Drop in Religious and specifically Christian

[seayakin]

From the New York Times:

Big Drop in Share of Americans Calling Themselves Christian

The Rise of Young Americans Who Don’t Believe in God

I generally look at this as positive news but I'm also skeptical that is a trend that would be sustained over the next 50 years.

Do others think also that some of the evangelical push back is related to these trends? Specifically, I think of the opposition to gay marriage and also people like Mike Huckabee wanted to declare the US a "Secular Christian" nation.

 

[catsmate]

Interesting. Not that unexpected really but it seems to me that the decline in the USA is slower than (say) Ireland.

 

[Bikewer]

I mentioned before that NPR did a week-long series on Morning Edition a few months ago called "Loosing Our Religion"....Addressing this topic.

It was interesting, but it was also obvious that these young folks were not running out and becoming atheists....Rather they were dissillusioned with the "religion of their fathers" and were still often searching, trying out other religious traditions and looking for some species of spirituality that had connections for them.
It was also obvious that they were not rejecting the religion they were raised with as a result of intellectual scrutiny, but rather they just didn't "relate" to that particular faith.

 

[Aepervius]

I generally look at this as positive news but I'm also skeptical that is a trend that would be sustained over the next 50 years.

I think it might actually be sustained. All young persons I know of are on the net, far far more than we all were, they literally were born with it. So before they get "fed" in by religious story, they are on the net and get fed far far more various viewpoint. Have far more information accessible.

Once you get confronted earlier to so various viewpoint and religion, it becomes less justifiable or sustainable to pretend one is the true religion.

I don't think the younger generation is getting to be massively atheist.... But I do think a higher proportion will recognize specific religion either as not being a universal truth, or as a quaint things their parents did, something not very useful comapred to getting support from the net and social network rather than pray to an invisible god, without getting full blown "militant atheist" - iow not interrested into getting a board like JREF forum (oh wait it does not exist anymore anyway ).

 

[Aepervius]

Says it all IMO :

Younger adults have been particularly likely to join the unaffiliated in recent years. In 2007, 25 percent of 18-to-26-year-olds were unaffiliated; now 34 percent of the same cohort is unaffiliated.

There are few signs that the decline in Christian America will slow. Although some might assume that young people will become more religious as they age, the Pew data gives reason to think otherwise.

At the same time, every new cohort has been less affiliated than the last, with even the youngest millennials proving less affiliated, at 36 percent, than older millennials, at 34 percent.

 

[rjh01]

Might take a 2 or 3 generations to go from church going to atheist. Religion is not like politics where your opinion might change from year to year. It is almost a life long thing.

 

[Puppycow]

I generally look at this as positive news but I'm also skeptical that is a trend that would be sustained over the next 50 years.

I think it might actually be sustained.

In fact one could argue that is has already been sustained for more than 50 years, going back to, say, The Enlightenment.

At least in Western civilization. East Asia also tends toward irreligiosity, perhaps to an even greater degree.

 

[Manopolus]

I think a lot of young folks (18-22 or so demographic) have been more skeptical than they let on for quite some time. The thing is, there's pressure in religious families, particularly at that age, to keep pretending in order to not disappoint the folks. I've known quite a few people that will openly say they don't actually believe it around non-believers, but wouldn't dream of marking anything but "Christian" on anything official, including anonymous surveys. Some of them even go to church regularly.

...and then they get married, have kids, and all that stuff. I'm not sure why settling down tends to bring the religion back, but that seems to be part of the trend. I guess if one half of the marriage is still feelin' it, the other tends to go along for the ride, etc. It's largely a social thing that keeps religion going. One thing about living where I live -- there's only two social conventions around here -- churches and bars. There's literally nothing else. I suppose that's why a mostly non-drinking (lately, anyway), non-religious person like myself ends up never leaving the house.


...and then there's those that go to religious colleges. I'm not familiar at all with that demographic. Universities tend to be more godless than not from my experience.


I suspect that the main difference today is probably that it's slightly more socially acceptable to be a disbeliever than it was in the past. I doubt that people as a whole have gotten all that much more sensible. There was a time when whole communities didn't even realize that there were nonbelievers among them, because these people tended to be rather silent about it.

 

[Wolrab]

I was listening to a morning radio talk show hosted by an idiot who is also a Mormon. Him and all the callers I heard were coming up with all sorts of wacky theories as to why this happened. After work I will try to recall some. All theories were ridiculous.

 

[Explorer]

I think it might actually be sustained. All young persons I know of are on the net, far far more than we all were, they literally were born with it. So before they get "fed" in by religious story, they are on the net and get fed far far more various viewpoint. Have far more information accessible.

Once you get confronted earlier to so various viewpoint and religion, it becomes less justifiable or sustainable to pretend one is the true religion.

