Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Kaosium]

If he had not been convicted of rape or sexual assault, and there is no issue of statute of limitations, it would seem to me not double jeopardy to try him for that crime.

He was charged and tried already for those offenses, along with the thefts.

 

[Kaosium]

He can't have his sentence increased. It looks like he's got a free shot, depending on the wording of the motivations report, to go for trial review. All upside and no downside. So what will the motivation report say about multiple attackers?

Considering that the Sollecito appeal pointed out that some of the 'evidence' of multiple attackers was imaginary (as in it didn't exist) when imported from previous trials, they might be able to dismiss that.

 

[kwill]

Another reason to celebrate:

It will now forever be "wrongfully imprisoned" Amanda Knox. "Wrongfully imprisoned" Raffaele Sollecito.

No one gets to say "convicted murderer" about either of them -- or at least not without looking like a crazy conspiracy theorist.

Amanda speaking at her house in Seattle tonight:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/27/europe/amanda-knox/

 

[moije2]

Is that true in Italy though? That holds true in the US (as I understand it) but why would it elsewhere?

I don't know for sure, but it would make sense that the imposition of the more serious penalties of a criminal conviction would require more proof. But that would be common sense. Silly me. I will wait for someone to confirm or explain otherwise. Again, I would hope that the court's ruling will be dispositive. BTW, is that due in 45 days?

 

[acbytesla]

It wouldn't be double jeopardy, surely, he was never acquitted. If his conviction was annulled, I don't see why he couldn't be re-tried the same way they're re-trying Lundy, but IANAL and all that.

Never happen. His conviction was finalized by the ISC and they won't revisit his case. All of the DNA results could be thrown out and there is still significant evidence of his guilt.

 

[Desert Fox]

Well, there's a cure for that: they can activate their brains.

"They have been convicted twice so it's a bit odd that it should change now."

Not to continue to harp on the Kercher's, but this is just more evidence of the confirmation bias that has kept them from finding closure. I wonder if anyone pointed out to Arline that;

- They were never "convicted" of the crime.
- In-between the two guilty verdicts there was an innocent verdict. Did she really forget that?

Perhaps now that this case is closed the Kercher's will be able to take a fresh look at the evidence and come to realize that it was Guede, and only Guede, who took Meredith from them. For their sake I hope they can.

David Camm was convicted twice but does not mean he was guilty either.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I have to say I am overwhelmed and delighted by the news. Finally the truth has found it's way to the top. I believe that Meredith would be smiling at this announcement, her friends finally cleared of a hideous crime they did not commit.

Congratulation to Raffaele and Amanda. 8 years of torment finally over.

Congratulation to the great supporters who never wavered and through whose research and thoroughness convinced a lot of people of this terrible injustice, including me. If I was ever convicted unfairly, you guys are the ones I'd want in my corner. Really good job.

My thoughts go to the Kercher Family, they lost a daughter to this mess and have been lied to for 8 years by the very people they should have been able to trust. I hope in time that they can find peace and come to an understanding about what truly happened that night.

Rudy, hope you continue to rot in jail for what you did. Not only did you take the life of a young woman who was precious to those that knew her, but your actions have continued to reek havoc on innocent people, something you could have stopped at any time by telling the truth. Instead you choice to sit by and feed the lies. Your actions are truly evil.

To those that still believe they are guilty, I really ask that you explore the evidence with an open mind. There is no conspiracy to free them, and none would make sense, anymore then the murder as the prosecution claimed made sense. Think on it a little. Why would the SC overturn a guilty verdict from a retrial that it itself asked for when it could merely have confirmed the Hellmann verdict of innocent and finished it there and then, Nothing in the circumstance of the case has changed since the previous SC decision, all that this has done is throw further fuel on the fire as to the state of the Italian Justice System as the SC found a verdict it asked for to be categorically unsound and has not just overturned the verdict, but declared them innocent of the crime.

To those that perpetrated this Injustice, I hope that justice will come for you, though I doubt it will.

It's been an interesting ride, and were it not for that fact that this has ruined people's lives it would have been a comical one. I am glad that it's other, and finally with the right result.

 

[This is The End]

Not my problem. Guilty.

Is she still guilty? <Checks Google.....> Yep!

Ouch.

