Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Dan O.]

Based on the evidence and lack of evidence from Stefanoni's lab itself, in terms of procedures and sample handling, there can be no assurance that the DNA profile alleged to be Sollecito's, and as reported as originating from the bra clasp, actually was ever present on the bra clasp. There is evidence of contamination and tampering with the samples in Stefanoni' lab. See:

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/bra-clasp-contamination/

In an earlier post I looked at the timeline for when Raffaele's DNA had been introduced. In that analysis, the only time that was excluded was durring the murder itself. There are clear paths prior to that evening (of which I mentioned 2 or 3). And I mentioned contamination durring transport and analysis in the lab as possibilities.

I've had an opportunity to review the photos and I'll now exclude the transportation phase as a viable contamination opportunity. We saw the clasp sealed in an evidence bag at the crime scene on Devember 18. Stefanoni produced a photo of this same bag containing the clasp and markers "A" and "B" affixed to the outside and testifies that this was just prior to the analysis. The clasp was effectively protected from contamination in the transportation to the lab.

 

[Grinder]

shouldn't go to the dark side but hard to resist - a recent post by the cluelessbystander:

. The Kerchers know better than anyone else what they want and their lawyer Maresca is their authorized spokesperson. They have certainly not disavowed him and he has certainly not let them down. Indeed, like them, he has been dignified, graceful, and articulate throughout this long process.

Showing the body of Meredith in open court after the court had closed sessions earlier to protect Meredith's dignity was certainly dignified, not.

I truly can't imagine a harder road for the Kerchers than the one Maresca guided them down.

 

[Dan O.]

Not having read in detail Balding's work, I am curious as a laymen just how correct the statistical analysis of DNA match profiling actually is. It seems that coming up with credible and reliable odds at this time in history might border on impossible.

For example. As I understand, there are say 20 markers in a set. And we look for the number of matches at each marker. Do statisticians assume that the odds of matching each marker is the same? Or can and do they recognize that the odds of matching certain specific markers are higher and lower at each individual position?

Population studies of each alleles are available. If you do a search for the name of the marker you will find them.

 

[Strozzi]

shouldn't go to the dark side but hard to resist - a recent post by the cluelessbystander:

. The Kerchers know better than anyone else what they want and their lawyer Maresca is their authorized spokesperson. They have certainly not disavowed him and he has certainly not let them down. Indeed, like them, he has been dignified, graceful, and articulate throughout this long process..

Grinder, Maresca's mother wrote that! She works as a bill collector. .

 

[Grinder]

Grinder, Maresca's mother wrote that!

don't think she's quite that old

ETA went to the Meredith Fund on .org but get an error message - guess none of them has been there for awhile.

 

[acbytesla]

as always thanks to the dna junkies (positive sense) for all their work. could someone give us a description of how much the dna on the knife and clasp amounted to? not pico-grams but something everyone could picture like a tenth of a flake of dust or 1/100 of a grain of salt. i don't think the pgp really get how tiny amount of dna was the abundant amount.

That is almost impossible to really do Grinder. How can we relate to something that can only be seen with an atomic microscope? 100 picograms (trillionths of a gram) It's the weight of a single human sperm cell and a E coli cell. 1/10,000,000th the weight of a fruit fly.

Help? It doesn't really help me to imagine that.

 

[acbytesla]

Population studies of each alleles are available. If you do a search for the name of the marker you will find them.

Thank you.

 

[Grinder]

That is almost impossible to really do Grinder. How can we relate to something that can only be seen with an atomic microscope? 100 picograms (trillionths of a gram) It's the weight of a single human sperm cell and a E coli cell. 1/10,000,000th the weight of a fruit fly.

Help? It doesn't really help me to imagine that.

Well there were discussions for years that DNA can't fly even cartoons were produced and maybe a PP or two but for me, knowing that there are 58,500,000 picograms in a grain of salt, makes it clearer that the amounts we are talking about can float in the air.

 

[acbytesla]

Well there were discussions for years that DNA can't fly even cartoons were produced and maybe a PP or two but for me, knowing that there are 58,500,000 picograms in a grain of salt, makes it clearer that the amounts we are talking about can float in the air.

Yea.. of course. If I'm not mistaken..estimates were around a 100 picograms, which is 100 times smaller than a single grain of birch pollen. And given how my car gets covered in green pollen in the spring, I think it is fair to say that DNA could easily be kicked up by a gust of air and float.

 

[anglolawyer]

Well there were discussions for years that DNA can't fly even cartoons were produced and maybe a PP or two but for me, knowing that there are 58,500,000 picograms in a grain of salt, makes it clearer that the amounts we are talking about can float in the air.

A pity you have such a poor memory. I extracted from Dan O. in cross examination some threads back that if the blood cells Stefanoni scraped from the blade were the size of tennis balls, the scratch would be about the size of the Titanic. IOW scale it up.

 

[Numbers]

Well there were discussions for years that DNA can't fly even cartoons were produced and maybe a PP or two but for me, knowing that there are 58,500,000 picograms in a grain of salt, makes it clearer that the amounts we are talking about can float in the air.

Since a number of different viruses and bacteria can float through air (depending on how they are launched, for example, by sneezing), and they are composed of DNA (or RNA, for some viruses) and protein (and other chemical ingredients including RNA, lipids, polysaccharides, etc. for bacteria especially), is should not be surprising that isolated bits of DNA weighing less than a virus can move through the air under certain conditions (such as, for example, applying suction to a specimen tube).

 

[Kauffer]

A pity you have such a poor memory. I extracted from Dan O. in cross examination some threads back that if the blood cells Stefanoni scraped from the blade were the size of tennis balls, the scratch would be about the size of the Titanic. IOW scale it up.

