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Moderated JFK conspiracy theories: it never ends III

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I know you're an honest man, Jay. So I will presume that you just have a little problem with reading comprehension.

I said I will say nothing derogatory about my debate adversaries. The people who troll and post ad hominem attacks are not my debate adversaries and probably never will be. None of them would ever have the courage to engage me in an honest debate.

That post itself is dishonest. We know what you meant, and this isn't it. You'd make a good politician.
 
Isn't the constant repetition of the Harris Rules of Engagement rather disruptive to the flow of the thread?

If I didn't know better I would think this was an attempt at martyrdom by mod...

Oh, and cmikes, thank you for posting that stuff earlier re: startle reactions. That was what I was attempting to bring up way back when, but without the references. Then the thread just kept moving...
:)
 
...Oh, and cmikes, thank you for posting that stuff earlier re: startle reactions.

Agreed. It nicely illustrated the observation that referencing experts does not make one an expert, plus it amused me to read that not only did RH rather obviously misinterpret the reason the passengers sway forwards, but his alternative explanation was itself based on a misunderstanding.

So I've seen no evidence of a shot at Z285 which stands up to scrutiny. There doesn't seem to be much to debate.
 
Agreed. It nicely illustrated the observation that referencing experts does not make one an expert, plus it amused me to read that not only did RH rather obviously misinterpret the reason the passengers sway forwards, but his alternative explanation was itself based on a misunderstanding.

That's why, when someone says "it's a fact" about their interpretation, you are quite justified in calling them on it.
 
You really seem like a great guy, Jay.

But let me ask you a hypothetical question, which I'm sure will contain 5 or 6 fallacies.

If by some incredible, billion to one chance, this JFK thing turned out to be a conspiracy, wouldn't you want to know about it?
Yes, and if you know something about it, wouldn't you want to present your coherent alternative hypothesis so that it could be scrutinized? You're simply a child on the playground taunting that you have a secret to the other kids who won't let you join their group.

What would be the worst thing that would happen if you guys engaged in an honest debate on a level playing field - one in which I don't have to deal with a dozen opponents simultaneously?
The first thing is that the CTist would get all huffy and start slinging insults, pretty much like you did. Then he would put his fingers in his ears and shout loudy, "I can't hear all the refutations to my fallacies!", pretty much like you did. Seems as if we've been engaged in honest debate with one who can't tell the truth any more than he understands logical fallacies.

Surely, whoever debates me will kick my ass all over the place, right? And even though I am undoubtedly too stupid to recognize the beating I am taking, everyone who views the debate will see it and be perhaps a little better prepared for your next victim, er I mean adversary.
Actually, your ass has been kicked all over the place already, you just don't recognize it and I'm sure you know the reason better than I.

So why not pick out your sharpest guy, perhaps Hank, and encourage him to debate me, one on one and humor me by going along with my rules.
Could I suggest that you pick your sharpest CTist and have him/her come here to present their coherent alternative hypothesis? The ones we've been getting have just been hacks.

What do you have to lose??
I'd hate to lose you as a play toy, of course. You've provided us endless amusement lately and you just seem to amp it up every post. "If you find yourself in a deep hole, stop digging."

Think of all the fun you'll have watching my humiliation, as your man gives me the comeuppance I so richly deserve for all the terrible fallacies I have committed or which you have so wisely predicted I will commit in the future.
Um, that's already happening, people are already laughing at you. You just don't realize it for the reasons you've enumerated.
 
I WILL DEBATE NO ONE WHO DOES NOT AGREE TO THEM.

Nor will I say anything derogatory about my debate opponents.

And since your rules are idiotic and nobody will agree to them, you've essentially given yourself carte blanche to freely insult everyone, as you've already demonstrated.

When will you start being honest?
 
What is with all the hate, gentlemen?

Why is it that there are 12 posts about "Robert Harris" for every single post about the assassination of President Kennedy?
 
And since your rules are idiotic and nobody will agree to them, you've essentially given yourself carte blanche to freely insult everyone, as you've already demonstrated.

When will you start being honest?

What is it specifically, that you find to be idiotic about the rules?
 
Isn't the constant repetition of the Harris Rules of Engagement rather disruptive to the flow of the thread?

If I didn't know better I would think this was an attempt at martyrdom by mod...

Oh, and cmikes, thank you for posting that stuff earlier re: startle reactions. That was what I was attempting to bring up way back when, but without the references. Then the thread just kept moving...
:)

It is not an attempt at martyrdom.

It is an attempt to create a level playing field.

What specifically do you find objectionable about the rules I propose?
 
