Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yep. It can be very difficult to determine hair color from a single hair even under a scope, much less from a poor quality photograph.


I've never seen the crime scene video where a scientific police officer is collecting the hair from Miss Kercher's genitalia and then bagging it, as B. Nadeau writes.

Nor did I watch the crime seen video and see him remove the one that was photographed in her upraised left hands grasp.

Have you or anyone else here seen these video's?

I doubt that the hair or fiber was blue, from her sweatshirt/jacket.
I happen to have done a few basic tests, yes dark hair, black or brown is a bit different than my own beach blonde hair when seen in person...

But the quote from Nadeau,
if she is quoting it from the crime scene video,
she says a male police officer pulled a long hair from Kercher's blood-soaked hand.
"It's blonde."

As is the 1 also found upon examination, done in her bedroom, of her genitalia.


Nadeau also writes of discussion of Kercher's fingernails.
MichaelB, have you seen the crime scene video where this was done?
Are you stating that this never occurred or was made up?

"She has long fingernails, doesn't she?" asked Stefanoni, examining Meredith's hand.
"She has medium long fingernails, corrected the officer. He found no skin cells under the nails to show that she struggled for her life, but he put plastic bags over both hands to preserve the nails for further analysis. The police then lifted Meredith's head to measure the knife wound to her neck.
"Mamma mia," said Stefanoni.
"E abbastanza profondo-It's pretty deep" said the officer.
etc.

* * *

From reading elsewhere,
the Italian SC seems to somewhat believe a 2nd perp might have been involved.
From a link that Scribbler at IIP posted:
Expertise coroner found that Meredith suffered sexual harassment and died after being wounded with some stab wounds, a blow to the throat launched. No one, at this point, can say if Rudy Guede has done everything himself or if someone helped him to immobilize the English girl and then he struck the fatal blow.


I've posted before that I think this hair,
if it is indeed so a hair, might be a light colored pubic hair from a guy,
for it's quite curvy like from a dude who does not trim his genital area at all...

But Nadeau says the hair was long.
Kercher had a Brazilian, no blonde hair was down there.
Nor shoulda been in her bloodied hand.

If that is indeed a long blonde hair,
and it is indeed seminal fluid,
and it is not from Rudy Guede,
someone was with him, maybe Koko,
and it was covered-up...
My opinion only.
RW
 
Last edited:
She also claimed bleach receipts, IIRC.

Hi RoseMontague,
I remember this, and yep, there are a lot of other mistakes in this book of hers.

However,
Nadeau writes of there being roughly 10 hours of crime scene video footage,
of which we who are interested have only seen a coupla hours of it.

I'd really be curious to know if The Defense has info on this hair,
for they must have copies of these vidz, right?

Does Stefanoni call them blonde hair as they were collected?
+
Who released the photo of Kercher's hand with the hair into the public domain?

And I'd really like to see the missing video from when the cops and Mignini
1st went into the downstairs crime scene,
for strangely, that part is edited out after Zugarini kicks the window in,
as is the part showing the 1st entrance to the boyz bedrooms, etc...

Anyways,
thanks for the input everyone,
and thanks MichaelB for all the postings this month which you did,
much info in there!

Goodnight from Los Angeles,
RW
 
Last edited:
I couldn't figure out quite what was in the image. I see two fingers extending into the image from the top and I see what looks like a piece of hair curled up a bit beneath the fingers. Is this supposed to be the photo of Kercher gripping a hair? I don't see that at all. Although the photo doesn't show the hand well enough to know, it doesn't look like it is in a gripping position. Is it even possible that Kercher's hand could have gripped something after she was dead?

There is a better picture of this particular hair in relation to Meredith's hand, if I remember correctly. Still impossible to determine hair color, in my opinion it could be a variety of browns or blonde/brunette shades.
 
The missing hair is Rep. 14. There's nothing in the SAL about it.

Sample hair formations taken from the external part of the vagina of the victim (delivered personally by the writer the pathologist Dr. Lalli) - page 19 A.F./39 R;

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/test_results_index_translated.doc

I find it shocking that certain PGP elements place great store in undateable, unidentified hair samples, which, ultimately they wish to put forward as good evidence of Amanda's presence in the room when Kercher was slaughtered. But the crucial evidence of presence and of participation in the murder found against Guede is not there against Amanda or against Raffaele.

But is the evidence actually more determinative than simply saying that the samples could not be identified? Could the science actually have ruled out from the physical samples that any belonged to Amanda? Did this happen?

There was no attempt to put forward, as circumstantial evidence, the theory that any hair sample belonged to Amanda in the sense that Amanda could not be ruled out as the person who deposited the sample.
 