I don't think the younger generation is getting to be massively atheist.... But I do think a higher proportion will recognize specific religion either as not being a universal truth, or as a quaint things their parents did, something not very useful comapred to getting support from the net and social network rather than pray to an invisible god, without getting full blown "militant atheist" - iow not interrested into getting a board like JREF forum (oh wait it does not exist anymore anyway ).

What is a "full blown militant atheist"?

Would that be someone who demonstrates outside churches and mosques with a placard against a given religion?

 

[ponderingturtle]

I think a lot of young folks (18-22 or so demographic) have been more skeptical than they let on for quite some time. The thing is, there's pressure in religious families, particularly at that age, to keep pretending in order to not disappoint the folks. I've known quite a few people that will openly say they don't actually believe it around non-believers, but wouldn't dream of marking anything but "Christian" on anything official, including anonymous surveys. Some of them even go to church regularly.

...and then they get married, have kids, and all that stuff. I'm not sure why settling down tends to bring the religion back, but that seems to be part of the trend.

A church is a great social network so that it gets you to meet other young parents so that kids can do things together.

 

[MG1962]

What is a "full blown militant atheist"?

Would that be someone who demonstrates outside churches and mosques with a placard against a given religion?

Some one who likes to get aggressively in your face about religion every chance they get, even when it is the last thing the situation calls for.

 

[Craig4]

I'm a little excited about this but not a lot. While it's good to see people moving away from organized religion; I'm not sure this is translating to more people having a scientific view of the world. Organized religions might be declining but woo probably isn't.

 

[Explorer]

Some one who likes to get aggressively in your face about religion every chance they get, even when it is the last thing the situation calls for.

Ah now I get it. Someone like an evangelical Christian. Thanks for that.

 

[MG1962]

Ah now I get it. Someone like an evangelical Christian. Thanks for that.

Sadly that is a fair comparison, but on the other hand two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Aepervius]

Some one who likes to get aggressively in your face about religion every chance they get, even when it is the last thing the situation calls for.

Not really. I was thinking more of somebody which makes it a subject of conversation, instead of just not caring. It seems to me the crushing majority of the 22% just simply do not care and would not visit our forum for example. I was not thinking of atheist extremist proselythism, just.... Atheist who cares and discuss it ?

I have no real word for it really.

 

[Pulvinar]

Not really. I was thinking more of somebody which makes it a subject of conversation, instead of just not caring. It seems to me the crushing majority of the 22% just simply do not care and would not visit our forum for example. I was not thinking of atheist extremist proselythism, just.... Atheist who cares and discuss it ?

I have no real word for it really.

How about "proud atheist"? Much closer to actual practice than "militant".

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

...and then there's those that go to religious colleges. I'm not familiar at all with that demographic. Universities tend to be more godless than not from my experience.

I don't have links on hand right now, quick lunch, but from what I understood both atheism/agnosticism and religious participation was higher in universities than those who skipped college. Those who skipped generally considered themselves religious, but didn't attend church or really live in a way that could be considered particularly religious. Those who attended university made more decisive opinions on religion in both directions. Of course, literalist and exclusionary religious beliefs tended to be weeded out even as participation increased. The question of religious colleges in specific is somewhat muddled by the modern practice of actively recruiting a secular student body while still being an institution with a specific religious adherence. While the religious still heavily outweigh the non-religious, especially the more stringent such colleges without a secular recruitment strategy, I've known plenty of former Christians who lost faith at such institutions.

ETA:

Ah here is one of the links about increase religious participation in colleges.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13644-011-0007-4

ETA2:

Listening about this on NPR today, the speaker from the CFI said the Pew studied showed a general disassociation from institutions in general. Not just religion. A new rise of individualism. This is an interesting development. The growth rates in non-Christian religions while seemingly impressive result in a very small overall increase. Immigration and birth rates will continue to see greater share for Islamic, Hindu, other communities but chances are the usual factors will eventually kick in on those communities too. Judaism was staying stable, having gone through its great irreligious movement decades ago. It is interesting to think about some Christian sects going through a similar culturally identified but non-religious belief structure. The environment is not the same in general as it was for Judaism, but I could see certain Christian sects falling into the same situation. Mormons for instance.

 

[MG1962]

Not really. I was thinking more of somebody which makes it a subject of conversation, instead of just not caring. It seems to me the crushing majority of the 22% just simply do not care and would not visit our forum for example. I was not thinking of atheist extremist proselythism, just.... Atheist who cares and discuss it ?

I have no real word for it really.

I think the issue is who is forcing the conversation. In the real world the only militant atheist I have known on any level was a guy who would push such conversations at children's birthday parties for no other reason that he knew one of the mothers was a deeply religious person, who really did not care about the topic one way or the other.

And yes before you ask, I have the same disdain for people who use any excuse to start a conversation about their particular belief system.

 

[The Big Dog]

the Catholics just picked up all of Cuba, so they have that going for them, which is nice.

C. Spackler