Agreed. It nicely illustrated the observation that referencing experts does not make one an expert, plus it amused me to read that not only did RH rather obviously misinterpret the reason the passengers sway forwards, but his alternative explanation was itself based on a misunderstanding.

So I've seen no evidence of a shot at Z285 which stands up to scrutiny. There doesn't seem to be much to debate.

Do you believe the conclusions of Drs. Alvarez and Stroscio that there was a startling noise at frame 285, which startled Zapruder and caused Greer to slow the limo, is not "evidence"?
 
Let me put it this way: you admit that Oswald is a shooter, but cannot provide evidence for more shooters other than some vague notion that people on the Z film might have been reacting to a sound. That IS evidence that Oswald acted alone.

Please do not misrepresent my analysis. First, I only said that Oswald was "probably" a shooter.

And second, my arguments about the limo passengers' reactions are very specific. Do you dispute my assertion that 5 people in the limo began to duck or spin around, in the same 1/6th of a second that Zapruder exhibited startle reactions as Alvarez claimed?
 
What is with all the hate, gentlemen?
Still with the persecution complex? Why do you hate everyone here who disagrees with you? Why do you detest and abhor those who point out your fallacies?

Why is it that there are 12 posts about "Robert Harris" for every single post about the assassination of President Kennedy?
Because you've made it about "Robert Harris". Did you want to change that?
 
What is it specifically, that you find to be idiotic about the rules?

Ah good, I have your attention. Let's discuss the JFK assassination, as you've claimed that you want to do. I hope you were being honest about that.

Please present your entire comprehensive and coherent alternative hypothesis for how JFK was assassinated. After you've given an overview of your own narrative, then you may start showing how each bit of evidence lines up with it.
 
Since Robert is a believer in the "Mafia did it" theory of the assassination, I have a few questions for other, more informed people in the thread. This post is mostly directed at BStrong since he has experience in police work, but anyone else that has information is more than welcome to jump in.

My understanding has always been that the American Mafia, especially at that time, had very strict rules when dealing with the authorities.

My understanding is that the mafia had very few rules, beyond the one that said the last man standing is in charge.

Do you have documentation to confirm that such rules existed?

I had always heard that to even kill off a beat cop or a low level judge was something that had to be approved at the highest levels of their organization, since something like that could easily bring down a world of hurt on them, that the authorities would be all over them in order to avenge "one of their own". So why would they jump immediately from "we have to be really careful about taking out a beat cop that won't play ball with us" to "let's kill the President of the United States"? Has anyone else ever heard this line of thought?

So, your source is what you "had always heard"?

My source is Carlos Marcello. I think that trumps your source.

Seriously, given Oswald's well known instabilities and anti-social tendencies, how could Carlos Marcello know that Oswald wouldn't crack like an egg once taken into custody and immediately declare who put him up to it and throw himself to the mercy of the authorities by telling them everything he knew?

True enough. In fact, Marcello told Laningham that Oswald was crazy. But they didn't want him for his shooting skills. They wanted him for his communist/Castro legend. There is nothing the mob wanted more than to regain the lucrative casino business in Cuba, which Castro took from them.

If they could put the blame on Oswald, then they hoped the US would retaliate by taking Castro out of power. I believe the mistake that many of my fellow conspiracy advocates make is in thinking Oswald was an innocent patsy. He was a patsy, but he wasn't innocent.

The other question I had was in regard to American Mafia tactics. Was it really their style to make a hit in a very public venue in front of hundreds of witnesses?

It is not a matter of "style". Marcello's primary motivation was hate and his desire for vengence. Killing JFK in such a public manner was a way of humiliating Bobby and flaunting his power over them.

After Bobby quite literally kidnapped Marcello and dumped him in the jungles of Guatemala, there was probably no one on the planet who hated the Kennedys more than him. He swore he would get revenge and he said he would do it by killing JFK rather than Bobby.

He later confessed (unwittingly) to an FBI informant that he did exactly that. He also told mafia attorney, Frank Ragano essentially the same thing.
 
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What is with all the hate, gentlemen?

Guess again. We're not afraid of you. We don't hate you. We're laughing at you.

Why is it that there are 12 posts about "Robert Harris" for every single post about the assassination of President Kennedy?

Because that's the way you want it. You can't stop making the discussion about you. When you start spamming your rules at people who are trying to engage you on the nominal topic of the thread, you don't get to whine about the direction the thread is taking.
 
Why are there 78 posts repeating "debate rules" and not one articulating a comprehensive alternative to the lone gunman narrative?

I did not write 78 posts on that.

Is it really possible that you don't know why I posted the ones I did write?
 
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