South Carolina, tear down that flag!

[Cleon]

Under the heading of "making hay while the sun shines"...

Seen this morning driving through McCaysville, GA:

[qimg]https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/377/19350526692_c89ee6291a_c.jpg[/qimg]

Hard to see, but all those t-shirts are Confederate flag-themed.

Wildman's in Kennesaw must be making a killing.

 

[Polaris]

Perhaps discouraging them from wearing the flag is a bad idea - at least it's easier to identify them.

This is one of the best reasons for defending unpopular speech/speech with which you disagree.

 

[pgwenthold]

And from another poll: "White supporters of the Confederate battle emblem are distinguished not by their knowledge of Southern history but rather their ignorance of it."

I realize this is 10 years old but, wow, what an indictment of the "ignorant redneck" stereotype.

 

[Mumbles]

Perhaps discouraging them from wearing the flag is a bad idea - at least it's easier to identify them.

Well, the people who are simply ignorant should be encouraged to learn. There's nothing amazing about the South that causes white people to be completely unable to do that.

The ones who are actually racist, yes, I agree. Leave the flag to them. It's no shock to me that the terrorist who was talking about black people "raping our women and taking over the country" was following the Trayvon Martin coverage - both he and Zimmerman were simply pushing the "black brute" stereotype.

 

[Ladewig]

talking about black people "raping our women and taking over the country" was following the Trayvon Martin coverage -

No, he was talking about Mexicans raping our women and talking over the country.

[oops, sorry about that. I thought I was in the Donald Trump thread]

 

[Mumbles]

No, he was talking about Mexicans raping our women and talking over the country.

[oops, sorry about that. I thought I was in the Donald Trump thread]

Don't think I didn't notice that.

 

[Meadmaker]

As to key chains and belt buckles? I'm joining EG3000. Not with my money, thank you. Federal/National parks and monuments? They should not be offering what has become a symbol and rallying point for bigotry for sale. [/I]

Sanctimony must be in the eye of the beholder.

That sounds pretty sanctimonious to me.

[Orator voice]
Nay, we shall not allow the sale of symbols of hate to subsidize the maintenance of this land! We shall pay the upkeep of this place with our own taxes before we allow it to be subsidized by selling reminders of half of the men who fought here! We will not rest until every key chain, every coaster, every coffee cup is free of the symbol that made this place what it was![/orator voice]

 

[Meadmaker]

Under the heading of "making hay while the sun shines"...

Seen this morning driving through McCaysville, GA:

[qimg]https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/377/19350526692_c89ee6291a_c.jpg[/qimg]

Hard to see, but all those t-shirts are Confederate flag-themed.

I love Americans. I really do. Tell the American people that they aren't supposed to do something, and one of them will do it twice as often, and another will find a way to make a buck off of it.

God Bless America!

 

[jimbob]

Sanctimony must be in the eye of the beholder.

That sounds pretty sanctimonious to me.

[Orator voice]
Nay, we shall not allow the sale of symbols of hate to subsidize the maintenance of this land! We shall pay the upkeep of this place with our own taxes before we allow it to be subsidized by selling reminders of half of the men who fought here! We will not rest until every key chain, every coaster, every coffee cup is free of the symbol that made this place what it was![/orator voice]

It's more that many use it as a massive two fingers to blacks and the idea of racial equality, as most blacks see it like that, then it is time to consider whether it is appropriate to support it. The many who do use it as a massive two fingers are actually using the symbol as it was meant to be used.

 

[Meadmaker]

I hear that, but then again, when asked, no one has ever given a real answer. The best that anyone can come up with is "there ancestors fought in the civil war" and "they talk with an accent."

You need more?

Why?




It's all about identity. I don't know why ancestor reverence, sometimes even worship, is so common among human beings, but it is.

You have decided that those aren't legitimate answers. Well that's mighty presumptuous isn't it?

You: What do those people have in common?
Me: Ancestry and a way of speaking that identifies them.
You: But what "legitimate" things do they have in common?


I don't know, grits and sweet tea, then.


If they had a distinct language, I'm sure people would agree that sets them apart. Well, they don't. However, you can identify one of them as soon as he opens his mouth. That's got to count for something.

And of course, as our society has grown more mobile, both of those things have gotten less distinct. Accents are not as pronounced as they once were. More people who live in the South today have ancestors that did not live in the South. And....guess what.....there's less support for the flag that represents the region. Go figure.

 

[steve s]

NASCAR has asked fans not to display the battle flag at races. Methinks this will backfire.

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/07/02/nascar-tracks-unite-ask-fans-not-to-fly-confederate-flag/

Steve S

 

[Meadmaker]

deleted. Got something wrong about the history survey.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Sanctimony must be in the eye of the beholder.
That sounds pretty sanctimonious to me.

