South Carolina, tear down that flag!

[Checkmite]

Deny, deny, deny, make counteraccusations...

Predictable.

They (north) were the ones doing the writing, on the wall and for the aforementioned reasons.

BBL, have to mow the pasture.

The only denial that's going on is your denial of the contemporary Confederates' plainly-written-in-English explanations for why they "seceded".

Of course the "writing on the wall" (regarding the end of slavery) was being written by northerners. Southerners certainly weren't speaking that language.

 

[beren]

The peculiarity isn't that all nations are forgiven, it's that some aren't while others are. Why?

.

Easier to forgive one that did bad things, but also good than one whose SOLE purpose of existence and motive of creation is bad?


Easier to forgive one that is repentant and changed than one who sticks to its "bad" guns until the end?

Easier to forgive one that still exists to be forgiven than one that isn't?

Nah, you're right. There is no logic or reason to it.

As regards to the north good, south bad dichotomy, it is with nothing that there is no significant group of people who identify themselves as "the north" or who celebrate "north pride" or who consider themselves a single distinct group separate from the rest of the country, at least, not that I am aware of. Not is there, to my knowledge, a group of northerners loudly proclaiming a desire to separate the country based exclusively on the lines defined by the War to Defend the Right to Abuse Humans. The north/south thing is further by the south. They want it, they create it, the publicize it. They insist on the being two groups.

It's worth noting that they other ways we commonly divide the county such as east coast versus wes or coastal states versus "flyover" states or even red versus blue states are all fluid and less defined. The "South" is defined by the War, the others are more nebulous distinctions.





*off topic, but I am on a tablet, and autocorect changed South to Sith at one point. Not sure what to make of that.

 

[Checkmite]

Warner Bros. has said that they will no longer license "Dukes of Hazzard" merchandise featuring the Confederate flag.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Warner Bros. has said that they will no longer license "Dukes of Hazzard" merchandise featuring the Confederate flag.

The South switches its symbol from the Confederate flag to Daisy Duke's denim short-shorts.

 

[Cleon]

The South switches its symbol from the Confederate flag to Daisy Duke's denim short-shorts.

I'd raise that flag proudly.

In some ways, I already have.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Lee appears to have had conflicted attitudes on Slavery,but in the end he was a bit like Jefferson: he moaned that it was a bad instituion but kept the slaves he owned.

Well he thought it was a bad thing, but it was useful in civilizing the barbaric negro. As such it wasn't exactly a strong condemnation of it.

 

[ponderingturtle]

What discussion? Nothing's been furthered. South bad, North good. Repeat a billion times, and wonder why some Southerners don't seem to like it. Must be their evil stupidity, what else could it be?

Hey at least they were the first nation to write the supremacy of the white race in to their constitution that has to count for something right?

And they won reconstruction and stripped blacks of the rights that the foolish northerners had tried to give them so that must count too.

How about taking pride in how well they are resisting the gays now?

 

[ponderingturtle]

I said "South", not "Southerners". But I was referring to the abortive nation. Sorry, sloppy phrasing. My point is that the US before the split was up to its neck in horrible actions, but it gets a free pass on all of it because one separatist movement kept doing one of the horrors longer. I'm not saying the South was good--I'm saying that the South being bad doesn't make the North automatically good. The lesser of two evils is still evil.

Yes, it is as crazy as thinking the Allies are the good guys in WWII. They are also really damn evil, just less so. But do we ever see that truth?

 

[ponderingturtle]

Perhaps if the south as a whole stopped flying that goddamn flag, we wouldn't have the "North good South Bad" discussion.

Or trying to make the confederacy anything other than a nation founded to continue and expand slavery.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I saw more Confederate flags in Indiana than I did in Georgia. What's with that?

The stupidity is not limited to region of course. Doesn't mean it isn't stupid.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Huh? The discussion is about requesting a state to not display a symbol originally used by secessionist who fought a war over slavery. Nothing about the South as a region being bad. I'm originally from a seceding state myself.

That is because the historical record of the confederacy is clearly slander against the south. This is one of those times that truth is not a defense against slander charges.

 

[bit_pattern]

 

[Travis]

So that flag isn't really supposed to represent racism despite the fact that racism is the first thing that will pop into anyone's head that sees it? Well you know what I think of that?

