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Greeks vote to reject incumbants, austerity

The worst the troika acts, the more obvious it becomes how collectively unintelligent Greeks are for voting in parties that agreed to those terms. The greeks ave failed the iq test for the euro.
 
The allowance of tomfoolery for this thread has been exceeded, so focus. Those who give a darn and might understand (and don't let dudalb and timhau out), this what I reckon is going to happen:

  • If NO wins, certain things will happen. If YES wins, exactly the same things will happen.
  • There's no way the banks are opening next Tuesday in any condition near to normal (I'd rather say they're not opening at all)
  • The ECB will be assisting Greece again, but using a dropper: maybe one or two thousand millions a month and increasingly less.
  • Every kind of substitute will flourish as the government will promote it: free bank accounts and debit cards for pensioners and rural folk, free POS system on mobile phones for small stores, plumbers, etc.
  • Capital will probably continue to flee the country, some 3 o 4 thousand millions a month -with weeks of apparent calm-, as bank bills into mattresses, tea cans under floor boards -a lot of stone there- and later as a strange kind of tourism: people travelling to Plovdiv, Bari, Izmir or Edirne, just for the day with little brick-sized packages and coming back empty handed.
  • Grexit is already a fact. The rest is theatre and denial while they try to blame each other. Once all the blame is allocated, fairly or unfairly, Grexit will be publicly revealed. Maybe in 6-9 months, with Siriza on charge or whitout it, no difference.
  • I expect next week the début of the black market for the ghost euro, the transient currency of Greece. I bet a rate of 0.9, that is 1,000€ within the corralito in exchange for 900€ in notes or a cheque on Frankfurt, Paris, London or Zurich. The rate will worsen rigorously following Gresham's Law.
  • The Greek government will withhold the launching of the IOUs -the second transient currency- for some time while there's still hope to reach some kind of agreement and "avoid" the fait accompli of Grexit. Anyway, some sort of private monetary emission will emerge, like 20€ postdated to-the-bearer bank cheques from solid corporations or individuals (or their front men).
Because, let's stop beating the bush and admit it: there's no way Greece can be now a part of the Eurozone. Imagine a scenario of the Greek government signing any plan and banks fully opening: capital will flee, no matter there might be weeks of calms and some thousand millions may be thrown into the Greek banking system to promote trust and tranquillity. Anyway, more than a half of the Greek banking system is out of the country, and almost all the rest will follow. They'll only be left meagre bank capitals, government deposits, spare change, all to attend public credit cards. And nothing else. The rest is just collecting payments from old loans and sending them to the ECB in order to pay what stands out and is overdrawn.


Greece would be left without a banking system and forced to pay through its private sector what its public one is bailed out. Such a country can't avoid a spiral of economical contraction so, be realistic, either they threw 50 thousand millions of fresh money (Darwin forbids!) over a third bail out just in order to buy time -cause the Euro is killing Greece and no life support will change that- or they accept reality and let Greece to have their own currency.


And like Forrest said: that's all I have to say about it.
 
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The Argentine avatar for the Greek crisis

18on76.jpg


(I would have kept the whole helmet on one side)
 
I propose a four-step path out of the Greek crisis. First, I recommend that the Greek people give a resounding “No” to the creditors in the referendum on their demands this weekend.

Second, Greece should continue to withhold service on its external debts to official creditors in advance of a consensual debt restructuring later this year. Given its great depression, Greece should use its savings to pay pensioners, provide food relief, make crucial infrastructure repairs, and direct liquidity toward the banking system.

Third, Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras must use his persuasive powers to convince the public, in the style of US President Franklin D. Roosevelt, that the only thing they have to fear is fear itself. Specifically, the government should make clear to all Greeks that their euro deposits are safe; that the country will remain within the eurozone (despite the false claims by some members of the Eurogroup that a no vote means a Greek exit); and that its banks will reopen immediately after the referendum.