[Orator voice]
Nay, we shall not allow the sale of symbols of hate to subsidize the maintenance of this land! We shall pay the upkeep of this place with our own taxes before we allow it to be subsidized by selling reminders of half of the men who fought here! We will not rest until every key chain, every coaster, every coffee cup is free of the symbol that made this place what it was![/orator voice]

Hilited part pretty much nails it. It's a variation on an oft-repeated theme. Anyone who disagrees with you and takes the moral high ground is sanctimonious. (That's the editorial "you", not solely you, Meadmaker.) But, as with any good propaganda, you twisted the meaning and ignored the point. Those properties are supported by We, The People (how's that for playing back a card). That means all of us.

As background, the National Parks meme started with California-run state facilities last year. Just what the hell is California to the history of the Civil War? They were selling belt buckles, I believe. Why? Is it a Stupid Tax? Getting the ignorant to pay for creeping socialism by appealing to their tribal symbols? And while I can see a point in a historical site selling a historical rendering of Confederate emblems, the question comes to end use. As evidenced by the Georgia study, it's unlikely that purchasers from Vicksburg or Gettysburg National Parks were even aware of the history, much less "Civil War Buffs".

Sudafed was a viable product with a good use. The end of the product was because of the other uses it was being put to.

 

[Walter Ego]

NASCAR has asked fans not to display the battle flag at races. Methinks this will backfire.

The General Lee isn't racing anymore either.

Dukes of Hazzard Star John Schneider Slams TV Land for Pulling Reruns Over Confederate Flag

“Do I think taking Dukes off TV is silly? Yes, of course,” he said in a YouTube rant posted on Wednesday, July 1.

“Do I think it’s an error? Yes. Because Dukes of Hazzard was one of the most beloved shows ever. And now it’s being cast in a terrible light that it does not deserve.”

“The thing that you need to understand is that people have lost their lives,” the former heartthrob continued, referring to the Confederate soldiers who lost their lives in the Civil War.

“This is not about a television show, it’s not about a flag, it’s not about white or black or yellow or blue or green or gold, it’s about the fact that people have lost their lives and that is what we should be thinking about.”

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity...-land-for-pulling-reruns-201527#ixzz3emUHOqzW

 

[Meadmaker]

As evidenced by the Georgia study, it's unlikely that purchasers from Vicksburg or Gettysburg National Parks were even aware of the history, much less "Civil War Buffs".

I would love to see that Georgia study if anyone can find a link to the survey itself. The Post's summary struck me as odd.

Still, it would not surprise me if the general trend was correct, that the more they know about history, the less they support the flag. I suspect that history buffs would have a certain respect for the memory of the men (mostly boys really) who fought under the flag, but much less respect for men who fly it out of the back of their pickup truck. I just doubt that particular survey was a very good judge of civil war knowledge.

For what it's worth, I would be perfectly happy to get rid of all the cheap trinkets from battlefield gift shop. Maybe there ought to be a little more solemnity than can be found on a belt buckle. Limit sales to books, maps, and educational materials. If they did that, I wouldn't complain. Singling out memorabilia from one set of the people that fought there, though, doesn't seem quite right to me.

 

[Checkmite]

I am not questioning that there was racism at its roots. I am questioning the implicit claim that racism at the roots must carry over to racism in the distant seedlings.

I don't think that the racism, in theory, must carry over. But regardless of that, the practical fact of the matter is that it has carried over. The flag has been prominently and continuously employed as a reference to white supremacy since the postbellum period. There was never a point in which it was used in some other way as prominently, while not being used at the same time by white supremacists, so as to allow for some alternate meaning to take root.

Addressing the "ignorance" issue; I think the national news coverage has solved that problem. Major retailers, television networks, and other internet sites have stopped its use, making it clear that they consider it a symbol of racial hatred. Mass media has covered these stoppages and their reasons, and the protestations of those who like the flag. I don't think it's a realistic possibility anymore for any fan of the flag to be earnestly ignorant and unaware of the flag's meaning to a huge percentage of the American population. So among those who display the symbol, it's no longer a matter of "they're either racists or ignorant of the flag's history"; it's more like "they're racists, or they're fully aware that the flag has racist connotations and don't care".

 

[Checkmite]

The General Lee isn't racing anymore either.

Dukes of Hazzard Star John Schneider Slams TV Land for Pulling Reruns Over Confederate Flag

“Do I think it’s an error? Yes. Because Dukes of Hazzard was one of the most beloved shows ever."

By the people who loved it, at least.

 

[Yuchi1]

I believe it is the morons that tend to call smart people elitist. It is pretty sad that intelligence and education is seen as a failure and not a virtue by many of the right wing.

Intelligence and education are failures when the critical component of wisdom is absent as it is necessary for the practical application of intelligence to the betterment of all.

 

[Mumbles]

And of course, as our society has grown more mobile, both of those things have gotten less distinct. Accents are not as pronounced as they once were. More people who live in the South today have ancestors that did not live in the South. And....guess what.....there's less support for the flag that represents the region. Go figure.

It doesn't "represent the region", stop saying that. It represents racial hatred.

 

[Yuchi1]

It doesn't "represent the region", stop saying that. It represents racial hatred.

Which is coast-to-coast.