Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Dougm]

First off, I think congratulations are in order to Vixen, approaching her/his/Xer 1,000th post!

Second, does the selective cleaning include Amanda and Raf's DNA? Or just their fingerprints?

If its just fingerprints, how did they know which ones were theirs, and which one's were Rudy's? With the lamp perhaps? That's more plausible somehow?

And how would they selectively clean only their own foot prints made in Meredith's wet blood?

And, I'm afraid to ask, by what manner of diabolical "deceit", did they manage to sucker Rudy into neglecting to flush?

Who knows? The Shadow Knows! Don't feel obligated to respond, I'm not really expecting any kind of rational answers - because there aren't any.

Don't you know? They did it with the magic soap! The kind only Amanda and Raffaele know about!! Clever little minx that Amanda is!

 

[Vixen]

The fact Amanda lived there, was enough to indicate a clean up, in that police found only one set of her fingerprints in the entire cottage, on a glass in the sink. Incidentally, Carbo, what was Raff's fingerprint doing on the inside of Mez' door?

Unless there was a one-legged perp, the fact only one-side of a shoe print was found, or a perp had half a foot, hence the part footprint on the bath mat, I think we can confidently aver there was a springclean.

ETA And Raff's fingerprints were nowhere to be found in his car.

 

[zotz]

Logic and osmosis (guilter style)

If Amanda was unsuccessful in completely cleaning the "bloody footprints" outside of Meredith's room then why are there no traces of her's and of Raffaele's footprints in the room where the murder happened and of course where there was a lot more blood? Considering that Amanda had wet feet when she got out of the shower and she stepped on the bathmat, wouldn't it be amazing if she did not have traces of blood on her damp feet? So even if you proved that it was blood on Amanda's feet (which you certainly cannot claim since no confirmatory blood test was done) it still would not be evidence of guilt. Whereas Rudy left massive amounts of evidence. No one could clean at a microscopic level while leaving all of Rudy's evidence alone. It is a ludicrous theory which the ISC finally recognized.

And after she performs this super-human cleaning effort, supposedly aimed at implicating Rudy, Amanda suddenly decides to protect Rudy at the questura, even though she supposedly knows that his footprints, DNA, feces, blood, and possibly semen is at the house in large amounts, and she amazingly decides (according to the guilters) to implicate Lumumba, a person that she must know is innocent and probably had an alibi and being hardly the athletic type, he could never be accused of breaking into second story windows.

This is only a small sample of the illogic of pro-guilt people.

 

[Grinder]

The fact Amanda lived there, was enough to indicate a clean up, in that police found only one set of her fingerprints in the entire cottage, on a glass in the sink. Incidentally, Carbo, what was Raff's fingerprint doing on the inside of Mez' door?

Unless there was a one-legged perp, the fact only one-side of a shoe print was found, or a perp had half a foot, hence the part footprint on the bath mat, I think we can confidently aver there was a springclean.

Do you have a list of all the prints found and where?

Did you read the prosecution's expert on fingerprints?

Do you know where they looked for Amanda's prints? Did they dust her guitar? Did they check the cottage knives?

 

[Dougm]

The fact Amanda lived there, was enough to indicate a clean up, in that police found only one set of her fingerprints in the entire cottage, on a glass in the sink. Incidentally, Carbo, what was Raff's fingerprint doing on the inside of Mez' door?
Unless there was a one-legged perp, the fact only one-side of a shoe print was found, or a perp had half a foot, hence the part footprint on the bath mat, I think we can confidently aver there was a springclean.

No, we can't. The evidence shows there was no clean up. And where do you get the idea that the lack of evidence is proof that someone committed a crime? Hey, the bank near me was robbed yesterday. There is no evidence you were there, but the cops want claim that is because you removed it! If we follow that logic, we can convict anyone of anything. Which is what the Perugian authorities are used to doing.

Re: the highlighted portion. I have never seen any indication Raff's fingerprint was on the inside of Meredith's door. Please provide proof of that, or retract the claim. If that were so, the prosecution would have used it as part of the case. But they didn't.

 

[Vixen]

If Amanda was unsuccessful in completely cleaning the "bloody footprints" outside of Meredith's room then why are there no traces of her's and of Raffaele's footprints in the room where the murder happened and of course where there was a lot more blood? Considering that Amanda had wet feet when she got out of the shower and she stepped on the bathmat, wouldn't it be amazing if she did not have traces of blood on her damp feet? So even if you proved that it was blood on Amanda's feet (which you certainly cannot claim since no confirmatory blood test was done) it still would not be evidence of guilt. Whereas Rudy left massive amounts of evidence. No one could clean at a microscopic level while leaving all of Rudy's evidence alone. It is a ludicrous theory which the ISC finally recognized.