I thought the scratch on the blade turned out to be red herring. No?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Oh I don't know about that....Quintavalle testifying that she DIDN'T buy any bleach, I thought that was relatively strong....certainly better than the idea that she might be 'lucerferina'.

Even Bongiorno seemed to wobble a bit...... She was quite prepared to believe in the logical possibility of guilt, she intimated, if only the prosecution could prove that her client was in fact a dragonfly.

Whatever.

Guy breaks in, rapes and murders girl, leaves his DNA evidence everywhere. Gets caught. Gets a lighter sentence for accusing others of being involved. Nothing but some trace DNA of people who live in/visit the same house is found and you are claiming buying bleach or not buying bleach is significant?

Suit yourself. Satanic rituals must seem so sexy.

 

[acbytesla]

I thought the scratch on the blade turned out to be red herring. No?

No, it was à pink salmon.

 

[komponisto]

as always thanks to the dna junkies (positive sense) for all their work. could someone give us a description of how much the dna on the knife and clasp amounted to? not pico-grams but something everyone could picture like a tenth of a flake of dust or 1/100 of a grain of salt. i don't think the pgp really get how tiny amount of dna was the abundant amount.

LOL - picograms are much smaller than those quantities.

A picogram is a trillionth of a gram. Imagine taking a pen cap and dividing it into a number of parts roughly equal to the number of dollars in the US federal budget.

So more like 1/100,000,000 of a grain of salt. (In the case of the knife -- although if you believe Stefanoni's testimony, it might have been as much as 1/1,000,000, similar to the amount allegedly on the clasp.)

For context, a human cell has a mass of about a nanogram (1000 picograms), and contains about a picogram of DNA. So, we're talking about a small number of individual human cells.

In any case, with rare exceptions, the "pgp" we're talking about here don't base their beliefs on the DNA evidence.

 

[Kauffer]

LOL - picograms are much smaller than those quantities.

A picogram is a trillionth of a gram. Imagine taking a pen cap and dividing it into a number of parts roughly equal to the number of dollars in the US federal budget.

So more like 1/100,000,000 of a grain of salt. (In the case of the knife -- although if you believe Stefanoni's testimony, it might have been as much as 1/1,000,000, similar to the amount allegedly on the clasp.)

In any case, with rare exceptions, the "pgp" we're talking about here don't base their beliefs on the DNA evidence.

By the way, komponisto, aside from your normal fame, you have additional fame having been included by David Balding in the reference section of his paper, noted as the translator of the CandV report. Not sure if you know this.

 

[Kauffer]

Whatever.

Guy breaks in, rapes and murders girl, leaves his DNA evidence everywhere. Gets caught. Gets a lighter sentence for accusing others of being involved. Nothing but some trace DNA of people who live in/visit the same house is found and you are claiming buying bleach or not buying bleach is significant?

Suit yourself. Satanic rituals must seem so sexy.

I think perhaps there's a bit of cultural misconception or whatever. Read my post again and see if you think I was being serious or not.

 

[JREF2010]

shouldn't go to the dark side but hard to resist - a recent post by the cluelessbystander:

. The Kerchers know better than anyone else what they want and their lawyer Maresca is their authorized spokesperson. They have certainly not disavowed him and he has certainly not let them down. Indeed, like them, he has been dignified, graceful, and articulate throughout this long process.

Showing the body of Meredith in open court after the court had closed sessions earlier to protect Meredith's dignity was certainly dignified, not.

I truly can't imagine a harder road for the Kerchers than the one Maresca guided them down.

This is from some translation article:
And you are in contact with Alessi, De Cesare, Trinca…
RG:
Look, I have never been in contact with these people, I will repeat it again, the only way… the only manner in which I was in, since a prison it is what it is and the spaces are what they are, the only way in which I could come in contact with these people I’ve just now described it to you, so… with these people now they’re no longer in Viterbo, I have no way, that is I can’t see how I would have contact with these people, given that I have nothing in common with these persons.
CDV:
You have answered thank you.
CPH:
Counsel Maresca have you any questions?
FM:
No questions.

 

[carbonjam72]

This is from some translation article:
And you are in contact with Alessi, De Cesare, Trinca…
RG:
Look, I have never been in contact with these people, I will repeat it again, the only way… the only manner in which I was in, since a prison it is what it is and the spaces are what they are, the only way in which I could come in contact with these people I’ve just now described it to you, so… with these people now they’re no longer in Viterbo, I have no way, that is I can’t see how I would have contact with these people, given that I have nothing in common with these persons.
CDV:
You have answered thank you.
CPH:
Counsel Maresca have you any questions?
FM:
No questions.

This avatar is really creepy. So just wish you would change it. I'll agree to anything you post, please just don't make me look at "dog" or "professor" or "count Dracula" any more.

 

[acbytesla]

In any case, with rare exceptions, the "pgp" we're talking about here don't base their beliefs on the DNA evidence.

yeah, it was because she turned her phone off because normally she didn't do that.
or that she acted strangely or that she had sex on a train or that she had hung up after 4 seconds of ringing...both of which didn't happen.

I always found their rational for guilt to be lacking. Mired in obtuse logic. They were always arguing why Amanda did this? Or something else? Or extremely rarely, when they managed to switch to Raffaele for something he did. But their issues were ALWAYS insignificant and actually didnt indicate guilty behavior and we're oftentimes false.

What I really never understood was the overwhelming hatred they felt toward Knox that they never had for Raffaele or the very guilty Rudy.