To love your neighbour like yourself, meaning

[MG1962]

Consider actually reading this thread...

You clearly had not, as you are the one desperate to widen the discussion into debates about the OT. My only contribution to this thread was to point out the universal nature of the topic, I even posted a wiki page for those of you challenged in this area.

But please ignore me. I know I am keeping you from riding your hobby horse.

 

[Leumas]

Curious here, does SlowVehicle and Leumas hang out together or something? They seem to frequent the same threads.

What an odd remark to say about two people in a PUBLIC FORUM.

If you have noticed YOU TOO are in this thread and other threads where I and others are.... so you too must be hanging out with us.... which BY THE WAY is what a FORUM is.

I realize that you are new to this forum.

But are you new to all sorts of forums?

Forum

1. • The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
     
   • A public meeting place for open discussion.
     
   • A medium for open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper, a radio or television program, or a website.
2. A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.

 

[Craig B]

The OT god is the antechrist, the true God is the Jesus God

I have argued that God doesn't have a neighbour to love, in normal monotheism, but you seem to be a kind of Manichean with two gods, a good one and a bad one. The bad one created the earth, however, so that may make you a gnostic.

Anyway, if there are two gods, perhaps gods do have neighbours after all. Does the Good God love his Bad God neighbour? If not, will the Good God go to Hell?

If the Good God loves the Bad God, ought not you to love the Bad God too?

 

[HansMustermann]

Which gods? Most of the ones people invent are idiots, especially that Christian doofus. I don't think you'd want anyone acting like he does in those fictional stories.

What, you mean you wouldn't want someone acting like Thor Odinsson, defender of mankind?

Actual awesome stuff from the holy legends, awesomely summarized:

 

[Leumas]

The OT god is the antechrist, the true God is the Jesus God

I noticed that you conveniently ignored these verses

Mark 16:16

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.​

Luke 19:27

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.​

Matthew 25:31-41

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire , prepared for the devil and his angels:​

Matthew 13:49

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.​

Mathew 10:37

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.​

Matthew 15:24-26

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.​

And of course his followers being nothing but a bunch of accomplished liars and huckstering poltroons is a testament to Jesus being really no other than the Devil himself.

Paul dissimulates and hucksters and shysters for Jesus's sake

• 1 Corinthians 9:20-23 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings."

Eusebius, Emperor Constantine's bishop, legalizes deception for Jesus' sake

• How it may be lawful and fitting to use falsehood as a medicine, and for the benefit of those who want to be deceived.

And Martin Luther the founder of Protestantism sanctified lying for Jesus' sake

• What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church ... a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them.

Martin Luther also explained why reason is not something Jesus' followers should value

• Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but - more frequently than not - struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God

And Jesus fully agreed with him

• Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
• 1 Corinthians 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
• 1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
• 1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise;

Jesus was a VILE COWARD and HYPOCRITE.

Matthew 10:34-38

10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.​

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Matthew 10:24 The disciple is not above [his] master, nor the servant above his lord.

Here is a list of some of Jesus' heinous characteristics as can be inferred from reading the NT.

• Liar
• Coward
• Servile
• Despotic
• Racist
• Xenophobic
• Narcissistic
• Fatalistic
• Rude
• Arrogant
• Hateful
• Charlatan
• Egotistic
• Show-off
• Deluded
• Schizophrenic
• Psychopathic
• Feeble
• Useless
• Foolish

Can you explain these details about Jesus and his actions in the NT?

• What lesson would one learn from him cursing a Fig Tree for not having fruits OUT OF SEASON? That he is a moron? That he is a DESPOT? That people should give what they cannot give? That people are expected to do what they cannot do? How wise is that?
• Jesus being such a servile coward with the Roman Centurion.
• Being such a vile abuser and humiliator of the poor Phoenician woman.
• Being racist and calling gentiles Dogs
• Telling people not to worry about the future and not to work because they will be provided for by some imaginary sky daddy.
• Denying his family.
• Verbally abusing his mother.
• Verbally abusing his mother and father at the age of 12
• Going around performing magic tricks to bamboozle people into believing that he is god.
• Conspiring with his friend Lazarus to pretend to be dead so that he can pretend to raise him from the dead in order to huckster people.
• Making people believe in demonic possession and exorcisms
• Making people believe that infirmity and diseases and illness are due to sins
• Telling a man that he has to leave his dead father without a burial.
• Telling a man that he needs to give away all his possessions and go around begging
• Telling people that they do not need to wash their hands before eating
• Telling people that what they ingest does not harm them
• Telling people that they need to gouge out their eyes and cut off their hands.....even if that is metaphorical it means to shun and ostracize people.
• Telling people that they cannot divorce
• Telling people that looking at women is a sin
• Deceiving people that the end of the world is neigh
• Telling people that they should hate their family for his sake
• Telling people that familial strife is what he wants them to do....but not a bad idea I think
• Going around insulting the Jews
• Telling people that slaves are lower than the masters
• Telling people to bring people and kill them under his feet for not agreeing with him
• Telling people that prayer works
• Telling people that if they do not agree with him they are worthless and will be tortured for ever
• Telling people that they cannot build on sand when all they have over there is sand... ok this one is just a joke....but seriously...he did not know about raft foundations or piles?

