Can one disprove Jesus' resurrection?

[Leumas]

I said stuff that I wrote, like the Historicity of the Bible. I didn't say I was a Christian, did I. I'm a skeptic.

Yes you did say you are a Christian.... have a look below.... there is nothing about you being a skeptic....but there is something about you being a Christian.

Hi everyone, I'm David, an atheist for most of my life until at the age of 27 I finally decided to pick up a Bible in order to debunk Christianity for myself. Instead, I became a believer and have been one now for 21 years.
Though I have never and will never belong to any organized religion my beliefs are very similar, though not in total agreement, to the Jehovah's Witnesses. I loath organized religion probably more than the typical skeptic because religion is inherently false, even to itself.

Though not as knowledgeable in religion as the average atheist I have a working knowledge of all the major world religions. I don't tend to dwell over the nonsensical or overly complicated doctrinal technicalities since my focus is primarily the Bible without the theological terminology.

I'm a excellent student of the Bible. I also have an interest in the spiritual, considering it to be a major part of all of our lives, of the human experience and to this effect I have my own website, Pathway Machine, which you can access through my profile contact info.
I hope that we can have some interesting and challenging discussions and debate.

Thanks,

DLH

 

[Butter!]

Yes you did say you are a Christian.... have a look below.... there is nothing about you being a skeptic....but there is something about you being a Christian.

Busted!

 

[Slowvehicle]

Did I not say in a later thread? I better make that before this one is completely buggered. You can bring up the deluge there, and regarding the alleged contradictory creation accounts, the answer, [ahem, plug] taken from my website's Skeptic's FAQ of Genesis 1:1, states:

Question: Is there a contradiction between the creation accounts of Genesis chapters 1 and 2?

Answer: No. The first account is given in chronological order and the second in topical order with the perspective of Adam and Eve. They were created in the garden so then the garden is introduced; Adam was to name the animals so then the animals are introduced, etc. If some one gives a chronological account of their going to the store to buy bread it isn't a contradiction to give another account of the event having them getting bread at the store. They are only two different orders of the same account.

You, in fact, asked for a "single contradiction". You have avoided, sidestepped, and talked around a host of them.

As far as your facile "interpretation"; the first mythic account is not just in a different order, but explains a different method of "creation".

To borrow, and pedantically expand upon, your own imagery, an account of "going to the store to buy a loaf of sliced bread, in a bag" does, in fact, contradict an account of "going to the store and buying a bag, going home, naming all of your sandwich supplies, then realizing that the empty bag had no "help-'meat' " for your sandwiches, and so going backto the store to buy bread to put in your bag" do not contradict each other. Your claimed "harmonization" of the two "creation" myths (collected from multiple sources into two different accounts) is not supported by the texts.

Now: about ƴ^e fludde...?

 

[Slowvehicle]

Have another...

In Exodus 9:3-6 god kills all the oxen and the asses and the camels and..well you get the picture.

In Exodus 9:19 he kills them all again despite them already being dead.

Not content with that, in Exodus 12:29 he kills them again because they just weren't dead enough.

...makes one wonder what (or whom) pulled the chariots into the "sea" to be destroyed...

Maybe they were tapirs.

 

[Slowvehicle]

God of the gaffes.

...his "son" is supposed to be a fisherman...

Maybe the gaffs were a birthday present.

 

[Slowvehicle]

I said we could discuss the flood later, what do you want from me? This?

You, in fact, made so bold as to ask for a "single contradiction", as if none could be found.

Answering questions is what I do.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Yes you did say you are a Christian.... have a look below.... there is nothing about you being a skeptic....but there is something about you being a Christian.

D'OH!

Lying for Jeebas?

 

[MikeG]

D'OH!

Lying for Jeebas?

It's a fairly common lie amongst life-long christians in my experience: pretend to have been an atheist who read the bible and then realised it had actually been right all along.

 

[abaddon]

...makes one wonder what (or whom) pulled the chariots into the "sea" to be destroyed...

Maybe they were tapirs.

Taun-tauns.

Not to mention we later find out god is afraid of iron chariots.

 

[rakovsky]

We can't disprove magic pixies or vampires either.



If we're talking about miraculous claims, then it[the Mormon claim about Indians being from the Lost Tribes] hasn't been completely disproved because it would still be possible that God changed their DNA to make it appear that they weren't descended from ancient Israelites.

Thanks for your response, Brian. That's a good point, however, the Indians would have to also miraculously reproduce themselves to the tune of 100 million AmerIndians, if I remember correctly, quite a feat for a tiny Middle Eastern nation.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Well, that's a vague and unsubstantiated claim, but in a quick response, so as not to completely deviate from the topic, here is an article I wrote on any difficulties as perceived by the skeptical regarding the genealogy of Mark and Matthew etc. Pathway Machine | Bible Topics: Jesus' Genealogy

Is that your site?

There is a problem with the apologetics presented as reconciliation for the differing genealogies. First of all, both clearly identify different people as the father of Joseph.

Matthew 1:15-16 and Eliud the father of Eleazar, and Eleazar the father of Matthan, and Matthan the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called the Messiah.

Luke 3:23 Jesus was about thirty years old when he began his work. He was the son (as was thought) of Joseph son of Heli,

The author of Matthew identifies Joseph as the son of Jacob, and the author of Mark identifies Joseph as the son of Heli. Even your claim that Matthew 1:16 says that "Jacob became father to Joseph the husband of Mary" is not supported by the link to the ESV translation.

 

[Foster Zygote]

In a later thread.

