mignini I think - maybe one of you could explain what's what.

 

[Grinder]

Thank you

I came up with 36 plus the translator (where's an OCR when you need it )
Still quite a lot of people...

Okay I swear the one you linked is only signed by Mignini. Please help me understand what the two docs are.

 

[Dopre]

"Giacinto Profazio Head of the Perugia Flying Squad from Feb ’07 to July ’08 Oops

Can't find any trace of Rome interrogators except Giobbi."


Far enough. I made an error in naming Profazio. But why leave out Raffo?

 

[Methos]

Yes all the names but I think the link from Methos is different and only signed by Mignini I think - maybe one of you could explain what's what.

The warrant or oder to arrest was signed/ordered by Mignini alone, the notice/confirmation of arrest was signed by all of those involved in carrying out the ordered arrest, I think it's save to say that the people who are mentioned in the second document were involved in getting the the information causing the first

 

[Methos]

Would these names be a compilation of all those police and official types who have had contact with Amanda during the beginning of Meredith's murder (November 1) to the present date of November 6? The reason I wonder is that Insp. Battistelli's name is on the list. Would he still have been involved in questioning Amanda after November 1?

Not sure, but I think it looks like the persons mentioned "confirmed" with their signatures that the "arrest warrant" was carried out. (my 0,02 €)

 

[Grinder]

The warrant or oder to arrest was signed/ordered by Mignini alone, the notice/confirmation of arrest was signed by all of those involved in carrying out the ordered arrest, I think it's save to say that the people who are mentioned in the second document were involved in getting the the information causing the first

Thanks so much. Really hard to translate those PDFs.

 

[Dopre]

Did you provide the information of the police called in from Rome for the night of the 5th?

Could you please explain why you think Raffo would be participating in an interrogation at 10:30pm? What would an officer from Rome be doing there at such a late hour and why would they be involved in the interrogation if they were not solicited to participate?

 

[Dougm]

Okay. You mentioned reasons why the American mother would be worrisome which included US power etc.

I moved on from the 5th or actually backwards saying those same things would tend to keep them from picking her to frame.

And we agree on why they arrested her - I was addressing those that argue framing/convenient/etc.

I have been given the impression by people I know that live in Italy that there is a "big bad America" impression that exists with some of the people there (I would never say any impression exists with ALL of anyone). So I think that Edda coming from the US might have worried them more than Raff's family, or some family coming from Austria or somewhere like that.

I realize there are some that think the reason Amanda was targeted is at least partly because she was an American. I am of the belief that some of how they treated her came from feelings about her being an American, but I don't think they chose her as a suspect because she was American. You are correct, those ideas would be contradictory!

 

[Grinder]

I have been given the impression by people I know that live in Italy that there is a "big bad America" impression that exists with some of the people there (I would never say any impression exists with ALL of anyone). So I think that Edda coming from the US might have worried them more than Raff's family, or some family coming from Austria or somewhere like that.

I realize there are some that think the reason Amanda was targeted is at least partly because she was an American. I am of the belief that some of how they treated her came from feelings about her being an American, but I don't think they chose her as a suspect because she was American. You are correct, those ideas would be contradictory!

I'm not addressing the idea she was targeted because she was an American, which I don't believe, but rather that if as you put forward the Italians "feared" Edda's arrival in part because they "feared" the power of the US they would have picked someone else to frame.

 

[Grinder]

Could you please explain why you think Raffo would be participating in an interrogation at 10:30pm? What would an officer from Rome be doing there at such a late hour and why would they be involved in the interrogation if they were not solicited to participate?

Steffy came from Rome. Giobbi came from Rome. My best guess is that they came to Perugia and stayed. Raffo was in Perugia as part of the Rome contingent. I've seen nothing that would make me believe they were brought in that day or night specifically to interrogate the kids.

I would guess that in Italy the Rome people were like our FBI.

 

[Dopre]

Steffy came from Rome. Giobbi came from Rome. My best guess is that they came to Perugia and stayed. Raffo was in Perugia as part of the Rome contingent. I've seen nothing that would make me believe they were brought in that day or night specifically to interrogate the kids.

I would guess that in Italy the Rome people were like our FBI.

So why was he there?

I'm not following your reasoning at all. Are you saying the interrogation was a spontaneous event? What would a group of interrogators (at least two from Rome, perhaps more) be doing hanging out at the station at 10:30pm?

 

[Vixen]

Edited by Agatha: 

to removed moderated content

What Mez wrote in her last text to Amanda was, "<snip> What are your plans? xx Love you."

Poor poor Amanda having to roam the street on her own for hours.

Raff wasn't tryin' to protect Amanda. He was protecting poor poor Raff.

 

[zotz]

I'm not addressing the idea she was targeted because she was an American, which I don't believe, but rather that if as you put forward the Italians "feared" Edda's arrival in part because they "feared" the power of the US they would have picked someone else to frame.

According to Judge Matteini they arrested Amanda because they did fear what Edda could do, especially that she might take Amanda out of Italy.