Pretensions of crows salting moans while vaginas mercilessly. Never critical wanting of whatnot and soda depression.

You don't understand what I just wrote? Well that's just because you don't know what those words mean to me! If you decided to use the "accepted" meanings of those words then that isn't my fault. I made myself pretty clear.

 

[kookbreaker]

Relevant to the OP, reason why the CBF is an issue in the first place:

http://www.etymonline.com/cw/economics.htm

The tarrif argument. It is nonsense. It gleefully quotes CLyde Wilson, a neoconfederate. Not impressed. The tarrif in place was the 1857 tarriff which was sponser and favored the Southern states. The Morrill tariff was only passed due to the south's secession.

IMO, the basic reason.

http://teaching.msa.maryland.gov/000001/000000/000017/html/t17.html

Rough trade, and how many states did the CSA force at gunpoint themselves? You won't like the answer.

President Lincoln did this.

http://www.history.com/news/four-days-of-fire-the-new-york-city-draft-riots

He caused the riot? Or are you whining about the draft? Rememebr the CSA had the draft a year before the Union.

War isn't pretty, and nobody is claiming one side were pure angelic wingdust.

 

[ponderingturtle]

If this is a symbol of The South, why are black residents not included as members of southern culture?

 

[jhunter1163]

IMO, you missed the mark as (coming from someone that grew up in the "occupied land") the American Civil War was an economic clash (first and foremost) that used slavery as a focal point, after the fact since President Lincoln's first motive was to "preserve the Union". Why? The north actually needed the south's wealth as it dwarfed the rest of the country (1861) making the CSA as the fifth wealthiest country on the planet.

And a significant fraction of that "wealth" was human beings who were deemed property. If you take that out of the equation, the CSA probably isn't in the top 20 wealth-wise.

 

[Craig4]

IMO, you missed the mark as (coming from someone that grew up in the "occupied land") the American Civil War was an economic clash (first and foremost) that used slavery as a focal point, after the fact since President Lincoln's first motive was to "preserve the Union". Why? The north actually needed the south's wealth as it dwarfed the rest of the country (1861) making the CSA as the fifth wealthiest country on the planet.

A political solution was not in the cards, per the radical republicans as a military conquest would not only quell the south's political power (how many POTUS, pre-1861 were from the south?) but allow them to extraappropriate much, if not all of the wealth from below the M/D line. That's what "reconstruction" was really all about, a kleptocratic feeding frenzy.

Now that you understand this was a forcible entry situation with the end game of "wealth redistribution" perhaps you will have a better understanding of the underlying animosity that exists to this very day.

Botton line is simply this...since 04/1861, the USA is a country held together...by strict military force, period.

There may be hope as it has only taken ~800 years for the Irish and English to begin a reconcillation.

Everything you just wrote is wrong. Read the Artcles of Secession from each State. Read Jeff Davis's comments about an election of a Republcan and how that would require slave states to leave the Union. It's all about slavery. As far as contnuing animosity, I'd wear the animosity of someone who favored the South's cause as a badge of honor.

 

[ddt]

And a significant fraction of that "wealth" was human beings who were deemed property. If you take that out of the equation, the CSA probably isn't in the top 20 wealth-wise.

Thanks.

I was wondering about that claim, because AFAIK, the Union outclassed the Confederacy in about any measure. Wiki has this bar graph showing the Union at 2 to 4 times big in various measures, including 3 times as big in GNP.

But that explanation clears it up. And shows how disingenuous the claim is.

 

[Meadmaker]

This has gotten stupid.


For the record, I don't think the confederate flag, nor any flag used by an army of the CSA, ought to fly from any government building in anything remotely resembling an official capacity. I don't think it matters very much, but it would be best not to have one of those flags flying from a capital building, or a county courthouse, or outside of a municipal water treatment center for that matter.

However, I just read an article that the "confederate flag" has now been banned from all merchandise sold at National Park Service outlets. That means if you go to a Civil War battlefield, you can't buy a confederate flag belt buckle. That's dumb.

 

[kookbreaker]

Is it going to get weird where they little playsets of Civil War soldiers have to be removed because one of the toy soldiers is carrying the flag?