And after she performs this super-human cleaning effort, supposedly aimed at implicating Rudy, Amanda suddenly decides to protect Rudy at the questura, even though she supposedly knows that his footprints, DNA, feces, blood, and possibly semen is at the house in large amounts, and she amazingly decides (according to the guilters) to implicate Lumumba, a person that she must know is innocent and probably had an alibi and being hardly the athletic type, he could never be accused of breaking into second story windows.

This is only a small sample of the illogic of pro-guilt people.

A ladies size 37 bloodied footprint was found in the murder room, together with Raff's fingerprint on the door, DNA on the bra clasp and various hairs suspiciously similar to theirs. What was the bloody footprint in Amanda's room? Why was Amanda's fingerprint found in blood on the bathroom lightswitch pressed down? Her blood was on the tap as of 2 Nov. So she was there, bleeding and leaving traces in the bidet, footprint in Filomena's room, glass shard in Mez' room, mixed DNA in five different places. Raff's footprint on bathmat.

Are you sure "there's no trace of Raff or Amanda"?

Surely you've heard of Amanda's awesome Bathmat Shuffle?

ETA. She can hardly name Rudy without giving away inside knowledge.

 

[Grinder]

If a post can jump the shark, this one did.

Three questions: What was awesome about the shuffle that was given to the PLE before the Luminol tests btw.

Why wasn't her bloody fingerprint mentioned in the case?

Where did the prosecution claim she was bleeding from?

A ladies size 37 bloodied footprint was found in the murder room, together with Raff's fingerprint on the door, DNA on the bra clasp and various hairs suspiciously similar to theirs. What was the bloody footprint in Amanda's room? Why was Amanda's fingerprint found in blood on the bathroom lightswitch pressed down? Her blood was on the tap as of 2 Nov. So she was there, bleeding and leaving traces in the bidet, footprint in Filomena's room, glass shard in Mez' room, mixed DNA in five different places. Raff's footprint on bathmat.

Are you sure "there's no trace of Raff or Amanda"?

Surely you've heard of Amanda's awesome Bathmat Shuffle?

ETA. She can hardly name Rudy without giving away inside knowledge.

 

[zotz]

A ladies size 37 bloodied footprint was found in the murder room, together with Raff's fingerprint on the door, DNA on the bra clasp and various hairs suspiciously similar to theirs. What was the bloody footprint in Amanda's room? Why was Amanda's fingerprint found in blood on the bathroom lightswitch pressed down? Her blood was on the tap as of 2 Nov. So she was there, bleeding and leaving traces in the bidet, footprint in Filomena's room, glass shard in Mez' room, mixed DNA in five different places. Raff's footprint on bathmat.

Are you sure "there's no trace of Raff or Amanda"?

Surely you've heard of Amanda's awesome Bathmat Shuffle?

ETA. She can hardly name Rudy without giving away inside knowledge.

Didn't DougM ask you where that stuff about Raffaele's fingerprint came from and you simply ignored him? Interesting tactic... you make stuff up and then ignore people when they ask for proof. Great idea! But anybody could do that. You seem to be probing the outer limits of sophistry. Where did you get all this crap? Let me guess... Barbie, right? Did you know that she couldn't even be bothered to proof read the forward to her own book? It said that Meredith was 22 when she was killed. Either Barbie didn't know Meredith's real age or she couldn't be bothered to read her own book.

It was probably both!

 

[Strozzi]

. . .

The rest of the prank call story doesn't seem important to the murder, unless Napoleoni was there when the phones came flying in and she recognized Rudi's full court passing style.

It is fortunate that Napoleoni wasn't in Lana's garden when Rudi came strolling by. She might have gotten hit by a rock before the phones came flying in.

 

[Strozzi]

Didn't DougM ask you where that stuff about Raffaele's fingerprint came from and you simply ignored him? Interesting tactic... you make stuff up and then ignore people when they ask for proof. Great idea! But anybody could do that. You seem to be probing the outer limits of sophistry. Where did you get all this crap? Let me guess... Barbie, right? Did you know that she couldn't even be bothered to proof read the forward to her own book? It said that Meredith was 22 when she was killed. Either Barbie didn't know Meredith's real age or she couldn't be bothered to read her own book.

