Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Grinder]

I don't recall this and wonder if any here know more:

What does interest me though are the two blood traces enhanced by Luminol in Sollecito's car, item #76 and 77. Door adjuster handle and rear passenger seat cushion.

 

[lonepinealex]

Well the likelihood of one of the options is 0 [ in the real world – in cartwheel world who knows, given the time travel/mindwipe stuff ] so the ECHR thing is slightly more likely.
However it is less likely than my winning the lottery [jackpot] this weekend. And that’s after my not buying a lottery ticket is factored in.


But why did this Cassation panel overturn the murder convictions of RS [and AK] ?
Perhaps they were filled with the same sense of Justice that inspired the baby killer Alessi to give evidence favourable to RS & AK.

That seems the most likely as things stand.

Interesting how some of the PGP have switched the focus of their ire to Raffaele, inline with their new conspiracy theory that corrects the cognitive dissonance of the ISC acquittal - the Sollecitos bought off the jury.

 

[Strozzi]

How Rudy's "testimony" shifted from 'Amanda was there' - to - 'I saw her out of the window from the room I didn't break into'. (By the way, if that's Rudy's story, was the window already broken when he saw Amanda outside?)

I would expect charges to flow from Rudy's transition, and in my dreamworld that would ensnare Mignini. Which is really where those charges belong. Mignini knowingly laid false charges against Amanda and Raf. That's what happened. That's the truth. And everyone involved owns a piece of that crime.

Good question, Carbonjam72. Perhaps we can take it one further. Were the shutters closed when Rudy looked out the window and saw a woman who from the back in the dark resembled Amanda? Unless he has X-ray vision, the shutters have to have been open for Rudy to see out Filomena's window.

Filomena testified that she closed the shutters when she left early that evening. Rudy says he and Meredith later were fooling around consensually in her room. Rudy uses the bathroom. While on the toilet, someone murders Meredith. Rudy comes out of the bathroom and struggles with an Italian male who flees after cutting the inside of Rudi's fingers - the ones Rudy would use if holding a knife if it were to slip in his hand. Rudy quickly looks out Filomena's window and sees a woman who looks from the back in the dark like Amanda. Rudy cleans up and leaves. The next morning the real Amanda goes to the house, then returns with Raffaele where they discover the window broken. Shutters are pulled fairly closed. So who opened the shutters around the time of the attack to allow Rudy to see the Amanda-like woman outside? And afterwards, who closed them so that they were closed when Amanda and Raffaele found the broken window the next morning?

 

[Grinder]

Filomena testified that she closed the shutters when she left early that evening. Rudy says he and Meredith later were fooling around consensually in her room. Rudy uses the bathroom. While on the toilet, someone murders Meredith. Rudy comes out of the bathroom and struggles with an Italian male who flees after cutting the inside of Rudi's fingers - the ones Rudy would use if holding a knife if it were to slip in his hand. Rudy quickly looks out Filomena's window and sees a woman who looks from the back in the dark like Amanda. Rudy cleans up and leaves. The next morning the real Amanda goes to the house, then returns with Raffaele where they discover the window broken. Shutters are pulled fairly closed. So who opened the shutters around the time of the attack to allow Rudy to see the Amanda-like woman outside? And afterwards, who closed them so that they were closed when Amanda and Raffaele found the broken window the next morning?

He told the court that he had seen Kercher on Halloween, the night before her death, and that they met again on Nov. 1 and they went to her house together.

While he was getting something to drink, Kercher went into her room and Guede said she began railing against Knox because money was missing from her drawer. "My money, my money," she kept saying, Guede testified.

Together they checked the other rooms and everything was in order, but Kercher kept complaining. "She said that Amanda brought boys back to the house and that she couldn't stand her anymore," he said.

Guede said he and Kercher started making out and petting, but stopped. Ten minutes later Guede says he went to the bathroom, and while there the doorbell rang and he heard Kercher arguing with Knox.

"We have to talk," Kercher told Knox, according to Guede. He figured it was an argument among roomates, so he turned up his iPod until he heard "a very loud scream."

Guede claimed that he ran to Kercher's room where he saw a male figure. He put his hand on the guy's shoulder saying "What's happening," caught a glimpse of Kercher on the floor, and then the unidentified man "tried to strike me. He backed down the hallway in the dark, fell, and heard the man say 'Let's go, there is black man in the house.'"

Guede said he then heard the steps of more than one person on the gravel outside. He went to the window in one of the rooms and saw "the silhouette of Amanda Knox leaving."

Since this was a spontaneous statement, no one could question Guede.​

He didn't say he looked out F's window but who cares unless one wants to accept all of it. A big problem for the story is the doorbell ringing. Why would Amanda ring it? He had to say that because that was part of his original story.

If it had to F's window then I guess the PGP claims that he was never in the room has little credibility.

Also he said the window wasn't broken when he left the place before the above statement in court. Maybe the Skype but not sure.

 

[RoseMontague]

He told the court that he had seen Kercher on Halloween, the night before her death, and that they met again on Nov. 1 and they went to her house together.

While he was getting something to drink, Kercher went into her room and Guede said she began railing against Knox because money was missing from her drawer. "My money, my money," she kept saying, Guede testified.

