Man unable to open car doors after battery failure; dies

[Blue Mountain]

Texas man, dog die after being trapped in Corvette

A Port Arthur man took his last breath in what he considered to be his dream car. 72-year-old James Rogers and his dog Leia got trapped inside his 2007 Corvette Monday afternoon.

Police believe heat exhaustion eventually killed the two.
<snip>
Mike Flash, owner of Corvette Specialties, told 12News that the 2007 Corvette has a manual release located on the floorboard by the driver's seat. But Rogers did not know that.

(Bolding mine) My question is: why did he not know that?

For background, the key fob is the standard way to open the car's door. I'm guessing there isn't a interior latch on the door itself, possibly to achieve a clean look to the interior.

The car's from 2007, so it's possible he bought it used. In that case, there may not have been a dealership involved with a salesman to show him this vital safety feature.

How else could this information have been communicated to someone unfamiliar with the vehicle? Sure it's probably in the owner's manual, which he apparently was looking through in his attempts to escape. But how many people read their owner's manuals, provided they're even available for a used car?

 

[Olowkow]

Texas man, dog die after being trapped in Corvette

(Bolding mine) My question is: why did he not know that?

For background, the key fob is the standard way to open the car's door. I'm guessing there isn't a interior latch on the door itself, possibly to achieve a clean look to the interior.

The car's from 2007, so it's possible he bought it used. In that case, there may not have been a dealership involved with a salesman to show him this vital safety feature.

How else could this information have been communicated to someone unfamiliar with the vehicle? Sure it's probably in the owner's manual, which he apparently was looking through in his attempts to escape. But how many people read their owner's manuals, provided they're even available for a used car?

It could be that he knew at one time, but forgot in the panic of being overheated. May have been drinking, hypoglycemic. So many possibilities. Such a sad story.

I have a friend with a 2011 Corvette. When he showed it to me the first time, he made a point of demonstrating how to operate the doors without power; exactly what is shown in the video below. I shuddered at the thought of what would happen if the driver died, or was unconscious in an accident, and the passenger didn't know how to exit. I didn't pursue what I thought was a really bad idea.

I think that just because technology can and engineers will create such seemingly "cool features", it doesn't mean that they should.

How to Enter & Exit a Corvette With a Dead Battery



I have a 2012 Toyota Avalon with the keyless entry and ignition, and to be honest, having been in electronics repair for over 30 years, this "cool feature" worries me in many ways in terms of what could go wrong. At least I still have door handles on the inside though.

A former coworker and friend was involved recently in troubleshooting a problem in a neighborhood of about 8 houses. Their remote auto entry devices would not work on some days, and they were telling police it must be a ham radio operator. Since I am a fellow ham, I consulted with him. He could clearly see the interfering UHF signal on his spectrum analyzer, but couldn't pinpoint the source. The signal was very strong and right next to the frequency that car door fobs use, which was de-sensing their receivers. After his visit to the neighborhood, the problem disappeared.

We concluded that very likely some kid with too much time on his hands probably either constructed or bought a cell phone jammer and was pranking his neighbors. If this was in fact a prank, it could conceivably been a dangerous one if someone had needed to get to a hospital.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

I have a Toyota minivan. It shipped with one robot door and optionally could upgrade to both side doors powered. I declined. And of course the "warranty extension/recall" letter for the doors covered only one failure mode of several possibilities and not the one mine experienced.

More features is not always better and certainly not on egress points.

 

[jimbob]

I have a Toyota minivan. It shipped with one robot door and optionally could upgrade to both side doors powered. I declined. And of course the "warranty extension/recall" letter for the doors covered only one failure mode of several possibilities and not the one mine experienced.

More features is not always better and certainly not on egress points.

Indeed. The question of what happens when something goes wrong is an obvious one.

As far as the vehicle in the OP was concerned I am slightly surprised that this wasn't flagged up in the routine risk analysis in the design phase.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm surprised he couldn't break the window. I keep an emergency tool in my car with a window punch and a seatbelt blade. But I'm pretty sure if I didn't have it and I had the time one would have it one was just locked in and not sinking in the lake or something that I could break the window.

It's a bizarre event.

It's sad. There should be a warning label somewhere in the cab like on the dash if this flaw was known and it was.

 

[angrysoba]

I'm surprised he couldn't break the window.

He was 72, which may have made him less able to break through the glass.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I keep a crowbar in my truck cab for breaking windows in emergencies. Skeptic Ginger, do you have one of these?

 

[Ron Swanson]

That year of corvette has an emergency release on the floor in roughly the same area trunk releases are placed in cars now (it's a lever you lift up) ... AND it's on both sides too.

The guy was not familiar with his new "cool" sports car that's all.

Yeggster

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

That year of corvette has an emergency release on the floor in roughly the same area trunk releases are placed in cars now (it's a lever you lift up) ... AND it's on both sides too.