"As for flight risk, it is still present. Your family lives in the United States, so it would be extremely easy for you to leave the country... We must remind you that your arrest was made very early, and was effected purposely before the arrival of your mother in order to avoid just such a possibility."

 

[Numbers]

How many signatures are on this arrest warrant?

If I am reading this correctly, the first seven names are the police officers from the SCO in Rome - beginning with VQA (means, approximately, Assistant Deputy Chief - a very high rank for a working cop) Giobbi, through Stefano Dionori. Note that Profazio and Chiacchiera of the Perugian police also have the VQA rank. Giobbi testified he came to Perugia from Rome on Nov. 2, the other SCO police may have come on that same day. They were sent to help the Perugian police.

It is possible that all these police were engaged in Amanda Knox's interrogation (perhaps not all in the interrogation room, though) and that is why they each signed the arrest document. Some may have considered themselves otherwise important in achieving the arrest.

ETA: This document in not the arrest warrant, which was only signed by PM Mignini. It is titled, approximately: "Record of completion of the execution of the decree of the Public Minister (PM) against Knox Amanda Marie." {Google translated with some smoothing of the English by me.}

 

[Grinder]

So why was he there?

I'm not following your reasoning at all. Are you saying the interrogation was a spontaneous event? What would a group of interrogators (at least two from Rome, perhaps more) be doing hanging out at the station at 10:30pm?

There was a big murder investigation going on. If I'm right that the Rome people were something akin to our FBI they were there to be part of the investigation. They were there to work and would be part of what was going on which that night included the interrogation(s).

The Rome team was there for the duration to aid in the investigation and doesn't prove a plan was in place IMO.

ETA - 10:30 is just dinner time in Perugia

 

[Grinder]

According to Judge Matteini they arrested Amanda because they did fear what Edda could do, especially that she might take Amanda out of Italy.

"As for flight risk, it is still present. Your family lives in the United States, so it would be extremely easy for you to leave the country... We must remind you that your arrest was made very early, and was effected purposely before the arrival of your mother in order to avoid just such a possibility."

Yes I brought this up and Methos provided the Perugia Shock article but neither of us can find the source doc. You can view the discussion but neither or us can understand why the judge would have said it. Methos pointed out that it in fact makes it clear she was a suspect before the interview.

 

[Vixen]

I did too until I went beyond TJMK and PMF for the facts. I really want to understand how anyone can really think that these 2 innocent kids that had never been in any trouble before, who had known each other less than 2 weeks would murder Meredith.

Vixen believes they are guilty, but hardly any of the data she bases her opinion on actually comes from the court documents, but from tabloid journalists. It's a simple case of GIGO or Garbage In, Garbage Out. If there was an ironclad case against the two, I might understand, but all there is is very marginal and highly speculative nonsense.

If you take a little bit of time to cull through the nonsense it really is absurd. But some people get fixated on the nonsense I guess. It must be sexier to imagine that Raffaele was Amanda's sex slave willing to jeopardize his whole life for a piece of tail.

Is it the wickedness that appeals to them? That the trashy novels and bizarre sexy orgy plot seizes their imagination where the mundane reality of a small time burglar doesn't?

Exactly; the crime was so heinous in the Lizzie Borden case it simply could not have been done by such a sweet pious young thing. Why, the judge just had to let her go. The idea of her taking an axe to Mom and Dad was absurd!

Police are not looking for anyone else.

 

[Vixen]

Here are a few American habits that Amanda manifested:

• Plays guitar
• Speaks up or sings in the company of a group of British girls, some of whom she doesn't know.
• Does yoga, including the splits.
• Trusts the police.
• Eats pizza.
• Gets kissed on the head (not lips) by an Italian man to console her and responds with a kiss (at worst possible time).
• Looks ashen in video right before boyfriend tries to console her with kiss on the head, but somehow those video frames are omitted in the loop shown in news broadcasts.
• Looks for a parttime job due to work ethic (not financial need) and from a desire to meet people and learn Italian.
• Sees a very handsome black man and thinks he is very handsome.
• Writes lengthy notes and emails about anything and everything.
• Doesn't gasp "I have sinned" when confronted about smoking pot.
• Doesn't know that European toilets require manual help after flushing. Doesn't make a big deal out of it.
• Buys cheap clean underwear with hippo logo when she desperately needs clean underwear.
  
• showers a second time in her own shower with the good shampoo, not that cheap stuff guys use.
• When asked, lets her housemate "borrow" condoms and doesn't gossip about it to others.
• stays around to help the police and try to make a go of her study abroad, rather than take the first flight home.

We have similar habits in Essex. When confronted about pot-smoking, though, unlike Amanda they do not immediately grass on their friends. They would keep the condom discreet, unlike Amanda who couldn't wait to tell everyone. By "borrowed", are you saying it's an American habit to expect it back?

 

[Bill Williams]

We have similar habits in Essex. When confronted about pot-smoking, though, unlike Amanda they do not immediately grass on their friends. They would keep the condom discreet, unlike Amanda who couldn't wait to tell everyone. By "borrowed", are you saying it's an American habit to expect it back?

It is not apparent what this post means or what it has to do with the thread.