Explosion at the Boston Marathon.

What an interesting question!

It's been argued that the government should do everything it can to bring back captured servicemembers. If the opportunity arose, why not issue a presidential pardon to Tsarnaev, in exchange for the freedom of someone like Bowe Bergdahl (for example)?

Because that's a strawman.
 
Many defense lawyers make clear to their clients -- I don't know if this is true in the Tsarnaev case -- that they will not agree to ask for or accept the death penalty. That it would be essentially assisting in the client's execution and that is not what a defense lawyer is supposed to do.

As far as Dzhokhar Tsarnaev wanting to be executed, I don't think that is clear. He may not want to be put to death or he may be ambivalent. I don't think anyone knows his feelings other than his family and his lawyers.
 
What an interesting question!

It's been argued that the government should do everything it can to bring back captured servicemembers. If the opportunity arose, why not issue a presidential pardon to Tsarnaev, in exchange for the freedom of someone like Bowe Bergdahl (for example)?

Who has argued this? Surely, no one who has taken two or three seconds to think about the implications.
 
Many defense lawyers make clear to their clients -- I don't know if this is true in the Tsarnaev case -- that they will not agree to ask for or accept the death penalty. That it would be essentially assisting in the client's execution and that is not what a defense lawyer is supposed to do.

I can understand a lawyer refusing to ask for or accept the death penalty, because doing so conflicts with his strongly held values, but I'm not sure I understand why a defense lawyer is not "supposed" to do this, as a matter of professional duty.

The role of a lawyer is to represent his client's interests, not to overrule them, isn't it? Unless there's good reason to conclude that I am not in my right mind, surely his job is largely to do what I want, no? (These are real questions -- I don't know the professional ethical standards of defense attorneys.)

As well, I have vague memories of previous cases where the accused aimed for the death penalty. Do you think that he was unrepresented? (Could be, my memory is very vague.)

As far as Dzhokhar Tsarnaev wanting to be executed, I don't think that is clear. He may not want to be put to death or he may be ambivalent. I don't think anyone knows his feelings other than his family and his lawyers.

Agreed.
 
On all counts? You think there'd be at least a modicum of doubt for one or two out of the thirty. This is not going to look good on his attorney's resume.

Maybe not so bad. They entered a guilty plea from the outset presumably in order to have a fair chance of avoiding the death penalty. If that strategy fails then that will be a blot on the copybook.

Incidentally, the lawyer, Judy Clarke takes these cases because of her opposition to the death penalty. She was the Unabomber's Lawyer and he is alive and well, albeit in supermax.
 
The role of a lawyer is to represent his client's interests, not to overrule them, isn't it? Unless there's good reason to conclude that I am not in my right mind, surely his job is largely to do what I want, no? (These are real questions -- I don't know the professional ethical standards of defense attorneys.)

Interests in this case are distinct from wants or desires.

My son may want ice cream for dinner every night, but it is in his best interest to eat a healthy meal, and my job as a parent to provide that regarless of what he wants.

I'm not sure of defense attourney's legal duties in particular, but I wouldn't be surprised if death is considered against the best interest of the client regardless of what the client wants.
 
This, so much. Very well said. If this issue should be considered at all, it certainly should not be the jury doing the considering. If anything, it should have been done by the government before deciding whether or not to pursue the death penalty against him. And it probably was. So that part is done and should play no role in the jury's deliberations.

Strongly disagree. The criminal justice system should (speaking in general here), consider the following when sentencing:

- Rehabilitation
- Protecting society
- Deterrence

It would be perverse to not consider whether a certain sentence would actually encourage more of the undesirable behaviour.
 
Interests in this case are distinct from wants or desires.

My son may want ice cream for dinner every night, but it is in his best interest to eat a healthy meal, and my job as a parent to provide that regarless of what he wants.

I'm not sure of defense attourney's legal duties in particular, but I wouldn't be surprised if death is considered against the best interest of the client regardless of what the client wants.