The guy was not familiar with his new "cool" sports car that's all.

Yeggster

When they sell that car they'll note that the original owner's manual is still in glove compartment.

And this vehicle will be a candidate for the "strange smell they couldn't get rid of" stories.

 

[ddt]

Indeed. The question of what happens when something goes wrong is an obvious one.

As far as the vehicle in the OP was concerned I am slightly surprised that this wasn't flagged up in the routine risk analysis in the design phase.

I agree with that. Not having simple mechanical door levers in the place you expect them seems like a really bad idea. My current, as well as my previous car, is a Renault Laguna model II, which has a similar "keyless" entry and ignition system, and I've been wondering about a couple of safey features of it myself too.

First, something I actually encountered in a situation that could have become hazardous. For ignition, you're supposed to be put the "key" into a slot in the dashboard, but that really is only for convenience. The thing relies not on wired contact, but works wireless (RFID?). I experienced this when I drove back my car from the tyre centre where they had changed my tyres. The mechanic had driven the car out of the shop, and well, you think the key is in the ignition, then, so I hadn't looked at it, and halfway home discovered it was not. Turned out, he had put the key under a windshield wiper. And that, apparently, was close enough to the circuitry in the car to detect it. Fortunately, it was not raining that day, I really don't want to think about what would have happened if I had lost the key in traffic.

Second, for emergency entry these systems still have a mechanical backup; in my car's case, you pull out a small mechanical key out of the electronic key and similarly, pull out a piece from the door handle to uncover a mechanical lock. But aren't then these simple mechanical locks easier to open then if you had put in a mechanical lock in the first place with all possible safety features?

Thirdly, there's also the possibility that the battery in the key runs out. In fact, my car has been warning me for that the last couple of times, so thanks for the reminder I should replace the battery (or just use the spare key instead).

 

[Blue Mountain]

I'm surprised he couldn't break the window. I keep an emergency tool in my car with a window punch and a seatbelt blade.

That's an excellent idea. Perhaps it should be standard equipment on all vehicles and part of a driver training course.

But I'm pretty sure if I didn't have it and I had the time one would have it one was just locked in and not sinking in the lake or something that I could break the window.

Maybe, or maybe not. The glass used in side windows is pretty tough stuff, and is probably laminated. Which means you need to break through the layer closest to you, then the laminate layer, and finally the layer further from you. That may be possible if you have good shoes and use the strength in your legs.

It's a bizarre event.

It's sad. There should be a warning label somewhere in the cab like on the dash if this flaw was known and it was.

People can develop a blindness to these labels after a while. But if there was such a label, this man would likely have remembered the information on it when he became trapped in his car.

 

[Blue Mountain]

That year of corvette has an emergency release on the floor in roughly the same area trunk releases are placed in cars now (it's a lever you lift up) ... AND it's on both sides too.

The guy was not familiar with his new "cool" sports car that's all.

The primary purpose of this thread is to examine this very issue and discuss ideas for preventing such a tragedy from happening in the future. Simply being "unfamiliar" with something as common as passenger car--and this person obviously was familiar with cars, since he had a driver's license--should not be a death sentence.

 

[casebro]

My brother hit a patch of ice and flipped his pick up into the Big Thompson river canyon. Mechanical doors jammed, electric window would not work. Good thing he had a pair of ice skates to break the window with.

I know people who carry an "automatic center punch" in their cars for such use. It's got a mechanism like a ball point pen clicker. Push it against the window, and KAPOW, it's like hitting it with a hammer.

Personally, I've never owned a vehicle with electric windows or locks. Mine all still have vent wings too. If giving kids a lift, they often ask what that crank handle is for. I'll buy a cell phone when they make them with rotatary dials.

 

[jimbob]

The primary purpose of this thread is to examine this very issue and discuss ideas for preventing such a tragedy from happening in the future. Simply being "unfamiliar" with something as common as passenger car--and this person obviously was familiar with cars, since he had a driver's license--should not be a death sentence.

Yes

I can also imagine crash situations where a passer-by would be unable to reach that* to get the person out. On any individual car, this would be a very low probability, but over the total production history of a car, this must be far more likely.

*Even if they were familiar enough with the car to know about it.

 

[Bikewer]

Another excuse for concealed carry... In addition to the hammer-like device show, you can obtain any number of small, unobtrusive (pen-sized) window breakers these days. Some are spring-loaded...Press against the window and a little sharp spike shatters the window.

We have a device in the patrol cars which doubles as a window-breaker and a safety seat-belt cutter. Looks like a little fish.

 

[casebro]

Luddite that I am, I am not knowledgeable on electric doors. If I get a ride in someone's late model car, how would I identify the potential, and know to look for the ejection handle? Then I could also educate the owners.