Together they checked the other rooms and everything was in order, but Kercher kept complaining. "She said that Amanda brought boys back to the house and that she couldn't stand her anymore," he said.

Guede said he and Kercher started making out and petting, but stopped. Ten minutes later Guede says he went to the bathroom, and while there the doorbell rang and he heard Kercher arguing with Knox.

"We have to talk," Kercher told Knox, according to Guede. He figured it was an argument among roomates, so he turned up his iPod until he heard "a very loud scream."

Guede claimed that he ran to Kercher's room where he saw a male figure. He put his hand on the guy's shoulder saying "What's happening," caught a glimpse of Kercher on the floor, and then the unidentified man "tried to strike me. He backed down the hallway in the dark, fell, and heard the man say 'Let's go, there is black man in the house.'"

Guede said he then heard the steps of more than one person on the gravel outside. He went to the window in one of the rooms and saw "the silhouette of Amanda Knox leaving."

Since this was a spontaneous statement, no one could question Guede.​

He didn't say he looked out F's window but who cares unless one wants to accept all of it. A big problem for the story is the doorbell ringing. Why would Amanda ring it? He had to say that because that was part of his original story.

If it had to F's window then I guess the PGP claims that he was never in the room has little credibility.

Also he said the window wasn't broken when he left the place before the above statement in court. Maybe the Skype but not sure.

It's quoted in Rudy's SC ruling that it was F's window. He gave that info during one of his later interrogations.

 

[Grinder]

It's quoted in Rudy's SC ruling that it was F's window. He gave that info during one of his later interrogations.

Interesting since my quote was his statement at his appeal. Of course it wouldn't be the only mistake the ISC made in this case.

ETA - but then he heard
sounds from the floor below, panicked, and rushed out of the house, leaving the door open
and Kercher on the floor, dressed, the shutters open and Romanelli's windowpane not
smashed.

The novelty of the third interrogation was the statement that from Romanelli's window, he
briefly saw a female figure with loose hair which seemed to be that of Amanda Knox. Then
he repeated what he had already stated: that Meredith's room was in order, that the girl was
on the floor, dressed, that he tried to staunch the blood with two towels and then fled,
terrified.

Are his interrogations public? I wonder why he wasn't more specific in his spontaneous court statement and it seems he would have to be in the room in order to see someone outside but I haven't checked the floor plan yet.

On some floor plan drawings he would need to enter the room and some not.

 

[Grinder]

Rose thanks for the correction. I'm now have access to the SC Rudi report.

BTW - they spell his name Rudi

 

[Samson]

It's quoted in Rudy's SC ruling that it was F's window. He gave that info during one of his later interrogations.

This starts to sound conclusive. The case for the staged break in relies on Filomena's shutters being closed at all times Rudy was in the house unless I am missing something. Rudy therefore looked through the window before the "break in was staged".

 

[Strozzi]

It's quoted in Rudy's SC ruling that it was F's window. He gave that info during one of his later interrogations.

OK. So Rudi rushes to Filomena's window and looks out to observe a woman running off who resembles Amanda. Rudi I.D.'d her as resembling Amanda in the dark by the fact that her hair is flowing. (Can't be many other women in Perugia with flowing hair, right? I guess most Italian women in late 2007 wore their hair in pigtails or braids. )

Filomena testified she closed her shutters a few hours earlier. When Rudi looked out Filomena's window the shutters had to have been open - otherwise he would have just seen green horizontal slats.

There is an easy explanation for why the shutters were open. I just can't think what it is.

But I'll try. Perhaps as they fled the house one of the attackers detoured into Filomena's room to open the closed shutters so that if Rudi were by chance to look out the window a few moments later he would be able to see the female attacker with flowing hair flee through the yard.

 

[Grinder]

This starts to sound conclusive. The case for the staged break in relies on Filomena's shutters being closed at all times Rudy was in the house unless I am missing something. Rudy therefore looked through the window before the "break in was staged".

I never believed the shutters were closed as she raced out being late for the party even needing Raf to wrap the present.

OK. So Rudi rushes to Filomena's window and looks out to observe a woman running off who resembles Amanda. Rudi I.D.'d her as resembling Amanda in the dark by the fact that her hair is flowing. (Can't be many other women in Perugia with flowing hair, right? I guess most Italian women in late 2007 wore their hair in pigtails or braids. )

Filomena testified she closed her shutters a few hours earlier. When Rudi looked out Filomena's window the shutters had to have been open - otherwise he would have just seen green horizontal slats.

There is an easy explanation for why the shutters were open. I just can't think what it is.

But I'll try. Perhaps as they fled the house one of the attackers detoured into Filomena's room to open the closed shutters so that if Rudi were by chance to look out the window a few moments later he would be able to see the female attacker with flowing hair flee through the yard.

The shutters being open don't take away the possibility of staging but do take away Massei's "it would take too many trips" argument.

If Rudi had to be in F's room to see out in a way to see someone walking up the drive then it does eliminate the argument that had he broken in his DNA or some trace had to be there. Sorry Kermit and Locard.