It was probably both!

Zotz, I don't think the information came from Barbie. If you are looking to understand how this whole case occurred, there is an excellent new book about the case that can explain everything. It's published on Amazon. It's by a guy named van der Leek. Apparently Mossad was involved.

I got a chance to read it last week.

 

[Strozzi]

duplicate

 

[Dan O.]

The bleach reciept story started shortly after November 16 when the police had searched Raffaele's place and discovered the two bottles of bleach under his kitchen sink and several receipts in a drawer with empty shopping bags.

From the video, I think the police were hallucinating and seeing what the wanted to find because when they found a reciept inside a CONAD bag they brought the camera in for a dramatic replay putting the reciept back in the bag, putting the bag back in the drawer and then filmed it being discovered all over again. But that reciept had a much earlier date and none of the prices matched the price on the bleach.

Some local news collected in the days following the search:

• Republica 2007-11-16 (knife DNA): "Under the sink in the studio for the boy's team Ert seized two drums of bleach, one empty and one half and a bucket full of rags and sponges."
• 2007-11-17 (fourth man): Police yesterday raided by scientific seized another knife, all the dishes, numerous receipts (probably in search of evidence of purchase of the bleach used to clean the 'housing) and even the lives of the drainpipe.
• Republica 2007-11-18 (order of arrest): The team Ert (experts track search) on Friday morning, however, in his studio in Corso Garibaldi found two receipts proving that 's purchase (at different times, well before 10) as many boxes of bleach Ace November 2, the morning after 'killing of Meredith Kercher. According to investigators Amanda and Raffaele with disinfectant that would seek to remove all traces from the knife found in the kitchen after the student from Puglia.
• 2007-11-18 (Interview with Meredith Kercher's "fidanzato" Giacomo Silenzi): PERUGIA - While the hunt for the fourth man continues in the strictest of confidence, the thriller of Perugia lost one of the pieces in the last hour had seemed decisive: in the minutes on the search in Raffaele Sollecito's house there are no receipts dated November 2, the day after 'murder of British student Meredith Kercher.
• Republica 2007-11-19 (staging): Luca Maori, the lawyer for the student Giovinazzo, then swears that the receipts found by police in the studio for the boy (three in all and dated in time away from crime) have no importance in the 'investigation.

This story was dead two days after it broke but some pro guilt posters keep bringing it up. If that 2007-11-18 reference to the minutes of the search isn't authoritive enough, read the minutes themselves.


Btw, that list is a fragment from my wiki. This is all information that has been publicly available for years. I just put it in a structure that allows it to be organized, indexed and searched.

 

[Dan O.]

The fact Amanda lived there, was enough to indicate a clean up, in that police found only one set of her fingerprints in the entire cottage, on a glass in the sink. Incidentally, Carbo, what was Raff's fingerprint doing on the inside of Mez' door?

Unless there was a one-legged perp, the fact only one-side of a shoe print was found, or a perp had half a foot, hence the part footprint on the bath mat, I think we can confidently aver there was a springclean.

When did this cleaning take place? HA HA HA HA HA! We got you there. You can't put any of this into a time line because the inconsistencies are ginormous.

 

[Dan O.]

A ladies size 37 bloodied footprint was found in the murder room, together with Raff's fingerprint on the door, DNA on the bra clasp and various hairs suspiciously similar to theirs. What was the bloody footprint in Amanda's room? Why was Amanda's fingerprint found in blood on the bathroom lightswitch pressed down? Her blood was on the tap as of 2 Nov. So she was there, bleeding and leaving traces in the bidet, footprint in Filomena's room, glass shard in Mez' room, mixed DNA in five different places. Raff's footprint on bathmat.

Are you sure "there's no trace of Raff or Amanda"?

Surely you've heard of Amanda's awesome Bathmat Shuffle?

ETA. She can hardly name Rudy without giving away inside knowledge.

More refuted guilter talking points being repeated yet again by the same poster. It was Gish Gallop the first time. now it is just spam.

 

[Numbers]

Links to witness statements & testimony

1. Could someone post the links to the relevant testimony?
....

2. The rest of the prank call story doesn't seem important to the murder, unless Napoleoni was there when the phones came flying in and she recognized Rudi's full court passing style.