There may be a sense in which one's interests are distinct from what one wants, but I'd be pretty loathe to concede that an attorney knows better my interests than I do, abstruse matters of law and procedure aside.

Both the defendant and the attorney have roughly the same information about what death is. This isn't a matter that the defendant knows less about than the attorney.
 
Strongly disagree. The criminal justice system should (speaking in general here), consider the following when sentencing:

- Rehabilitation
- Protecting society
- Deterrence

It would be perverse to not consider whether a certain sentence would actually encourage more of the undesirable behaviour.

Is the jury ever instructed on the deterrent effect of sentences? Are juries told about whether jail time deters recidivism or similar crimes in cases of drunk driving, armed robbery, etc.? If not, then surely we can't expect the jury to make an informed decision on issues of deterrence.

Note as well that this is an odd issue to call "deterrence". Return to my motorcycle gang hypothetical: the gang says that unless the sentence is lenient, they will commit further crimes in retaliation. Do you really want to claim that giving in to the gang's threat is properly called "deterrence"?

This is more or less precisely what's at issue here. Some people say (not sure I agree) that if Tsarnaev is sentenced to death, others will retaliate.
 
Note as well that this is an odd issue to call "deterrence". Return to my motorcycle gang hypothetical: the gang says that unless the sentence is lenient, they will commit further crimes in retaliation. Do you really want to claim that giving in to the gang's threat is properly called "deterrence"?

Completely wrong way round.

Your motorcycle gang is asking for a more lenient sentence.

For the Boston Bomber and his fellow travellers, a life in SuperMax may sound more severe than a death sentence. (As they view death = trip to heaven).
 
Completely wrong way round.

Your motorcycle gang is asking for a more lenient sentence.

For the Boston Bomber and his fellow travellers, a life in SuperMax may sound more severe than a death sentence. (As they view death = trip to heaven).

Again, I ask you: is the jury in any position to make an informed decision on the likelihood of future terrorism, depending on the sentence they impose?

And, also, I don't get your reasoning. Life sentence is worse for Tsarnaev and will be viewed as worse by other extremists, but a death sentence will spark such outrage that more extremists will attack the U.S.? It seems to me that there is an inconsistency in this argument.

But it really doesn't matter. If we both agree that a jury cannot make an informed decision on future terrorist activities, then they shouldn't take this threat into account at all. Focus on the information they have been given, and not any issues which are obviously outside of their acquaintance.

ETA: The above inconsistency reminds me of some arguments against the death penalty in this case. I've seen the same person argue both that the death penalty is too barbaric to administer, and besides, life w/o parole is worse anyway and would give him what he deserves.

That said, I'm not claiming that death is the "right" sentence for Tsarnaev. I don't have an opinion on what sentence he should receive.
 
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Strongly disagree. The criminal justice system should (speaking in general here), consider the following when sentencing:

- Rehabilitation
- Protecting society
- Deterrence

It would be perverse to not consider whether a certain sentence would actually encourage more of the undesirable behaviour.

This,

The problem I have with a number of "Progressives" is that they reject Deterrence completly as a goal of criminal justice.Which IMHO Is stupid,given what human nature is.
 
Personally I consider justice as the goal of criminal justice. That's admittedly a subjective thing, deriving most of its weight from the values a given society holds in common, and even then varying greatly from one individual to another. Personally, I think the principle of "take something, give something" is a good place to start. It's a principle of moral parity.

Things like protecting society and deterrence should also be considered, as well as things like mercy and forgiveness.