 

[RoseMontague]

I never believed the shutters were closed as she raced out being late for the party even needing Raf to wrap the present.



The shutters being open don't take away the possibility of staging but do take away Massei's "it would take too many trips" argument.

If Rudi had to be in F's room to see out in a way to see someone walking up the drive then it does eliminate the argument that had he broken in his DNA or some trace had to be there. Sorry Kermit and Locard.

Good point..
From RG's SC Motivation

The novelty of the third interrogation was the statement that from Romanelli's window, he briefly saw a female figure with loose hair which seemed to be that of Amanda Knox. Then he repeated what he had already stated: that Meredith's room was in order, that the girl was on the floor, dressed, that he tried to staunch the blood with two towels and then fled, terrified.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/2011-02-24_Eng.pdf

So terrified he immediately went out dancing.

 

[RoseMontague]

I don't think it is possible to see the walkway from Meredith's window in any case. Isn't her window on the back of the cottage?

 

[anglolawyer]

I don't think it is possible to see the walkway from Meredith's window in any case. Isn't her window on the back of the cottage?

Yes.

 

[carbonjam72]

Yes.

Would be interesting to identify every factual contradiction in Rudy's many versions. Since spotting a lie is usually pretty easy, it should make for an interesting list.

I thought insightful Maori's suggestion that Rudy getting the towels was more likely that he used them to smother Meredith, than to staunch her bleeding.

 

[Strozzi]

I never believed the shutters were closed as she raced out being late for the party even needing Raf to wrap the present.
. . .

Grinder, if Filomena in her hurry did not adjust the shutters at all then that suggests Filomena was mistaken about (or lied) to Mignini about having pulled her shutters almost closed. In his questioning of Filomena, Mignini walked her a step further by getting her to modify her original statement and subsequently agree that she closed the shutters all the way. (Mignini is good at shaping witness statements)

It would seem a natural thing for the police as they closely examine the shutters to open and close them to see how they swing, how they align, and how the latch(es) close. Does anyone know if the police actually did this? Were they able to get the shutters to close all the way (in spite of swollen wood)?

If the shutters would not close shut, then Filomena and/or Mignini created false testimony that they did shut which judges relied on to conclude that the break-in was staged.

 

[Grinder]

I don't think it is possible to see the walkway from Meredith's window in any case. Isn't her window on the back of the cottage?

But doesn't it say he saw it from F's window? Meredith's window near the deck and high because AK tried to look in IIRC. But for me the big big deal is that Rudi established that the shutters inside and out were open.

Early on there was confusion about whose window was broken.

 

[Antony]

Would be interesting to identify every factual contradiction in Rudy's many versions. Since spotting a lie is usually pretty easy, it should make for an interesting list.

I thought insightful Maori's suggestion that Rudy getting the towels was more likely that he used them to smother Meredith, than to staunch her bleeding.

I saw it suggested that he used the towels to clean up in the bathroom, and then locked them in the murder room to avoid leaving obvious traces in the most accessible area, and so delay discovery. He could also have left them saturated with blood to swamp his own recognisable traces on them.

 

[Grinder]

Grinder, if Filomena in her hurry did not adjust the shutters at all then that suggests Filomena was mistaken about (or lied) to Mignini about having pulled her shutters almost closed. In his questioning of Filomena, Mignini walked her a step further by getting her to modify her original statement and subsequently agree that she closed the shutters all the way. (Mignini is good at shaping witness statements)

It would seem a natural thing for the police as they closely examine the shutters to open and close them to see how they swing, how they align, and how the latch(es) close. Does anyone know if the police actually did this? Were they able to get the shutters to close all the way (in spite of swollen wood)?

If the shutters would not close shut, then Filomena and/or Mignini created false testimony that they did shut which judges relied on to conclude that the break-in was staged.

As I remember it she never said the outer shutters were locked because they couldn't be, but that she became more certain she had closed them as Mignini questioned her. Where are the tapes and transcripts?

No idea if the PLE tested them though of course they should have. But then they should had a 5' 10" athlete climb up to show how easy it was.

 

[MichaelB]

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/rudy-guedes-break-in/

Question: So on 3rd December [2007] you said to the police on page 24 to have closed the windows, to have drawn the shutters without latching them, to have closed only the right blind [internal shutter] and not the left one because (unheard) – do you remember this?
Answer: In all honesty, seeing as I said that in the immediacy of the crime I can confirm because it was fresh in my mind.

 

[MichaelB]

As I remember it she never said the outer shutters were locked because they couldn't be, but that she became more certain she had closed them as Mignini questioned her. Where are the tapes and transcripts?
No idea if the PLE tested them though of course they should have. But then they should had a 5' 10" athlete climb up to show how easy it was.

While you were away there was a rather large document dump on the guilter wiki. We now have most of the previously missing transcripts that Amanda didn't post on her site, as well as transcripts of their phone calls November 2-5, their prison conversations, new expert reports that haven't been seen before, some witness statements, arrest warrants, search warrants, attorney correspondence etc. Here's the links if you're interested:

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/amanda-knox-case-transcripts/

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/amanda-knox-transcripts/

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/statements-phone-taps-prison-intercepts/