I couldn't figure out quite what was in the image. I see two fingers extending into the image from the top and I see what looks like a piece of hair curled up a bit beneath the fingers. Is this supposed to be the photo of Kercher gripping a hair? I don't see that at all. Although the photo doesn't show the hand well enough to know, it doesn't look like it is in a gripping position. Is it even possible that Kercher's hand could have gripped something after she was dead?


Hi Davefoc,
Here's a link to old Perugia Shock,
http://web.archive.org/web/20110504...logspot.com/2008/10/pointing-at-murderer.html
this blog post shows Kercher's upraised left arm + hand better,
but not the hair strand.

It also shows you the 2 tiny cuts on her right hand,
and the bruises on her elbows.

I've speculated that these might have been from prior intimate encounters with her new boyfriend Giacomo, as they were experimenting with their luv making, as Barbie Nadeau wrote of in Angel Face.

Most don't think that the bruises were from a coupla days earlier..

Lastly,
this links shows the location of the bruises:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182552/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_10_01_archive.html
See ya, RW
 
Last edited:
There are a variety of 2 & 3 Nov good quality photos of the purse. None show the hair that has been mentioned at TJMK that I have seen.
 

Attachments

  • purseMK.JPG
    purseMK.JPG
    84.5 KB · Views: 8
This is the slide from Stefi's powerpoint DNA presentation dealing with the same purse (not even collected on 2 & 3 November). No hair mentioned. Trace A was positive for a mix of MK and RG DNA.
 

Attachments

  • PSslideMKpurse.JPG
    PSslideMKpurse.JPG
    101.8 KB · Views: 8
She also claimed bleach receipts, IIRC.

I'm not sure I'd go quite that far with Nadeau as to say "pathological liar". We've seen those, like NVDL or PQ who have well earned the monicker.

But Nadeau comes across as biased, ignorant, malicious, and lazy. She'll report the lies the prosecution tells her, and not investigate further, or think through what she's reporting. But are those "her lies"?

Vogt was the same way to a lesser extent, imo. They took the sides of the prosecution.

There is a 'pathological liar' in the mix, but its Mignini, prosecutors, police, and I'm sorry to add some of the judges.

Cassation's report in June will be interesting, as will any follow-up investigations. My guess is Stef and a few police, are toast. Mignini may get egg on his face and get pushed to retire. Stef, ficarra, Napoleone, and zugarini may go to jail for a year. My prediction, at least my prediction for today.
 
I'm not sure I'd go quite that far with Nadeau as to say "pathological liar". We've seen those, like NVDL or PQ who have well earned the monicker.

But Nadeau comes across as biased, ignorant, malicious, and lazy. She'll report the lies the prosecution tells her, and not investigate further, or think through what she's reporting. But are those "her lies"?

Vogt was the same way to a lesser extent, imo. They took the sides of the prosecution.

There is a 'pathological liar' in the mix, but its Mignini, prosecutors, police, and I'm sorry to add some of the judges.

Cassation's report in June will be interesting, as will any follow-up investigations. My guess is Stef and a few police, are toast. Mignini may get egg on his face and get pushed to retire. Stef, ficarra, Napoleone, and zugarini may go to jail for a year. My prediction, at least my prediction for today.

I'd be surprised if these officials really get punished. It's rare in the U.S. And my guess is that it is even more rare in Italy.
 
I'm not sure I'd go quite that far with Nadeau as to say "pathological liar". We've seen those, like NVDL or PQ who have well earned the monicker.

But Nadeau comes across as biased, ignorant, malicious, and lazy. She'll report the lies the prosecution tells her, and not investigate further, or think through what she's reporting. But are those "her lies"?

Vogt was the same way to a lesser extent, imo. They took the sides of the prosecution.

There is a 'pathological liar' in the mix, but its Mignini, prosecutors, police, and I'm sorry to add some of the judges.

Cassation's report in June will be interesting, as will any follow-up investigations. My guess is Stef and a few police, are toast. Mignini may get egg on his face and get pushed to retire. Stef, ficarra, Napoleone, and zugarini may go to jail for a year. My prediction, at least my prediction for today.

Nadeau is too lazy as a journalist to be called a liar.
 
It seems to me that there is no point in getting hung up on the definition of the word "framed" or the word "framing" when discussing the genuine problem of police and/or prosecution manufacturing evidence. The important bit is that police and prosecutors do sometimes manufacture evidence in an effort to obtain a conviction, and that seems to be the issue here.