 

[Leumas]

To Love your neighbour like yourself means to treat your neighbour like yourself, it is to have the same attitude towards your neighbour than your own person..

Jolly nice!

The problem is that Jesus never in fact honored this commandment which he thought was the second most important commandment when in fact it was not even mentioned in any of the two lists of the supposed ten commandments nor in the real list of ten commandments (see here for more details).

Jesus CLEARLY said he came to spread STRIFE between mothers and their own daughters let alone between neighbors... not very neighborly or loving.

Matthew 10:34-38

10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.​

Jesus CURSES entire cities (neighboring his) for not accepting his hucksterism... not very neighborly is it?

Matthew 11:20-25

11:20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
11:22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.​

Jesus demands the KILLING of people who would not accept his despotism over them... that is not very loving is it?

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Jesus says that Lords are above their slaves... shouldn't he have commanded them to treat each other as equals since they are neighbors after all?

Matthew 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

Jesus condemns people to ETERNAL TORTURE for not believing in him... not really loving or neighborly.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[megaresp]

To Love your neighbour like yourself means to treat your neighbour like yourself...

This rule doesn't apply to people living in London, does it?

I don't even know my neighbours, and that's the way they like it. If I tried to love them, I suspect they'd have me deported. And I don't want to go back to the Antipodes.

 

[Slowvehicle]

You clearly had not, as you are the one desperate to widen the discussion into debates about the OT. My only contribution to this thread was to point out the universal nature of the topic, I even posted a wiki page for those of you challenged in this area.

But please ignore me. I know I am keeping you from riding your hobby horse.

Oddly enough, had you, in fact read the thread, you might have seen the OP refer to "Jesus" and the "OT 'god' ".

But please free to ignore that fact.

 

[Tassman]

Curious here, does SlowVehicle and Leumas hang out together or something? They seem to frequent the same threads.

To love thy neighbor like one loves thyself is a slight misinterpretation. If I hate myself should I then hate my neighbor? If I am a damned sinner should I also suspect that my neighbor is damned to hell? No to all of the above. The truth is that you should "know" (not bang, people, get it outta the gutter) my neighbor like I "know" myself. I should share in his experience since we live in the same building/subdivision/town/city/state/province/country/world. Really this is half of "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer". You have to be constantly learning and the best way to do that is to learn from your neighbor/friend/enemy.

The hard part is the following: If your neighbor offends you in a most terrible way (his dog craps in your yard, or, he flies a plane into some buildings killing hundreds) what do you do? Kill him, lock him up, let it be, or talk to him and give him a chance to explain/repent (repent used loosely and is meant only to substitute asking for forgiveness).

Moreover we see time and again that killing for your beliefs (whether in "self defense" or not) is frowned upon. I hope that helps.

It's not even original. The Golden Rule, so called, appears in one form or another in virtually every major civilisation and long pre-dates Jesus. Such a plagiarist!

 

[devnull]

To Love your neighbour like yourself means to treat your neighbour like yourself, it is to have the same attitude towards your neighbour than your own person.

Which is impossible to achieve.

All sound in mind persons loves himself, for him, he doesn't do anything wrong, he won't condemn himself, won't punish himself, all is good in what he is does because he loves himself

This simply isnt true.

<snip!>

 

[HansMustermann]

Jokes aside, actually the OP illustrates what is wrong with such one-liners. Not only it doesn't deal with deviations or even edge conditions, but by the second paragraph, he already needs to postulate more constraints about what even the ideal case really means.

It's EASY to spout smart-sounding platitudes that work only on the ideal case (everyone does it, and everyone understands it exactly the right way, nobody abuses it as a one-way street for how YOU should treat THEM without getting the same in return, etc). It's HARD to make some actual rules that work in practice.