Finally, Greece and Germany need to come to a rapprochement soon after the referendum and agree to a package of economic reforms and debt relief. No country – including Greece – should expect to be offered debt relief on a silver platter; relief must be earned and justified by real reforms that restore growth, to the benefit of both debtor and creditor. And yet, a corpse cannot carry out reforms. That is why debt relief and reforms must be offered together, not reforms “first” with some vague promises that debt relief will come in some unspecified amount at some unspecified time in the future (as some in Europe have said to Greece).

Read more at http://www.project-syndicate.org/co...y-jeffrey-d-sachs-2015-07#VXwLvBFEO7PID5Qd.99
 
Greece chose deficit financing. Greece chose to enhance social programs by borrowing money. Banks set out how money was to be repaid.
Greece came to be unable to follow repayment commitments. Now banks have a new repayment plan but Greeks say "but but but, our social programs are dear to us, no we reject that plan." Ok banks will no longer lend more money to Greece.

Greeks will see their social programs go away whether or not they accept austerity plans.
 
Are you sure you know the facts? Which banks, for instance? And what social plans in this year's budget are paid by those banks?

Does it matter? Greece borrowed money. The government did something with that money. Now the government says it cannot repay. No servicing the debt, no more loans. No more loans = inability to funds government programs.

If I borrow money and then later declare bankruptcy then wherever I borrowed the money from is going to be a bit unresponsive to any later entreaties to borrow again.

In Canada, although I consider myself to be more in line with the federal Liberal Party, I did not feel comfortable with that party financing social programs with deficit financing,,,,in the 1970s. I still hate that governments see a budget surplus (when they get one), as an excuse to grant more funds to programs. No, pay off debt!
 
If I borrow money and then later declare bankruptcy then wherever I borrowed the money from is going to be a bit unresponsive to any later entreaties to borrow again.

Nobody has declared bankruptcy here, nor been declared bankrupt, jaydeehess. Your argument doesn't apply.

The issue here is that Greece was already effectively bankrupt when the Troika applied their bailout plan. To channel Varoufakis: they treated national bankruptcy as a liquidity problem. And that's true, and they did it (primarily) to protect German and French banks.

Why did they keep pumping bailout funds into an obviously (but unofficially) bankrupt country? In some jurisdictions that might be considered 'criminal'.
 
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Varoufakis' latest on the IMF analysis:

Yanis Varoufakis said:
The IMF’s latest debt sustainability analysis (DSA) is a fascinating read: [...]

EPILOGUE


Puzzlingly, all this fine research by the good people at the IMF suddenly evaporates when IMF functionaries coalesce with their ECB and the European Commission colleagues in order to impose upon our government their chosen policies. On 25th June we were presented with their ultimatum that centred upon zero debt relief, gigantic austerity (3.5% in the medium term), and more of the same labour and product markets’ ‘reforms’.
  • Never before has a veritable institution advocated policies that clashed so mercilessly with its own research.
  • Never before has the IMF agreed, on economic analysis, with a government it sought to devastate.
 
Does it matter? Greece borrowed money. The government did something with that money. Now the government says it cannot repay. No servicing the debt, no more loans. No more loans = inability to funds government programs.

Do you realize that, during the last few years. the only loans Greece has gotten were just to pay older loans? And financing the social system with loans is not the way it works. For instance, in Argentina, our pension funds were confiscated by our Venezuelan like government, so now I am happily candidate to get the minimum pension by 2029 (today 390$ a month), if I'm still alive. But never a loan to finance the system.
 
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By the way, is there any positive feedback between all the crisis in development? Today Chinese stock markets felt again (almost 3 billion -US trillion- dollars of value vanished) and now it's 28% down since June 12th. Chinese growth of 7% this year is projected, according to some analysts, to drop to 3% (horror!).

Will this put pressure to accept the plea of leniency from the Greek government? This looks a very complicated year (at home, don't even ask, liebe Gott!)
 

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