On the question of making rehabilitation a goal, I'm swayed by C. S. Lewis's argument against:

According to the Humanitarian theory, to punish a man because he deserves it, and as much as he deserves, is mere revenge, and, therefore, barbarous and immoral. It is maintained that the only legitimate motives for punishing are the desire to deter others by example or to mend the criminal. When this theory is combined, as frequently happens, with the belief that all crime is more or less pathological, the idea of mending tails off into that of healing or curing and punishment becomes therapeutic. Thus it appears at first sight that we have passed from the harsh and self-righteous notion of giving the wicked their deserts to the charitable and enlightened one of tending the psychologically sick. What could be more amiable? One little point which is taken for granted in this theory needs, however, to be made explicit. The things done to the criminal, even if they are called cures, will be just as compulsory as they were in the old days when we called them punishments. If a tendency to steal can be cured by psychotherapy, the thief will no doubt be forced to undergo the treatment. Otherwise, society cannot continue.

My contention is that this doctrine, merciful though it appears, really means that each one of us, from the moment he breaks the law, is deprived of the rights of a human being.

The reason is this. The Humanitarian theory removes from Punishment the concept of Desert. But the concept of Desert is the only connecting link between punishment and justice. It is only as deserved or undeserved that a sentence can be just or unjust. I do not here contend that the question ‘Is it deserved?’ is the only one we can reasonably ask about a punishment. We may very properly ask whether it is likely to deter others and to reform the criminal. But neither of these two last questions is a question about justice. There is no sense in talking about a ‘just deterrent’ or a ‘just cure’. We demand of a deterrent not whether it is just but whether it will deter. We demand of a cure not whether it is just but whether it succeeds. Thus when we cease to consider what the criminal deserves and consider only what will cure him or deter others, we have tacitly removed him from the sphere of justice altogether; instead of a person, a subject of rights, we now have a mere object, a patient, a ‘case’.

[...]

It is, indeed, important to notice that my argument so far supposes no evil intentions on the part of the Humanitarian and considers only what is involved in the logic of his position. My contention is that good men (not bad men) consistently acting upon that position would act as cruelly and unjustly as the greatest tyrants. They might in some respects act even worse. Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.​

http://www.angelfire.com/pro/lewiscs/humanitarian.html
 
I am not certain what prosecutions and sentencing is for. Certainly, rehabilitation is a good thing to aim for, and I think that deterrence is not irrelevant. I know that whether or not punishment is a proper role for the state is controversial, especially since it is hard to see the difference between punishment and vengeance, though I have some tendency to believe it is appropriate (and so do all the people here who gleefully exclaim that life without parole will be brutal for Tsarnaev).

So, I think that there are many interests served by prosecutions and sentencing.

But I'm not in favor of choosing sentences in order to avoid retaliation, and I'm adamantly opposed to thinking that a jury which has received no instruction on the terrorism threat posed by this sentence or that should take any perceived threats into account. All that will happen is a decision made in ignorance and likely reflecting prejudices.

ETA: Let me clarify. Deterrence is a reasonable aim of the sentences we assign, but that doesn't mean that it should be taken into account by the jury, unless they are given the information required to make a reasonable assessment of the deterrent effects of various sentences. Deterrence should play a role in sentencing guidelines, or in the sentence the prosecution recommends, but not in the deliberations of an uninformed jury.
 
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This,

The problem I have with a number of "Progressives" is that they reject Deterrence completly as a goal of criminal justice.Which IMHO Is stupid,given what human nature is.
And once again you make a claim that 'progressives' or 'the left' or somesuch do something that I've never or rarely known them to do. Perhaps you shouldn't actually have a problem with 'progressives', since they don't generally act in any of the ways that you think they do.
 
The thought I had was, this case was tried by federal prosecutors. If the U.S. Government had felt executing Tsarnaev would carry a high probability of triggering 'pay back' terrorist attacks than I think they would probably have communicated that to the U.S. Attorney's office that is handling the case.

Yet the Massachusetts' U.S. Attorney's office announced from virtually the start they would be seeking the death penalty. I would conclude from that either the U.S. Government does not believe executing Tsarnaev will necessarily trigger retaliatory terrorist attacks or, at minimum, does not believe it's something that should influence the decision to seek the death penalty.
 

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