At the point when the police and/or prosecution manufacture evidence to try to obtain a conviction, the accused is presumed innocent, is quite possibly factually innocent, and is certainly not known to be guilty, so it seems reasonable to use the terminology of "framed" or "framing" in relation to manufactured evidence.

That said, I can appreciate the semantic quibble as well, but I just don't see any purpose in getting sidetracked with such a semantic quibble. So, perhaps the interested parties can agree to refer to it as manufactured evidence rather than "framing" if that would help to progress the discussion instead of bogging it down in silly semantic sidetracks.

Just a suggestion.

You really think the five pages of hair is more important? :p

Look if I say there was exculpatory evidence held back that means the person was innocent isn't correct because there can be exculpatory evidence that doesn't prove innocence. Should we change the definition because some people here want to misuse it?

If someone says he hit a sacrifice fly should that mean a run scored from third or should it just mean a fly ball that could have scored someone from third if there had been someone on third was hit?

Some here claim that the kids were framed from day one or day 5 or pick a date. If it means they broke the law in how they interviewed the kids that isn't framing. It just isn't because of what the word means. If we use words how ever we want, they have no meaning.

When I and all those that accept the definition hear someone was framed or that the policed framed him it means he didn't do it. Generally it means the framers knew he was innocent or at least thought so. It is a far different act to "find" evidence against someone guilty of the crime. In an extreme example evidence not allowed made everyone sure of guilt (bloody print on murder weapon) and then other evidence is manufactured, which isn't legal but the person isn't framed.

I do not believe the police were framing the kids before their arrest, but they used interview techniques that produced poor results and didn't follow the law. The were overzealous. They broke the law.

Btw, nothing to do with Newton.
 
Frankly I'm sick of the discussion about whether corruption in the prosecution of defendants may only be called "framing" when the defendant is actually innocent. I find it both sophomoric and pedantic. It makes me want to scream!

Too bad. It's the definition. Why don't you call police misconduct a sacrifice fly?

informal
produce false evidence against (an innocent person) so that they appear guilty.
"he claims he was framed"


I can understand you preference for imprecision.

With your preference, what would "he claims he was framed (by the police)" mean?
 
There is a photo of a hair in her hand. It was not tested. It is not discussed in her slide (powerpoint) presentation from what I remember and I have seen that numerous times. It was not tested nor listed in the SAL's from what I remember either. I had made a high quality conversion of her powerpoint to a pdf at one time and Hans coverted it to a lower quality one that could be downloaded at IA on the first trial transcripts thread. The SAL's I posted here several years ago.

I cannot remember if this hair was described in the SALs. There were many hairs and fibers tested or listed, several dozen I think. There were no results with the exception of Meredith's I think.

If I have time later I will review the SALs re: hair. I had made a sort of flash card of the SALs which were easier for me to read and place in order.
 
As for what appeared to be hairlike filaments found on the victim's body, when examined under a microscope they appeared to be strands of wool and gave no results.
Only the DNA of the victim was found in the samples taken from underneath the fingernails. It was noted, however, that the nails were very short and probably could not have given any significant scratches to the attacker.


Can we please end this pedantic discussion on hairs? If not, please produce court documents indicating the court gave a flying hoot about the hairs found.

Could hair proponents please provide a list of all hair colors and lengths for all people in the cottage and their friends?
 
I cannot remember if this hair was described in the SALs. There were many hairs and fibers tested or listed, several dozen I think. There were no results with the exception of Meredith's I think.

If I have time later I will review the SALs re: hair. I had made a sort of flash card of the SALs which were easier for me to read and place in order.

They are nothing short of a headache waiting to happen. You were better at reading them than me. Thanks for your help.
 
Too bad. It's the definition. Why don't you call police misconduct a sacrifice fly?

informal
produce false evidence against (an innocent person) so that they appear guilty.
"he claims he was framed"


I can understand you preference for imprecision.

With your preference, what would "he claims he was framed (by the police)" mean?

Wow! We've been over this a hundred times. I've read the different definitions too. I'm going to keep calling it framing. Probably for two reasons. One, I can't think of anything else to call it and two, because it annoys you.
 
As for what appeared to be hairlike filaments found on the victim's body, when examined under a microscope they appeared to be strands of wool and gave no results.
Only the DNA of the victim was found in the samples taken from underneath the fingernails. It was noted, however, that the nails were very short and probably could not have given any significant scratches to the attacker.


Can we please end this pedantic discussion on hairs? If not, please produce court documents indicating the court gave a flying hoot about the hairs found.

Could hair proponents please provide a list of all hair colors and lengths for all people in the cottage and their friends?

At least the discussion about the hairs is about the case and not semantics.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom