Merged New telepathy test: which number did I write ?

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I remind you that the Membership Agreement says: "Address the argument, not the arguer." (Rule 12). When you tell someone he's crazy, not only do you aggress that person, you even aggress that person in a rather serious way, in my opinion.

I emphatically disagree with your reasoning. Suggesting that someone seek help DOES NOT equate to calling someone crazy. Please stop accusing us of calling you crazy. We are not calling you crazy.
 
Also, I would appreciate that you (or other members here) stop saying "Seek professional assistance" (or other similar things). I suppose this roughly means "Dude, you're crazy". I find that very offensive (especially as I might well be the least crazy member of this forum, as I think I have abundantly demonstrated). I remind you that the Membership Agreement says: "Address the argument, not the arguer." (Rule 12). When you tell someone he's crazy, not only do you aggress that person, you even aggress that person in a rather serious way, in my opinion.


Michel, I would bet no one in this thread, except you, has used the word "crazy." Urging you to seek help to deal with any issues you may be facing is not attacking you.
 
We know for a fact that we cannot hear Michel's thoughts.

We know for a fact that a conviction that other people can hear your thoughts is a common symptom of schizophrenia.

We know for a fact that Michel has been diagnosed with schizophrenia.

After years of these tests we know for a fact that no amount of such tests will ever convince Michel of what the rest of us know for a fact, he will always find ways to design them and to interpret the results which will enable him to maintain his delusion.

All we can do is urge him to seek the help of professionals, even though we know for a fact that he will reject that advice.
 
I'm curious to know how Michel regards the purpose of his tests.

Michel, do you intend the tests to be an investigation into whether telepathy exists, or do you see them purely as a search for undeniable proof that you are right in believing that everyone else can hear your thoughts?

I suppose what I'm asking is: do you ever entertain any doubt at all that everyone can hear what you are thinking?
 
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I suppose what I'm asking is: do you ever entertain any doubt at all that everyone can hear what you are thinking?
Yes sure, I do have doubts sometimes. When I have these doubts, I remember for example that phone call my mother gave me more than 20 years ago, when she said (in French) that "les gens lire dans tes pensées" (people can read your mind). Also, I seem to hear "telepathic voices in my head" (I often talk with them), and various noises coming from outside (car and ambulance horns, even birds), that often seem correlated with my thoughts (or, at least, this is the impression I have). All of this is so strong, telling me there is no telepathy is like telling a fish there is no water in the sea.
I believe I need people's help, to help me overcome these doubts (not necessarily on this forum, perhaps on other forums too, or through other ways). Having the truth recognized and acknowledged may perhaps be hard sometimes for all of us, but I think it's better than collective lie and torture against me through hostile voices in head.
 
..I seem to hear "telepathic voices in my head" (I often talk with them), and various noises coming from outside (car and ambulance horns, even birds), that often seem correlated with my thoughts (or, at least, this is the impression I have). All of this is so strong, telling me there is no telepathy is like telling a fish there is no water in the sea.

When I went into anaphylactic shock I had no way to stop what happened to me.

My tongue swelled-up and went numb, with pin pricks all around my mouth. I could not reverse that.
Breathing was hard, like drawing air through bark. I could not shake that off.
My skin rose in angry rashes; great itching lashes down the left and right. I could not slow it down; I could not make it cease.

When I began to lose consciousness, we got to the doctor in the nick. Epinephrine was injected and I began to return. The symptoms unwound. I surfaced again, to live.

I know for a fact that you, Michel, cannot stop those voices. I could not stop what physically happened to me. You cannot stop what is physically happening to you.

What I did do was go to the doctor. A part of me watched what was happening and remained calm. It arranged events, rapidly, so that there was a car, some help and an informed doctor waiting.

You can do this too. There is no need to accept the water when you are not a fish.
 
When I went into anaphylactic shock I had no way to stop what happened to me.

My tongue swelled-up and went numb, with pin pricks all around my mouth. I could not reverse that.
Breathing was hard, like drawing air through bark. I could not shake that off.
My skin rose in angry rashes; great itching lashes down the left and right. I could not slow it down; I could not make it cease.

When I began to lose consciousness, we got to the doctor in the nick. Epinephrine was injected and I began to return. The symptoms unwound. I surfaced again, to live.

I know for a fact that you, Michel, cannot stop those voices. I could not stop what physically happened to me. You cannot stop what is physically happening to you.

What I did do was go to the doctor. A part of me watched what was happening and remained calm. It arranged events, rapidly, so that there was a car, some help and an informed doctor waiting.

You can do this too. There is no need to accept the water when you are not a fish.
What you went through seems to have been serious, Donn. However, the difference with my case is that allergy is fairly well understood by Modern Medicine, unlike telepathy, which is kind of a "dark area" in modern science. In that respect, in spite of the seriousness of your symptoms, you were perhaps luckier than me.
 
If I recall correctly, in the hay-days of parapsychology research (1970's or so), there were research studies that concluded a test subject might have good days and bad days with respect to testing and that each were indicative of paranormal abilities in the subject, even though the average across all days was indistinguishable from chance.
This is a classic example of failure to recognise a random distribution coupled with confirmation bias.

We intuitively tend to think of random distributions as being 'smooth and even', when they actually have far more clumps and runs and repeats than we expect.

This effect is seen in sports, where players or teams appear to have 'hot' streaks or 'off streaks', which, although they may sometimes be due to changes in performance, are often just random variations in the results (i.e. 'luck').
 
...
We know for a fact that Michel has been diagnosed with schizophrenia.
...
Actually, I don't remember that a doctor, or a psychiatrist ever told me "you have schizophrenia", or "you are a schizophrenic" (now I have to say I don't remember all the things that psychiatrists told me). I do remember though my first visit to a psychiatrist, when I was a graduate student in Physics at the University of Minnesota, in 1985, after I began to have, for the first time in my life, the impression I was "telepathic", that people knew many of my thoughts. It seems to me it happened at the Boynton Health Center. The psychiatrist, an old man with white hair (perhaps an underpaid university doctor) told me angrily "It's a fantasy, it's a fantasy...". Then I saw another psychiatrist, outside of the university, whose name had been given to me by a girl who was, like me, a Physics student, and that psychiatrist never denied that I was "telepathic" (he was friendlier). He did, however, give me Haldol, an antipsychotic medication, he said it was a great medication which had been developed in Belgium (I am from Belgium). I took it, and I found no effect on my telepathic impressions, I wondered if this was just a little sugar, with no psychological effect.
 
Yes sure, I do have doubts sometimes. When I have these doubts, I remember for example that phone call my mother gave me more than 20 years ago, when she said (in French) that "les gens lire dans tes pensées" (people can read your mind). Also, I seem to hear "telepathic voices in my head" (I often talk with them), and various noises coming from outside (car and ambulance horns, even birds), that often seem correlated with my thoughts (or, at least, this is the impression I have). All of this is so strong, telling me there is no telepathy is like telling a fish there is no water in the sea.
I believe I need people's help, to help me overcome these doubts (not necessarily on this forum, perhaps on other forums too, or through other ways). Having the truth recognized and acknowledged may perhaps be hard sometimes for all of us, but I think it's better than collective lie and torture against me through hostile voices in head.

Michel H:

I hadn't fully thought of this aspect before. As you know, I don't think you are telepathic, but I do think that whatever your belief, it is important for you to realize that these voices inside your head, that often torment you with hostile thoughts, are not really "your" thoughts no matter what their origin. If it gives you comfort to believe that you are hearing thoughts by other people, okay. If I believe that the origin is also involuntary, but comes from another source, that difference shouldn't matter to you. What should matter is that these voices are disturbing to you, and that there are ways to help you control these voices and increase your ability to suppress any thoughts that you do not wish to hear. Again, I know that you have had unpleasant experiences in the past, but what can be done now by medical science to help you control these voices, whatever their origin, is much better than before. Give it another try, if you can bring yourself to.
 
However, the difference with my case is that allergy is fairly well understood by Modern Medicine, unlike telepathy..

I recognize that you have no choice, that you are forced to avoid any thought of mental illness, but ... just try it. Try to read what I said as a direct equalitybetween an allergic reaction and some form of physical mental illness.

I was not comparing allergic shock to telepathy. Read that again.

I am comparing allergic shock to schizophrenia.

In that respect, in spite of the seriousness of your symptoms, you were perhaps luckier than me.

Here I agree with you. I am lucky and you are, in my view, suffering.

I simply want you to know that hearing voices in your head is exactly the same as having an allergic shock: it is a signal that something is physically (neurons, chemicals, cells) wrong with your body.

Medicine may not have an answer for you, that is a real truth. On the other hand, it may be able to dampen those voices.

All I can say is, and you can double check via the Internet, that hearing voices in your head is not what most people experience.

Whether it's a gift or a curse, I cannot say. I don't want to be prejudiced. A woman in a wheelchair is disabled, but only in that one avenue. If she denies that she's in a wheelchair, but rather claims to be levitating above the ground all the time, then you can see that there's another factor at work in her mind. To me, you sound like this woman.

I shan't go on. Best to you.
 
What you went through seems to have been serious, Donn. However, the difference with my case is that allergy is fairly well understood by Modern Medicine, unlike telepathy, which is kind of a "dark area" in modern science. In that respect, in spite of the seriousness of your symptoms, you were perhaps luckier than me.


Donn was kind enough to share a scary personal experience of his with you.
A real life one.
I think you should contemplate how your response reads to the rest of us.
He had a real life scary medical issue.
You have an imagined one.

^this is why people urge you to seek help.
Not because you are crazy, but because your brain is having a mental burp.
Nothing to be ashamed of, it can and does happen to millions of people.

Ask yourself this:
How many times over the years have you resurrected this thread to claim you have a new test?
Look at your wording, the explanation of the test.
Look at the responses you got.

For the millionth time, you are not telepathic.
Telepathy does not exist.
No one on this planet can hear your thoughts.

...
An aside @Donn:
" There is no need to accept the water when you are not a fish."

I herby declare that I have officially stolen that phrase ;)
 
He had a real life scary medical issue.
You have an imagined one.

I differ here. I think he's having a very real medical issue. Look, I'm an uneducated twerp, so I don't know anything for a fact, but mental malfunction, of large enough scale, is more than imagined — it's lived and experienced. Least, it seems that way to me.

" There is no need to accept the water when you are not a fish."
I herby declare that I have officially stolen that phrase ;)

Ha. It wrote itself.
:D
 
... I seem to hear "telepathic voices in my head" (I often talk with them), and various noises coming from outside (car and ambulance horns, even birds), that often seem correlated with my thoughts (or, at least, this is the impression I have). All of this is so strong, telling me there is no telepathy is like telling a fish there is no water in the sea.

Hearing voices is actually not uncommon; it's thought that up to 1 in 10 people hear voices at some time or other, and most can ignore them or get along regardless. They're only considered symptoms of an illness when they significantly interfere with quality of life. There's no evidence that these voices are a result of telepathy - all the indications are that they are internally generated, auditory hallucinations.

There are sites online that can give you more information, such as these: How to Cope with Hearing Voices and Hearing Voices. There are also self-help groups for those who find themselves unable to seek medical advice; if you search for 'hearing voices' you should be able to find some in your area.
 
It is perhaps of some interest to mention that proving telepathy does not necessarily require scoring better than chance. If, in a very hostile skeptic environment, participants score consistently less well than chance (this is called "psi-missing" in parapsychology), this may (paradoxically perhaps) prove telepathy.
You have missed the elephant in the room. "Number 1" and "Number 2" are euphemisms for bodily functions and these bodily functions are euphemisms for expressing negative opinions about you or your test. Therefore, they drew responses away from your choice but only because of the coincidence that you didn't choose one of the bodily function numbers.

I don't know if you have any psychic ability or not but not only did your test fail to demonstrate it, it failed to demonstrate that you can count up to three.
 
I differ here. I think he's having a very real medical issue. Look, I'm an uneducated twerp, so I don't know anything for a fact, but mental malfunction, of large enough scale, is more than imagined — it's lived and experienced. Least, it seems that way to me.







Ha. It wrote itself.

:D


I take on board what you said, and apologise for what now seems like an insensitive comment made by myself.
You are correct, I worded it wrongly. :(
 
Sadly, MichelH has wandered over to my thread looking for confirmation of the test he conducted here. Check it out.

Also, vote for me in the Pith Poll. Link is in my sig.
 
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