There's a reason the penal code is more text than one line, is all I'm saying.

 

[HansMustermann]

Heresy! This is Marcionism. In the good ol' days you'd have been burnt at the stake. Marcion believed Jesus was the saviour sent by God, and Paul was his chief apostle. But he rejected the OT god as a lower entity than the loving God of the NT.

I think Gaetan clarified it long ago that he's a gnostic, so I don't think you're telling him anything new. Or my memory could be failing me.

 

[Craig B]

I think Gaetan clarified it long ago that he's a gnostic, so I don't think you're telling him anything new. Or my memory could be failing me.

Oooh, joy! I got it right, and Hans says so!

I have argued that God doesn't have a neighbour to love, in normal monotheism, but you seem to be a kind of Manichean with two gods, a good one and a bad one. The bad one created the earth, however, so that may make you a gnostic ...

 

[Correa Neto]

Jokes aside, actually the OP illustrates what is wrong with such one-liners. ...snip...

Well, tweets... 140 characters, internet memes, you know...

Those were God's attempts to communicate with the Millenials and Generation Z (or whatever else you want to call them).

 

[catsmate]

The original post did not mention God or Christianity at all, and yet was immediately met with God and Christianity related mockery. Is this necessary? I think that "Love your neighbor as yourself" can be understood without a context of organized religion, and that the idea can have value. Or does the the non-sciency-ness set it up for ridicule?

Past experience. Gaetan sufferers from a bad case of xianity.

 

[Kirbztomp]

What an odd remark to say about two people in a PUBLIC FORUM.

If you have noticed YOU TOO are in this thread and other threads where I and others are.... so you too must be hanging out with us.... which BY THE WAY is what a FORUM is.

I realize that you are new to this forum.

But are you new to all sorts of forums?

Forum

1. • The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
     
   • A public meeting place for open discussion.
     
   • A medium for open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper, a radio or television program, or a website.
2. A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.

Obviously I meant "do you hang out IRL" and it was a curious question. A simple "no" would have sufficed. Obviously we all 3 care about the same things and the two of you know more details than my overarching knowledge. But please, don't kill my cat.

 

[Kirbztomp]

This rule doesn't apply to people living in London, does it?

I don't even know my neighbours, and that's the way they like it. If I tried to love them, I suspect they'd have me deported. And I don't want to go back to the Antipodes.

Sounds to me like you love your neighbors enough to suffice a peaceful community, which means you know them more than you let on (though not in great detail). Love, in the same manner as Ron White points out about homosexuality, comes in varying degrees but we all have it. Again, though, the hard part is to not condemned people to death and provide an opportunity for them to change.

 

[turingtest]

To Love your neighbour like yourself means to treat your neighbour like yourself, it is to have the same attitude towards your neighbour than your own person.

All sound in mind persons loves himself, for him, he doesn't do anything wrong, he won't condemn himself, won't punish himself, all is good in what he is does because he loves himself, even renagades love themself. To be just, you should adopt the same attitude towards others than you have towards your own person. To Love your neighbour like yourself is the fundamental basic of justice.

This is ridiculous. There's nothing about sanely loving yourself that requires you to ignore your own faults- same for the neighbors and theirs.

 

[Astreja]

To Love your neighbour like yourself means to treat your neighbour like yourself, it is to have the same attitude towards
your neighbour than your own person.

A nice idea, Gaetan, but if the neighbour's behaviour doesn't justify such treatment this might set up a state of cognitive dissonance. Submerging negative judgments and pretending that one loves someone despite their bad actions is extremely stressful and mentally damaging. Better to have a neutral opinion of them and avoid dealing with them at all.

 

[Leumas]

Obviously I meant "do you hang out IRL" and it was a curious question. A simple "no" would have sufficed.

Ok, I apologize for being overly curt... I have been in a bad mood recently after having realized how many Pretend International Skeptics we have on this Symposium due to recent discussions in this thread and this thread.

So, no worries, my bad!

Obviously we all 3 care about the same things

Yes, for sure! Keep up the good reasoning!

and the two of you know more details than my overarching knowledge.

Slowvehicle definitely.... me ... not so much... I am just good at reading things the way they are written without injecting my own wishful thinking for what I wished the words should have been so that in my mind I can justify interpreting them so as to enforce my delusions of what reality ought to be, like many Pretend International Skeptics on this Symposium love to do as you can see in this post.

But please, don't kill my cat.

Me, never, I love cats. But my current-wife's PRETEND German Shepherd might.

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