1.a http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/witness-depositions/

See Nov. 3, 2007: Alessando Capasso
See Nov. 2, 2007: Elisabetta Lana, Alessandro Biscarini, Fiammetta Biscarini

(statements above currently only in Italian on the site)

Last few lines of Capasso's statement Google translated:

The evening of October 31, 2007 I was in a pizzeria with some of my friends {names omitted for brevity} ... We were at the pizzeria The Wolverine to celebrate Halloween and we decided to do the usual jokes in the middle of my cell phone. We called several utilities including one 075451595 that, just as you {will exhibit? by} esibisco showing you my cell phone, I performed at 21:48 31.10.2007. I remember that we said at that 'nominee {person called}"be careful that you have a bomb in the toilet" and then abbiamo {we had} interrupted the call. I want to clarify that I do not know absolutely the person to whom we have {called} and the number {that} has been entered in the event. I have nothing to add.

Regarding the difference in phone numbers (an additional digit, 5, at the end of the one given by Capasso compared to that given by Lana and her family), if it is not a typo, it may be some kind of check digit (a guess on my part, others may know more about this).

1.b http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/amanda-knox-transcripts/

See Feb. 6, 2009 Elisabetta Lana, Alessandro Biscarini, and Fiametta Biscarini (Italian & English translation available on the site)

2. Now there's an interesting thought. Is there any documentation to support this hypothesis?

 

[Dan O.]

...
Regarding the difference in phone numbers (an additional digit, 5, at the end of the one given by Capasso compared to that given by Lana and her family), if it is not a typo, it may be some kind of check digit (a guess on my part, others may know more about this).

If that isn't clearly an attempt to dial a random number as a prank, they were really cleaver in adding that extra 5 to make the pattern abundantly clear. The extra digit would be recorded in the phones memory because that is what was dialed. The exchange would simply drop the extra digits. Have you not seen this in advertised numbers that are extended to make a word?

 

[Numbers]

Links to witness statements & testimony

Deleted duplicate

 

[Numbers]

1.a http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/witness-depositions/

See Nov. 3, 2007: Alessando Capasso
See Nov. 2, 2007: Elisabetta Lana, Alessandro Biscarini, Fiammetta Biscarini

(statements above currently only in Italian on the site)

Last few lines of Capasso's statement Google translated:



Regarding the difference in phone numbers (an additional digit, 5, at the end of the one given by Capasso compared to that given by Lana and her family), if it is not a typo, it may be some kind of check digit (a guess on my part, others may know more about this).

1.b http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/amanda-knox-transcripts/

See Feb. 6, 2009 Elisabetta Lana, Alessandro Biscarini, and Fiametta Biscarini (Italian & English translation available on the site)

On the Nov. 2 witness statements, Ms. Lana stated that the prank call came about 10 pm on Nov. 1, while her son and daughter each stated it came about 10 pm but neither provided a date. The police must have considered the call important, at least after the murder, since they obtained Capasso's statement in Terni at 3:40 am on Nov. 3, in the presence of a Perugian police Chief Inspector. It is puzzling that the police and prosecutor did not attempt to resolve the differences in the date of the prank call as stated by the alleged caller compared to the alleged recipient.

 

[Dan O.]

Déjà vu

 

[Bill Williams]

A ladies size 37 bloodied footprint was found in the murder room, together with Raff's fingerprint on the door, DNA on the bra clasp and various hairs suspiciously similar to theirs. What was the bloody footprint in Amanda's room? Why was Amanda's fingerprint found in blood on the bathroom lightswitch pressed down? Her blood was on the tap as of 2 Nov. So she was there, bleeding and leaving traces in the bidet, footprint in Filomena's room, glass shard in Mez' room, mixed DNA in five different places. Raff's footprint on bathmat.

Are you sure "there's no trace of Raff or Amanda"?

Surely you've heard of Amanda's awesome Bathmat Shuffle?

ETA. She can hardly name Rudy without giving away inside knowledge.

None of this is true. A ladies size 37 was NOT found in Meredith's room. Raffaele's fingerprint was not found in the room. The foot mark on the bathmat is more properly called a "foottrack" for the reasons outlined in the Massei report. It is on pliant material, which would not hold a print. The expert in the Massei report said that even looking at the original, rather than a photo, meant that the identity of the track was inconclusive. But why let that get i the way of a good story.

Strangely enough, Raffaele's fingerprints were probably on the outer door-handle. However, they were not "found" because the PLE did not search the outer door for anything.

Why? At trial we were told that the PLE did not regard the outer part of Meredith's door as part of the crime scene.

Now that the two are exonerated (for obvious reasons) it is amazing this stuff is still being circulated.