 

[acbytesla]

While there are many guilters that I despise...I don't want to gloat over their present shock and dismay. I don't think most will accept that they were wrong. I know I would never accept with the present evidence that they were guilty . ..ever..ever..ever. So can we really blame them for doing the same? I don't think it is fair to mock them for their shock and dismay. I have always thought they were logically challenged. But they probably come by that disability fairly.

 

[Desert Fox]

While there are many guilters that I despise...I don't want to gloat over their present shock and dismay. I don't think most will accept that they were wrong. I know I would never accept with the present evidence that they were guilty . ..ever..ever..ever. So can we really blame them for doing the same? I don't think it is fair to mock them for their shock and dismay. I have always thought they were logically challenged. But they probably come by that disability fairly.

Education in critical thinking is sadly lacking around the world.

 

[anglolawyer]

While there are many guilters that I despise...I don't want to gloat over their present shock and dismay. I don't think most will accept that they were wrong. I know I would never accept with the present evidence that they were guilty . ..ever..ever..ever. So can we really blame them for doing the same? I don't think it is fair to mock them for their shock and dismay. I have always thought they were logically challenged. But they probably come by that disability fairly.

I don't feel all that indulgent towards a bunch of mostly spiteful, dishonest, deranged weirdos who revel in using terms like 'knife boy', set up web-sites to spew their hate, vilify anyone who disagrees with them and close their minds to reasoned discussion. There are several threads here and at IA where these cases have been discussed in a good spirit on both sides without rancour. If you have to seal yourself off from the world to sustain your warped perspective the eventual collision with reality is going to be painful. The ones who are beyond hope will just extend their conspiracy theory further to absorb the latest reverse (as Machiavelli seems to be doing, I regret to see).

 

[kwill]

While there are many guilters that I despise...I don't want to gloat over their present shock and dismay. I don't think most will accept that they were wrong. I know I would never accept with the present evidence that they were guilty . ..ever..ever..ever. So can we really blame them for doing the same? I don't think it is fair to mock them for their shock and dismay. I have always thought they were logically challenged. But they probably come by that disability fairly.

I would have changed my view of the case in a heartbeat if there were evidence that held up. Like, e.g., Raffaele's semen on that pillowcase. At some point you land on the lack of evidence and realize it means they weren't there for the crime.

Their shock and dismay is the natural outcome of their own inability to confront what the evidence plainly said. Okay, I get that. Not nice to criticize or laugh at failure.

What I don't get and never will is the business of "Knife Boy" and "Brittney."

 

[Bill Williams]

After wearing out three keyboards on this, I am now stuck for something to post.

Can world peace be far behind?

 

[Wildhorses]

Hallelujah! Hallelujah!

I just saw the news on Daily Beast.

I stopped following this case after the travesty in Florence. It hadn't crossed my mind the SC would overturn the verdict. I figured from here on out it was all going to be about extradition and human rights appeals.

I still don't know what happened. I'll figure it out once I get over being OVERJOYED.

Congratulations Amanda and Raff.

Justice prevailed... I can't believe it. After ALL the insanity, I'd given up hope.

Rest in peace, Meredith. You are missed and remembered. I believe some of the guilters meant well, but your memory should never have been tainted by this mess and the lying liars.

Thanks to all the JREF posters who brought clarity to this case.

 

[Sonia]

Maresca quoted by Yummi:



"There is little to comment about. It's a verdict which surprises us and is cause of great grief"

"Meredith's family was not expecting this. They are really very sad"

Now that the case is over, does Maresca walk away with no compensation?

 

[davefoc]

Now that the case is over, does Maresca walk away with no compensation?

I wondered about that as well. My guess is that he has the potential to get some contingency fees on some of the cases still left open and that he can still make a whole lot of coin by either writing a book or cooperating with the writing of a book. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a cut of the profits from Kercher's book.

 

[codyjuneau]

.
All for a


Sleep well all.

Cody
.

 

[Samson]

I would have changed my view of the case in a heartbeat if there were evidence that held up. Like, e.g., Raffaele's semen on that pillowcase. At some point you land on the lack of evidence and realize it means they weren't there for the crime.

Their shock and dismay is the natural outcome of their own inability to confront what the evidence plainly said. Okay, I get that. Not nice to criticize or laugh at failure.

What I don't get and never will is the business of "Knife Boy" and "Brittney."