Though I do think I've seen too many little handles beside a seat. I'll have to look closely.

 

[Mike!]

Luddite that I am, I am not knowledgeable on electric doors. If I get a ride in someone's late model car, how would I identify the potential, and know to look for the ejection handle? Then I could also educate the owners.

Though I do think I've seen too many little handles beside a seat. I'll have to look closely.

While it's not a late model, I think they're still the same. Little red button under the top of the shift.

 

[casebro]

While it's not a late model, I think they're still the same. Little red button under the top of the shift.

I've certainly had troubles getting into cars,what withbad timing between the driver allowing the door to un-lock and me pulling on the handle. But I never thought that I was actually locked in unless the driver let me out. Again, I have to pay more attention next "new" car I ride in. I had thought most of this thread was about a new fangled electric LATCH. I do see more cars with electric motor driven doors though, mini van's sliders especially.

 

[Olowkow]

I agree with that. Not having simple mechanical door levers in the place you expect them seems like a really bad idea. My current, as well as my previous car, is a Renault Laguna model II, which has a similar "keyless" entry and ignition system, and I've been wondering about a couple of safey features of it myself too.

First, something I actually encountered in a situation that could have become hazardous. For ignition, you're supposed to be put the "key" into a slot in the dashboard, but that really is only for convenience. The thing relies not on wired contact, but works wireless (RFID?). I experienced this when I drove back my car from the tyre centre where they had changed my tyres. The mechanic had driven the car out of the shop, and well, you think the key is in the ignition, then, so I hadn't looked at it, and halfway home discovered it was not. Turned out, he had put the key under a windshield wiper. And that, apparently, was close enough to the circuitry in the car to detect it. Fortunately, it was not raining that day, I really don't want to think about what would have happened if I had lost the key in traffic.

Second, for emergency entry these systems still have a mechanical backup; in my car's case, you pull out a small mechanical key out of the electronic key and similarly, pull out a piece from the door handle to uncover a mechanical lock. But aren't then these simple mechanical locks easier to open then if you had put in a mechanical lock in the first place with all possible safety features?

Thirdly, there's also the possibility that the battery in the key runs out. In fact, my car has been warning me for that the last couple of times, so thanks for the reminder I should replace the battery (or just use the spare key instead).

With the type of remote entry that senses your key in the purse or pocket, there is even a risk from parking too close to high tension lines disabling the receiver, according to the owner's manual for my Toyota.

The small mechanical key will get you into the car in case of a dead key fob battery, but if it is totally dead, you won't be able to start the car once you are in. The manual recommends then pressing the fob against the start button (closest range for RF detection). That is where it gets scary for an old RF design guy.

I have experienced twice the situation that my trunk remote opening would not work at all, but everything else worked. So I checked the battery. It was low, and I replaced it after which everything worked as it should. I wonder if refusal to open the trunk is a possible battery low indicator??? Sort of a "time to replace" indication.

Indeed. The question of what happens when something goes wrong is an obvious one.

As far as the vehicle in the OP was concerned I am slightly surprised that this wasn't flagged up in the routine risk analysis in the design phase.

What if the passenger wants out of the car? Does the driver have to give permission if he/she does not know the secret door release? And what if a kid grabs it thinking it is a toy handle? Can the doors be opened during high speed?

I did notice that as we were walking away from my friend's Corvette, he didn't lock it. I asked if he wanted to lock it. He told me it locks itself when he is out of range. Nice feature, I guess. Not sure though.

ETA: Incidentally, if you have the RFID type of keyless entry, be sure that your key is stored far enough from the car in the house if you have a carport or garage to prevent the little LED from flashing on the key fob. Otherwise, your car is not secure.

 

[jimbob]

What if the passenger wants out of the car? Does the driver have to give permission if he/she does not know the secret door release? And what if a kid grabs it thinking it is a toy handle? Can the doors be opened during high speed?

I did notice that as we were walking away from my friend's Corvette, he didn't lock it. I asked if he wanted to lock it. He told me it locks itself when he is out of range. Nice feature, I guess. Not sure though.

ETA: Incidentally, if you have the RFID type of keyless entry, be sure that your key is stored far enough from the car in the house if you have a carport or garage to prevent the little LED from flashing on the key fob. Otherwise, your car is not secure.

Yes to all these

First para: I suppose it is ideal if you want to abduct hitchhikers, although I am not totally sure that is an angle which the brand-managers would want for a marketing campaign.


Second para: I seem to recall some cars with button openings, can be set to only unlock one door so that unwanted people can't come in. That seems a reasonable security precaution for many places. This doesn't.
Also, "just popping into a shop" with the car outside

If I get too feeble to press a button to unlock my car or turn a key, I think I should consider stopping driving.

Third para: And this is another problem with that.