Meanwhile on the Skeptic's Forum, the verbose pedantic will speak in tongues! Uh . . . In regione caecorum rex est luscus! Er, Nostalgie de la boue! Deus Ex Machina . . .

Wenn ist das Nunstück git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!

 

[Manopolus]

It's a fairly common lie amongst life-long christians in my experience: pretend to have been an atheist who read the bible and then realised it had actually been right all along.

Actually, the opposite more often happens. I don't know how many people I've heard say that they were Christians until actually reading The Bible for themselves.

 

[Butter!]

Lol. If you have to lie about your own beliefs to advance your agenda, and go in misrepresenting yourself from the word go, maybe your agenda is a bunch of curdling BS.

 

[Leumas]

Provide one contradiction.

There are hundreds of such contradictions just in the NT alone.... but for a start have a look at the 4 accounts of the arrest of Jesus below... Notice how contradictory they are:

						Matthew   Mark     Luke      John
						------------------------------------------------------
Did Judas Kiss Jesus as a signal                 Yes      Yes       No         No
Did the arresting crowd bow down to Jesus        No       No        No         Yes
Was Jesus asked for a permission to attack       No       No        Yes        No
Was it Peter who cut the servant’s ear           No       No        No         Yes
Was the servant’s name Malchus                   No       No        No         Yes
Did Jesus heal the servants ear                  No       No        Yes        No
Was Jesus with an almost naked young man         No       Yes       No         No
Where did all this occur                     Gethsemane Gethsemane  Mount Of  Unknown
                                                                    Of Olives

Here are the verses...see for your self

Matthew 26
47 While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48 Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: “The one I kiss is the man; arrest him.” 49 Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, “Greetings, Rabbi!” and kissed him.
50 Jesus replied, “Do what you came for, friend.”[d]
Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51 With that, one of Jesus’ companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.
52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”
55 In that hour Jesus said to the crowd, “Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. 56 But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.


Mark 14
43 Just as he was speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, appeared. With him was a crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests, the teachers of the law, and the elders.
44 Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: “The one I kiss is the man; arrest him and lead him away under guard.” 45 Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, “Rabbi!” and kissed him. 46 The men seized Jesus and arrested him. 47 Then one of those standing near drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.
48 “Am I leading a rebellion,” said Jesus, “that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? 49 Every day I was with you, teaching in the temple courts, and you did not arrest me. But the Scriptures must be fulfilled.” 50 Then everyone deserted him and fled.
51 A young man, wearing nothing but a linen garment, was following Jesus. When they seized him, 52 he fled naked, leaving his garment behind.

Luke 22
47 While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him, 48 but Jesus asked him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?” 49 When Jesus’ followers saw what was going to happen, they said, “Lord, should we strike with our swords?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear.
51 But Jesus answered, “No more of this!” And he touched the man’s ear and healed him.
52 Then Jesus said to the chief priests, the officers of the temple guard, and the elders, who had come for him, “Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come with swords and clubs? 53 Every day I was with you in the temple courts, and you did not lay a hand on me. But this is your hour—when darkness reigns.”

John 18
1 When he had finished praying, Jesus left with his disciples and crossed the Kidron Valley. On the other side there was a garden, and he and his disciples went into it.
2 Now Judas, who betrayed him, knew the place, because Jesus had often met there with his disciples. 3 So Judas came to the garden, guiding a detachment of soldiers and some officials from the chief priests and the Pharisees. They were carrying torches, lanterns and weapons.
4 Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, “Who is it you want?”
5 “Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied.
“I am he,” Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.) 6 When Jesus said, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.7 Again he asked them, “Who is it you want?”
“Jesus of Nazareth,” they said.
8 Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he. If you are looking for me, then let these men go.” 9 This happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled: “I have not lost one of those you gave me.”[a]
10 Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priest’s servant, cutting off his right ear. (The servant’s name was Malchus.) 11 Jesus commanded Peter, “Put your sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?”
12 Then the detachment of soldiers with its commander and the Jewish officials arrested Jesus. They bound him 13 and brought him first to Annas, who was the father-in-law of Caiaphas, the high priest that year. 14 Caiaphas was the one who had advised the Jewish leaders that it would be good if one man died for the people.

 

[MikeG]

Actually, the opposite more often happens. I don't know how many people I've heard say that they were Christians until actually reading The Bible for themselves.

It is the pretense that I was highlighting, rather than the act of reading the babble.

 

[Foster Zygote]

This apologetic site is amusing. It makes the claim that the Bible is actually correct about insects having four legs because grasshoppers walk on four legs and jump with the other two. This is pure nonsense. They use all six legs when walking. Also amusing is the fact, missed, it would seem, by the author, that the Bible also describes every other "winged swarming creature" as having four legs as well.

 

[MikeG]

This apologetic site is amusing. It makes the claim that the Bible is actually correct about insects having four legs because grasshoppers walk on four legs and jump with the other two. This is pure nonsense. They use all six legs when walking. Also amusing is the fact, missed it would seem by the author, that the Bible also describes every other "winged swarming creature" as having four legs as well.

What about the whole "bats are birds" thing? Is that apologised for?

 

[Foster Zygote]

Lol. If you have to lie about your own beliefs to advance your agenda, and go in misrepresenting yourself from the word go, maybe your agenda is a bunch of curdling BS.

Perhaps the first question should have been, "do you want the five minute argument, or the full half hour?".

 

[Foster Zygote]

What about the whole "bats are birds" thing? Is that apologised for?

Yep.