I doubt many here feel antagonistic towards platonov, I could be wrong, but I think they threw away the mould after his creation. Personally, I hope he comes back and posts. oh and

 

[Strozzi]

Well hello! Good to see you here. I trust you're satisfied with today's outcome.

And of course your point above is well made. Unfortunately, the sad truth is that individuals such as "Yummi" probably don't even have the self-awareness to realise how crazy those sorts of "arguments" sound.

Mach's blind insistence that Raffaele's large kitchen knife matches the bloody knife outline on the bedsheet is one of his more bizarre claims. The falseness of that shows his confirmation-bias, as I am sure he can properly measure with a ruler.

 

[LashL]

Hmmm. Someone on PMF is explaining that he couldn't be convicted for a different offence (the lone killing) on the same facts, or something like that. Is that what you meant?

Did someone ought to tell New Zealand about this? First we convict you of murdering your family at 7.15 pm, but when the Privy Council annuls that verdict on the grounds that you couldn't possibly have done that, we'll try you again on the same facts except we'll now declare you did it at 2.30 am?

Or is there some significant difference I'm not getting?

Guede was convicted in his 'fast track' trial for the same offences. The prosecution cast their lot with him and downplayed his (solo) crimes in hopes of being able to use Guede to convict Ms. Knox and Mr. Sollecito (for Mignini's own twisted reasons), but Guede's convictions are complete and final and it seems to me that the prosecution is stuck with that now that their grander plan did not ultimately work out as they had hoped. Guede's convictions were never overturned on appeal and his convictions were made final with no further rights of appeal quite some time ago, so he will serve out whatever portion of his sentence is left (less good behaviour credits and parole type credits, which should see him released well short of his putative 16 year sentence), and he will not be re-tried for his offences.

It wouldn't be double jeopardy, surely, he was never acquitted. If his conviction was annulled, I don't see why he couldn't be re-tried the same way they're re-trying Lundy, but IANAL and all that.

Guede's convictions will not be annulled. His convictions are final, and there is nobody who would seek to challenge those convictions at this point. Both Guede and the prosecution got what they wanted from those arrangements and Guede's convictions are no longer open to challenge.

I don't think so, he was tried for the sexual aspect and the 'continuance' part.

I suspect this in part is why the Kerchers and their online friends can never embrace the truth: they are in part responsible for Rudy Guede getting off so easy (relatively) because they tried to pursue a theory of the crime which included Raffaele and Amanda and absolved Rudy Guede of much of the blame.

Indeed.

My money says Maresca is looking into a civil suit now. Last guilter breath.....Rita on the other hand is probably getting on a plane with Steph and the secret files.

The civil suits included every member of Ms. Kercher's family as plaintiffs and those civil suits ran concurrently with the criminal trials against Ms. Knox and Mr. Sollecito, so I do not think that there is any basis for any new civil suits to be filed on behalf of the Kercher family.

He was charged and tried already for those offenses, along with the thefts.

Indeed.

How would that work? They just lost the civil part, it ran concurrently with the murder trial and Maresca was their attorney. They can file another one?

I am not an expert in Italian law but I do not see how the Kercher family members can file new civil suits against Ms. Knox and Mr. Sollecito precisely for the reason you've cited; they have already had their civil claims adjudicated concurrently with the criminal trials (a procedure which is ludicrous, in my view, and highly prejudicial to the accused in the criminal proceedings, but that's how they roll in Italy, apparently).

As an aside, the Kercher family members also obtained civil judgments against the actual murderer, Guede, in their civil actions against him. It is doubtful that they will ever collect the millions of euros that Guede was ordered to pay to them since he is judgment-proof at present and probably will be for the foreseeable future, but collecting on civil judgments is often difficult and is always the problem of the successful civil litigant. The Kercher family members will have to do what they can to collect money from him in future if he ever gets a job or acquires assets that they can attach, just like any other civil litigant. I do not expect them to get much, if any, satisfaction of their civil judgments against Guede in the circumstances (which is not particularly unusual).

It should be kept in mind that Maresca has three more suits out there: against the Sollecito family on behalf of the Kerchers and the calunnia charges (against Amanda) representing the police as well as the one filed against Curt Knox and Ms. Mellas.

I suspect that Maresca will have lost much of his appetite for pursuing those actions after today's decision, but I guess we will see in the upcoming months.